#1   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 03:08 AM
Brian S.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Co2 Dissolving in Water

OK, another topic on Co2.

So, I have 2, 3-liter bottles cooking up the good ole yeast fermenting
sugar.

I have both connected to a T-connector and then the line goes into a
plastic, rectangular bell container that comes with Jungle's Co2 Fizz
Factory.

The instructions on the Fizz Factory says to submerge the bell container
just below the level of the water. However, I got to thinking, that by
possibly putting it further down in the water, say a few inches from the
bottom, that the water pressure would be greater and cause the Co2 to
dissolve quicker.

But, it doesn't appear to be working. Both the 3-liter bottles are on their
last leg and need to be energized, but I am only getting about one bubble
per 10 seconds into the bell container. When I empty the bell container
from all built-up Co2, the next day the bell container is almost full again,
like it is not dissolving into the water.

So, what do you all think? Would it be best to put the holding unit just
below the water level, or further down in the tank?

My plants have been 'sleeping' lately and haven't been growing at all, but,
that could also be due to the fact I changed from gravel to sand recently
too.

Brian S.



  #2   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 04:14 AM
Nitesbane
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Brian S." wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
OK, another topic on Co2.

So, I have 2, 3-liter bottles cooking up the good ole yeast fermenting
sugar.

I have both connected to a T-connector and then the line goes into a
plastic, rectangular bell container that comes with Jungle's Co2 Fizz
Factory.

The instructions on the Fizz Factory says to submerge the bell container
just below the level of the water. However, I got to thinking, that by
possibly putting it further down in the water, say a few inches from the
bottom, that the water pressure would be greater and cause the Co2 to
dissolve quicker.

But, it doesn't appear to be working. Both the 3-liter bottles are on

their
last leg and need to be energized, but I am only getting about one bubble
per 10 seconds into the bell container. When I empty the bell container
from all built-up Co2, the next day the bell container is almost full

again,
like it is not dissolving into the water.

So, what do you all think? Would it be best to put the holding unit just
below the water level, or further down in the tank?


The bell should be filled with gas. As long as there aren't any bubbles
coming out of the bell, that means all of your CO2 is being dissolved. I
don't think placing it in a different spot in the tank would have any effect
either way.


  #3   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 04:23 AM
David Erickson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

....so I guess you *do* know about this news group, eh Brian? ;^)

I tried a similar kind of CO2 injection system in my tank. I have gotten
best results with a small CO2-filled pressure tank and a solenoid-controlled
regulator. I have had excellent luck with a product called the "CO2 Power
Reactor" to dispense the CO2. See http://www.azgardens.com/newCO22.php and
http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_27.html It operates on the same
timer as the CO2 pressure tank's solenoid, and I run them both *only when
the lights are on*.

As I mentioned before, I use sera florena liquid plant fertilizer. My
substrate is also sand, specifically, "Filter Media" from Tec Minerals of
Eagle Lake, TX. The bags say, "For above ground and in-ground pools with
sand filter systems."

I have found that the most important aspects of a successful planted tank
are

(1) a decent substrate, which it sounds like you have,

(2) regular, complete fertilization, and sera florena has worked well for
me,

(3) CO2 as described above (check the pH either with a meter or a test
kit),

(4) proper water hardness, which you must also monitor (see
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/), and of course,

(5) adequate lighting. I use a set of 5000K and 6400K fluorescents that
turn on and off in a cascading fashion to try to imitate a dawn-to-dusk
cycle. This probably pleases me more than the plants and fish!

Apologies to those of you who find my descriptions above to be too
simplistic.

Best of luck to you Brian,

David


"Brian S." wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
OK, another topic on Co2.

So, I have 2, 3-liter bottles cooking up the good ole yeast fermenting
sugar.

I have both connected to a T-connector and then the line goes into a
plastic, rectangular bell container that comes with Jungle's Co2 Fizz
Factory.

The instructions on the Fizz Factory says to submerge the bell container
just below the level of the water. However, I got to thinking, that by
possibly putting it further down in the water, say a few inches from the
bottom, that the water pressure would be greater and cause the Co2 to
dissolve quicker.

But, it doesn't appear to be working. Both the 3-liter bottles are on

their
last leg and need to be energized, but I am only getting about one bubble
per 10 seconds into the bell container. When I empty the bell container
from all built-up Co2, the next day the bell container is almost full

again,
like it is not dissolving into the water.

So, what do you all think? Would it be best to put the holding unit just
below the water level, or further down in the tank?

My plants have been 'sleeping' lately and haven't been growing at all,

but,
that could also be due to the fact I changed from gravel to sand recently
too.

