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Old 19-09-2004, 07:33 AM
cabaloz
 
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Default Hair/Beard Algae

I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts, swords,
ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12 hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to encourage
the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution and
realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!



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Old 19-09-2004, 10:26 AM
HairyMcLeary
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts,
swords, ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12 hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
encourage the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution
and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs
removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!

I struggled for years trying to rid my tanks of this stuff, but it always
came back. A few Siamese Algae eaters (Chrossocheilus samensis ) and the
problem solved.

Tony


  #3   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 02:04 PM
Paul O.
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts,
swords, ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12 hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
encourage the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution
and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs
removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!
Well, I will take a stab at your problem. I'm not an expert, this just
comes from my own experience. First of all you have about a 35 gallon tank
correct? The lighting seems a little low for the CO2. Not too sure of all
the plants you have but I would go with pressurized CO2 and lots of fast
growing plants with 2.5 to 3.0 watts of light per gallon. I have found for
my set up about 10 hrs. a day is good. What ferts are you using? Amounts
may need to be adjusted for optimum growth. Basically what is required is
patience, tinkering to get everything right, then the algae will go away.
But be carefull it will return when things get out of whack, then it's a
matter of figuering what is out of whack. I don't think you ever really get
rid of algae, you just keep it under control. Hope this helps some and good
luck.

--
Paul O.



  #4   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 05:26 PM
Allyb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You didn't mention what your phosphate levels are. What I've read is that
it is critical to keep the phosphates as low as humanly possible, at which
point the plants will use all that's available because they're more
efficient at using it, and the algae will die off without access to it. I
am having the same problem with beard algae as you. I have very high levels
of phosphates in my well water, and I'm now trying phosphate removal
products.
Allison

"Paul O." wrote in message
om...

"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and

black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested

every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts,
swords, ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12

hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
encourage the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution
and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs
removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!
Well, I will take a stab at your problem. I'm not an expert, this just
comes from my own experience. First of all you have about a 35 gallon

tank
correct? The lighting seems a little low for the CO2. Not too sure of

all
the plants you have but I would go with pressurized CO2 and lots of fast
growing plants with 2.5 to 3.0 watts of light per gallon. I have found

for
my set up about 10 hrs. a day is good. What ferts are you using? Amounts
may need to be adjusted for optimum growth. Basically what is required is
patience, tinkering to get everything right, then the algae will go away.
But be carefull it will return when things get out of whack, then it's a
matter of figuering what is out of whack. I don't think you ever really

get
rid of algae, you just keep it under control. Hope this helps some and

good
luck.

--
Paul O.





  #5   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 05:35 PM
Brian Anderson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I fought with BBA in my low light aquarium for over a year with picking it
off and cutting off leaves etc.
All of my water parameters were fine except my phosphate level was high. I
started adding the phosphate removal sponges to my filter and also bought a
siamese algae eater and eventually all of the BBA dissapeared and
I haven't had a problem with it since. I think it was more the phosphate
than adding the alage eater.
Hope this helps.

Brian A.
"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts,

swords,
ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12 hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to

encourage
the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution

and
realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs

removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!






  #6   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 01:36 AM
cabaloz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I didn't have a Phosphate test kit at the time of posting, but have just
come back from my LFS with a test kit which indicated .5mg/l of phosphate.
I also bought some Zeospeed which is apparently modified zeolite, to suck up
any excess phosphates.
I'm surprised at how low it was and was expecting a much higher reading,
though I have been fasting the fish for the past couple of days and I wonder
now whether I may have been overfeeding them all this time.
At any rate I'll take all of your suggestions on board and see what
develops.
Thanks everyone for your input.


  #7   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 02:43 PM
RedForeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

|| I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
|| encourage the algae.

This is exactly the 'cause' of it... I know... it's hard to believe... but
true...

|| I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach
|| solution and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am
|| desperate.

Yep, I learned that the hard way too... bleach is the only thing that
'really' worked...

|| The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether
|| the dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and
|| needs removal. Does anyone have any views?
||
|| Thanks!

FWIW, I too asked this question about a hundred times... and Tom Barr would
always answer, CO2 2 low... until I learned how to measure my kH and pH to
get my CO2 levels, I had all types of algae... but I learned.... it's
better to have the upper limit than the lower limit... DIY barely puts out
enough to get you to the upper limit... Keep it up and chugging and your
algae might just vanish....

--
| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...


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Old 20-09-2004, 11:11 PM
Paulo
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I ignored the BBA and its gone for already 3 month.

--
Paulo
"RedForeman " wrote in message
...
|| I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
|| encourage the algae.

This is exactly the 'cause' of it... I know... it's hard to believe... but
true...

|| I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach
|| solution and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am
|| desperate.

Yep, I learned that the hard way too... bleach is the only thing that
'really' worked...

|| The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether
|| the dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and
|| needs removal. Does anyone have any views?
||
|| Thanks!

FWIW, I too asked this question about a hundred times... and Tom Barr

would
always answer, CO2 2 low... until I learned how to measure my kH and pH to
get my CO2 levels, I had all types of algae... but I learned.... it's
better to have the upper limit than the lower limit... DIY barely puts out
enough to get you to the upper limit... Keep it up and chugging and your
algae might just vanish....

--
| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...




  #9   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 11:13 PM
Allyb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Red, I wonder if you could clarify something - you initially say that DIY
CO2 is the cause of the algae, and that he was right to turn it off, and
then at the end you say that high CO2 levels are the answer. Do you mean
that the low levels of CO2 produced by DIY causes more algae than no CO2 at
all? - Thanks!


"RedForeman " wrote in message
...
|| I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
|| encourage the algae.

This is exactly the 'cause' of it... I know... it's hard to believe... but
true...

|| I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach
|| solution and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am
|| desperate.

Yep, I learned that the hard way too... bleach is the only thing that
'really' worked...

|| The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether
|| the dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and
|| needs removal. Does anyone have any views?
||
|| Thanks!

FWIW, I too asked this question about a hundred times... and Tom Barr

would
always answer, CO2 2 low... until I learned how to measure my kH and pH to
get my CO2 levels, I had all types of algae... but I learned.... it's
better to have the upper limit than the lower limit... DIY barely puts out
enough to get you to the upper limit... Keep it up and chugging and your
algae might just vanish....

--
| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...




  #10   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 11:22 PM
Allyb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm no expert, but I think .5 is pretty high according the the sears/conlin
method of eradicating algae http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/algae.html , which
is what I'm going by. You should test your tap water. That's where mine
comes from.

"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
I didn't have a Phosphate test kit at the time of posting, but have just
come back from my LFS with a test kit which indicated .5mg/l of phosphate.
I also bought some Zeospeed which is apparently modified zeolite, to suck

up
any excess phosphates.
I'm surprised at how low it was and was expecting a much higher reading,
though I have been fasting the fish for the past couple of days and I

wonder
now whether I may have been overfeeding them all this time.
At any rate I'll take all of your suggestions on board and see what
develops.
Thanks everyone for your input.






  #11   Report Post  
Old 21-09-2004, 07:43 AM
Happy'Cam'per
 
Posts: n/a
Default


With DIY CO2 it fluctuates too much, very difficult to maintain stable
levels throughout the ENTIRE day. Ally, you need to measure your KH and PH
values to determine how much co2 is getting into the water. The ideal level
would be somewhere between 25-30ppm CO2. This is quite difficult to achieve
without a ph controller etc. Do a search on Google for Chuck Gadd's website,
he has some info that might make for sense to you.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Allyb" wrote in message
...
Red, I wonder if you could clarify something - you initially say that DIY
CO2 is the cause of the algae, and that he was right to turn it off, and
then at the end you say that high CO2 levels are the answer. Do you mean
that the low levels of CO2 produced by DIY causes more algae than no CO2

at
all? - Thanks!


"RedForeman " wrote in message
...
|| I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
|| encourage the algae.

This is exactly the 'cause' of it... I know... it's hard to believe...

but
true...

|| I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach
|| solution and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am
|| desperate.

Yep, I learned that the hard way too... bleach is the only thing that
'really' worked...

|| The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether
|| the dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and
|| needs removal. Does anyone have any views?
||
|| Thanks!

FWIW, I too asked this question about a hundred times... and Tom Barr

would
always answer, CO2 2 low... until I learned how to measure my kH and pH

to
get my CO2 levels, I had all types of algae... but I learned.... it's
better to have the upper limit than the lower limit... DIY barely puts

out
enough to get you to the upper limit... Keep it up and chugging and your
algae might just vanish....

--
| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...






  #12   Report Post  
Old 21-09-2004, 11:27 AM
Dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 06:33:16 GMT, "cabaloz"
wrote:

I've been fighting a losing battle with hair/beard on my plants and black
brush algae on a piece of driftwood.
Tank is 130 litres, my nitrates are always within 5-10 mg/l, tested every
2-3 days, regular (every 7 days) 25% water changes, thorough and deep
vacuuming of the substrate and reasonably well planted with crypts, swords,
ludwegia, bacopa, elodea, java fern and dwarf anubia.
Filters are a 1000 l/hr canister filter and a 700 l/hr internal.
Lighting is a 30watt bio-lux and a 20watt bio-lux on for a timer 12 hours
per day
I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to encourage
the algae.
I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach solution and
realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I am desperate.
The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is whether the
dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the leaves and needs removal.
Does anyone have any views?