Brian S.



  #4   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 06:01 AM
Brian S.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info. I currently have a 65 watt compact fluorescent light
which has a 10,000K and 460nm Actinic side to it.

Since I used this in my 29 gallon, I have it sitting on top of my 55 gallon
right now, but will be getting the 130 watt 48" light tomorrow by UPS.

Regarding fertilizer; I never was much one for wanting to fertilize plants.
I was hoping I could get away without using fertilizer because it is already
pretty costly to keep this tank up and running. I haven't used fertilizer
before and my plants really seem to do good, but only lately they have
really slowed down. That is why I didn't know if it was because I am using
sand now instead of rock (harder for the plants to get nutrients since
everything stays on top of the sand).

I did go home on my break a little bit ago. When I left, the bell was about
half-full with Co2. When there on my break, it had reduced to about 1/4 so
it does seem to be taking it in.

I think I found the reason why my Co2 isn't making too much.. and it is
because I keep my house at about 68 degrees (heating is expensive). Because
it is cool in the house, the yeast isn't producing much at all. I placed
both bottles in a gallon bucket filled with really hot water, and the rate
of bubbles went to about two per second. So, I just need to get a big
container (like my 10 gallon tank sitting around), fill it with water, and
put a cheapo heater on it.

Brian S.

"David Erickson" wrote in message
...
...so I guess you *do* know about this news group, eh Brian? ;^)

I tried a similar kind of CO2 injection system in my tank. I have gotten
best results with a small CO2-filled pressure tank and a

solenoid-controlled
regulator. I have had excellent luck with a product called the "CO2 Power
Reactor" to dispense the CO2. See http://www.azgardens.com/newCO22.php

and
http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_27.html It operates on the same
timer as the CO2 pressure tank's solenoid, and I run them both *only when
the lights are on*.

As I mentioned before, I use sera florena liquid plant fertilizer. My
substrate is also sand, specifically, "Filter Media" from Tec Minerals of
Eagle Lake, TX. The bags say, "For above ground and in-ground pools with
sand filter systems."

I have found that the most important aspects of a successful planted tank
are

(1) a decent substrate, which it sounds like you have,

(2) regular, complete fertilization, and sera florena has worked well for
me,

(3) CO2 as described above (check the pH either with a meter or a test
kit),

(4) proper water hardness, which you must also monitor (see
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/), and of course,

(5) adequate lighting. I use a set of 5000K and 6400K fluorescents that
turn on and off in a cascading fashion to try to imitate a dawn-to-dusk
cycle. This probably pleases me more than the plants and fish!

Apologies to those of you who find my descriptions above to be too
simplistic.

Best of luck to you Brian,

David


"Brian S." wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
OK, another topic on Co2.

So, I have 2, 3-liter bottles cooking up the good ole yeast fermenting
sugar.

I have both connected to a T-connector and then the line goes into a
plastic, rectangular bell container that comes with Jungle's Co2 Fizz
Factory.

The instructions on the Fizz Factory says to submerge the bell container
just below the level of the water. However, I got to thinking, that by
possibly putting it further down in the water, say a few inches from the
bottom, that the water pressure would be greater and cause the Co2 to
dissolve quicker.

But, it doesn't appear to be working. Both the 3-liter bottles are on

their
last leg and need to be energized, but I am only getting about one bubbl

e
per 10 seconds into the bell container. When I empty the bell container
from all built-up Co2, the next day the bell container is almost full

again,
like it is not dissolving into the water.

So, what do you all think? Would it be best to put the holding unit

just
below the water level, or further down in the tank?

My plants have been 'sleeping' lately and haven't been growing at all,

but,
that could also be due to the fact I changed from gravel to sand

recently
too.

Brian S.





  #5   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 01:28 PM
www.Fish-Forums.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

For a system like that it is best to have a flow ov water underneath
the bell. This will help some with dissapation.


Marc
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
Want to win a FREE new co2 system or a lighting system check out our
forum for our newest contest coming up

http://www.fish-forums.com

Http://www.aquatic-store.com


On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:08:56 GMT, "Brian S."
wrote:

OK, another topic on Co2.

So, I have 2, 3-liter bottles cooking up the good ole yeast fermenting
sugar.

I have both connected to a T-connector and then the line goes into a
plastic, rectangular bell container that comes with Jungle's Co2 Fizz
Factory.

The instructions on the Fizz Factory says to submerge the bell container
just below the level of the water. However, I got to thinking, that by
possibly putting it further down in the water, say a few inches from the
bottom, that the water pressure would be greater and cause the Co2 to
dissolve quicker.

But, it doesn't appear to be working. Both the 3-liter bottles are on their
last leg and need to be energized, but I am only getting about one bubble
per 10 seconds into the bell container. When I empty the bell container
from all built-up Co2, the next day the bell container is almost full again,
like it is not dissolving into the water.

So, what do you all think? Would it be best to put the holding unit just
below the water level, or further down in the tank?

My plants have been 'sleeping' lately and haven't been growing at all, but,
that could also be due to the fact I changed from gravel to sand recently
too.

Brian S.




  #6   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 04:24 PM
kush
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Brian S." wrote in message news:[email protected]_s52...
Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info. I currently have a 65 watt compact fluorescent light
which has a 10,000K and 460nm Actinic side to it.

Since I used this in my 29 gallon, I have it sitting on top of my 55 gallon
right now, but will be getting the 130 watt 48" light tomorrow by UPS.

Regarding fertilizer; I never was much one for wanting to fertilize plants.
I was hoping I could get away without using fertilizer because it is already
pretty costly to keep this tank up and running. I haven't used fertilizer
before and my plants really seem to do good, but only lately they have
really slowed down. That is why I didn't know if it was because I am using
sand now instead of rock (harder for the plants to get nutrients since
everything stays on top of the sand).

I did go home on my break a little bit ago. When I left, the bell was about
half-full with Co2. When there on my break, it had reduced to about 1/4 so
it does seem to be taking it in.

I think I found the reason why my Co2 isn't making too much.. and it is
because I keep my house at about 68 degrees (heating is expensive). Because
it is cool in the house, the yeast isn't producing much at all. I placed
both bottles in a gallon bucket filled with really hot water, and the rate
of bubbles went to about two per second. So, I just need to get a big
container (like my 10 gallon tank sitting around), fill it with water, and
put a cheapo heater on it.

Brian S.


Two ideas.

First, I put my soda bottles on top of or just behind the light hood.
The lights keep the yeasties warm and happy during the daytime and, at
night when the lights are out, and the plants don't need the CO2,
bubble production slows down again.

Second, if you haven't already, position your diffusor near the filter
output or somewhere there is a strong flow of water across the bottom
of the bell.

kush
  #7   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 05:32 PM
Brian S.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Great ideas.

I bought a small 5-15 gallon 50 watt heater last night and a little
container. I filled the container with water, put both of the bottles in
the container, and then have the heater set to about 72-73 degrees. I put
it on the same timer as my lights so it will start warming the water when
the lights come on and stop when the lights go off.

Don't think I can do the idea about putting the bell under a water flow. I
have the hanging filters (two of them on my 55 gallon) and they both push
the water in from the top of the water. There is a lot of water movement at
the top of the water, I just hope that it doesn't take out too much Co2 like
some others say it does. I can always shut one of the filters off and it
won't make too big of a difference. The main reason I put the second filter
is was so that it would circulate the water closer to the bell in hopes of
that working.

I think what the problem was, is the bell was filled with oxygen that was
pushed out of the bottles upon the cycle's start. That is why it sat in
there forever and wouldn't go anywhere.

Brian S.

"kush" wrote in message
m...
"Brian S." wrote in message

news:[email protected]_s52...
Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info. I currently have a 65 watt compact fluorescent

light
which has a 10,000K and 460nm Actinic side to it.

Since I used this in my 29 gallon, I have it sitting on top of my 55

gallon
right now, but will be getting the 130 watt 48" light tomorrow by UPS.

Regarding fertilizer; I never was much one for wanting to fertilize

plants.
I was hoping I could get away without using fertilizer because it is

already
pretty costly to keep this tank up and running. I haven't used

fertilizer
before and my plants really seem to do good, but only lately they have
really slowed down. That is why I didn't know if it was because I am

using
sand now instead of rock (harder for the plants to get nutrients since
everything stays on top of the sand).

I did go home on my break a little bit ago. When I left, the bell was

about
half-full with Co2. When there on my break, it had reduced to about 1/4

so
it does seem to be taking it in.

I think I found the reason why my Co2 isn't making too much.. and it is
because I keep my house at about 68 degrees (heating is expensive).

Because
it is cool in the house, the yeast isn't producing much at all. I

placed
both bottles in a gallon bucket filled with really hot water, and the

rate
of bubbles went to about two per second. So, I just need to get a big
container (like my 10 gallon tank sitting around), fill it with water,

and
put a cheapo heater on it.

Brian S.


Two ideas.

First, I put my soda bottles on top of or just behind the light hood.
The lights keep the yeasties warm and happy during the daytime and, at
night when the lights are out, and the plants don't need the CO2,
bubble production slows down again.