Thanks!

I got back into the fishy life about 2 years ago by buying a 75 gallon
tank, a few plants and 6 starter fish. All went well and I bought
more fish and plants. About 6 months later I noticed black strings
growing from plants, ornaments, even gravel. I tried lots of
remedies, but finally decided I had the wrong plants for my low light
situation. I ordered a package of mixed low light plants. I pulled
out all plants with hair growth. Removed all gravel with hair,
cleaned the ornaments with bleach and put in the new low light plants.
I also added 6 Siamese Algae Eaters. The combination worked. It is
over a year since the Hair problem. My tank is has the bottom covered
with plant growth, not algae.

dick
  #13   Report Post  
Old 21-09-2004, 02:37 PM
RedForeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

|| Red, I wonder if you could clarify something - you initially say
|| that DIY CO2 is the cause of the algae, and that he was right to
|| turn it off, and then at the end you say that high CO2 levels are
|| the answer. Do you mean that the low levels of CO2 produced by DIY
|| causes more algae than no CO2 at all? - Thanks!

Ok, I never said DIY is the cause... simply, it doesn't produce enough to
matter in the first place... by that, the 'lack' of it, can be attributed to
the DIY...

What I meant is this, DIY fluctuates from 5ppm to 25ppm in each batch...
that fluctuation is actually feeding most algaes... versus a press. system,
pumping out 25ppm consistently, 24/7/180(I get 6months out of mine) and that
will help stand off most algaes...

|| "RedForeman " wrote in message
|| ...
||||| I was using DIY CO2, but have disconnected it as it only seems to
||||| encourage the algae.
|||
||| This is exactly the 'cause' of it... I know... it's hard to
||| believe... but true...
|||
||||| I have been reading about treating the plants using a 5% bleach
||||| solution and realise the trauma this must cause the plant, but I
||||| am desperate.
|||
||| Yep, I learned that the hard way too... bleach is the only thing
||| that 'really' worked...
|||
||||| The only thing I haven't been able to find on the subject is
||||| whether the dead algae falls off or whether it persists on the
||||| leaves and needs removal. Does anyone have any views?
|||||
||||| Thanks!
|||
||| FWIW, I too asked this question about a hundred times... and Tom
||| Barr would always answer, CO2 2 low... until I learned how to
||| measure my kH and pH to get my CO2 levels, I had all types of
||| algae... but I learned.... it's better to have the upper limit
||| than the lower limit... DIY barely puts out enough to get you to
||| the upper limit... Keep it up and chugging and your algae might
||| just vanish....
|||
||| --
|||| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike
|||| streetfighter!!! ==========================
|||| 2003 TRX450ES
|||| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
|||| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
|||| ==========================
|||| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
||||| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
|||| for any questions you may have....
|||| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...

--
| RedForeman fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| `,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
| ((((`..`..`.. (((( `. , .`.. ((((
|
for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...


  #14   Report Post  
Old 21-09-2004, 06:50 PM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...

With DIY CO2 it fluctuates too much, very difficult to maintain stable
levels throughout the ENTIRE day. Ally, you need to measure your KH and PH
values to determine how much co2 is getting into the water. The ideal

level
would be somewhere between 25-30ppm CO2. This is quite difficult to

achieve
without a ph controller etc. Do a search on Google for Chuck Gadd's

website,
he has some info that might make for sense to you.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


exactly, however keeping my CO2 in the 25 -30 PPM with pressurized injected
was as simple as increasing my bubble rate until I reached the desired level
and then leaving it there. Minor fluctuations from lights on to lights out
but it is important to maintain the correct levels all day so measure your
output morning , noon and just before lights out and adjust your CO2 to keep
it in that desired level all day. I have had BBA in my tank and from my
experience once you have it then it is there until you break down the tank
and bleach everything/. You can however control it to minimal levels by
pruning anything that shows signs of it and doing a 19-1 bleach dip on other
plants. I have done this with all kinds of plants with minimal loss.

Rick


  #15   Report Post  
Old 21-09-2004, 10:23 PM
cabaloz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks everyone for your most valuable input.
I'm thinking Red may have the answer here, the CO2 levels always fluctuated,
and the low light plants grew in fits and starts.
Since disconnecting the CO2 and adding the zeospeed to the canister, my
phosphate levels have dropped significantly. I'm using the Hagen Nutrifin
test kit and this morning it's extremely difficult to detect any colour in
the sample, it just appears slightly milky.
The black brush and beard algae are turning very pale and I'm now wondering
if this is possibly a sign of their imminent demise?
Assuming it is, does anyone know if it will slowly decay and dissapear or is
it likely to remain, kind of like a dried arrangement?

Thanks!




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