Second, if you haven't already, position your diffusor near the filter
output or somewhere there is a strong flow of water across the bottom
of the bell.

kush



  #8   Report Post  
Old 11-11-2004, 06:19 PM
David Erickson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Greetings Brian,

You're welcome. It sounds like your new light system will help.

Perhaps you're right that the sand has contributed to your plants' malaise -
I don't know. Consider getting a bottle of the sera florena to experiment
with. I think you will find that it is helpful.

Great idea to heat the yeasty beasties! Really good creativity.

Keep us posted.

David

"Brian S." wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info. I currently have a 65 watt compact fluorescent light
which has a 10,000K and 460nm Actinic side to it.

Since I used this in my 29 gallon, I have it sitting on top of my 55

gallon
right now, but will be getting the 130 watt 48" light tomorrow by UPS.

Regarding fertilizer; I never was much one for wanting to fertilize

plants.
I was hoping I could get away without using fertilizer because it is

already
pretty costly to keep this tank up and running. I haven't used fertilizer
before and my plants really seem to do good, but only lately they have
really slowed down. That is why I didn't know if it was because I am

using
sand now instead of rock (harder for the plants to get nutrients since
everything stays on top of the sand).

I did go home on my break a little bit ago. When I left, the bell was

about
half-full with Co2. When there on my break, it had reduced to about 1/4

so
it does seem to be taking it in.

I think I found the reason why my Co2 isn't making too much.. and it is
because I keep my house at about 68 degrees (heating is expensive).

Because
it is cool in the house, the yeast isn't producing much at all. I placed
both bottles in a gallon bucket filled with really hot water, and the rate
of bubbles went to about two per second. So, I just need to get a big
container (like my 10 gallon tank sitting around), fill it with water, and
put a cheapo heater on it.

Brian S.



  #9   Report Post  
Old 12-11-2004, 05:57 AM
Brian S.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Dave,

By doing this idea, it dramatically made a difference!

Instead of a bubble every 30 seconds or so, I now get a bubble of Co2 about
every five seconds. Quite a big increase, all because of the temperature!

I set the temp so that it wouldn't put out too much Co2 where it would
overflow the bell and leak out; trying to conserve and make the mixture last
longer. The bell container gets pretty close to filling up and then really
slows down and gets sucked into the water.

I've also noticed that it seems like the more Co2 in the bell container, the
longer it takes to go down a certain amount. When I only have, say 1/2 inch
of Co2 built up, it tends to dissipate into the water fairly quickly.
However, when I have 2 inches of Co2 built up, it doesn't seem to move at
all.

I would think that being I have a 55 gallon tank, it would dissipate quicker
than it did in my 29 gallon, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I would
understand if the water was filled with Co2, but I don't believe it is (no
testing kit to tell).

Anyways, the heating seemed to have fixed the problem with output, but still
experimenting with the dissolving issue.

Brian S.

"David Erickson" wrote in message
...
Greetings Brian,

You're welcome. It sounds like your new light system will help.

Perhaps you're right that the sand has contributed to your plants'

malaise -
I don't know. Consider getting a bottle of the sera florena to experiment
with. I think you will find that it is helpful.

Great idea to heat the yeasty beasties! Really good creativity.

Keep us posted.

David

"Brian S." wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info. I currently have a 65 watt compact fluorescent

light
which has a 10,000K and 460nm Actinic side to it.

Since I used this in my 29 gallon, I have it sitting on top of my 55

gallon
right now, but will be getting the 130 watt 48" light tomorrow by UPS.

Regarding fertilizer; I never was much one for wanting to fertilize

plants.
I was hoping I could get away without using fertilizer because it is

already
pretty costly to keep this tank up and running. I haven't used

fertilizer
before and my plants really seem to do good, but only lately they have
really slowed down. That is why I didn't know if it was because I am

using
sand now instead of rock (harder for the plants to get nutrients since
everything stays on top of the sand).

I did go home on my break a little bit ago. When I left, the bell was

about
half-full with Co2. When there on my break, it had reduced to about 1/4

so
it does seem to be taking it in.

I think I found the reason why my Co2 isn't making too much.. and it is
because I keep my house at about 68 degrees (heating is expensive).

Because
it is cool in the house, the yeast isn't producing much at all. I

placed
both bottles in a gallon bucket filled with really hot water, and the

rate
of bubbles went to about two per second. So, I just need to get a big
container (like my 10 gallon tank sitting around), fill it with water,

and
put a cheapo heater on it.

Brian S.







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