In article ,
Margolis wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message ...

Yeah, really.

You must have way more algae than it can handle then. If you write to
Greg,
CEO of Sea-Chem and ask him if it's safe to grow Cladophoa he'll tell
you no, it'll kill it. But US Government regulations prevent him from
claiming it's an algicide.



Of course seachem is going to say algae won't grow with it, they make the
product. I go by experience.

Google says there's a lot of poeple that use it and have no algae.

Algae grows better in my 20 with excel than it does in my 75 without. The
oto's and bushy nose plecos love it though, so that's okay.

That's hardly evidenece. I have a buhc of tanks and some are an unholy
green mess and others are sparkling crystal clean. They all get the same
regiment. In other workds, without any controls, nothing has been shown
let alone proved.

--
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It proves that algae grows well with excel.

If a product is good for plants it is going to be good for algae which are
just small plants. If a product is bad for algae it is going to be bad for
plants. It is pretty simple really ;op

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

In article ,
Margolis wrote:
It proves that algae grows well with excel.

If a product is good for plants it is going to be good for algae which are
just small plants. If a product is bad for algae it is going to be bad for
plants. It is pretty simple really ;op

Both are factually incorrect.

One anectodal unctrolled setup does not prove the former and
peroxide disproves the latter.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

On 2005-01-13, Margolis wrote:

Algae grows better in my 20 with excel than it does in my 75 without. The
oto's and bushy nose plecos love it though, so that's okay.


Not defending Seachem, but you may have conditions better suited for
growing algae in your 20 than in your 75 that has nothing to do with
Excel.


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

On 2005-01-14, Margolis wrote:
It proves that algae grows well with excel.


Whoa, you have to be a bit more scientific than that before you go
around claiming proof.

If a product is good for plants it is going to be good for algae which are
just small plants. If a product is bad for algae it is going to be bad for
plants. It is pretty simple really ;op


Technically, algae are not plants as they do not have leaves, roots, or
flowers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

"js1" wrote in message
...

Not defending Seachem, but you may have conditions better suited for
growing algae in your 20 than in your 75 that has nothing to do with
Excel.




that may be, but if excel is an algicide it should be killing the algae,
regardless of the conditions. Instead the algae is healthy.


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

In article ,
Margolis wrote:
"js1" wrote in message
...

Not defending Seachem, but you may have conditions better suited for
growing algae in your 20 than in your 75 that has nothing to do with
Excel.




that may be, but if excel is an algicide it should be killing the algae,
regardless of the conditions. Instead the algae is healthy.

Absolutley not.

Excel is not called an algicide because it hasn't passed government
tests and qualificartion as an algicide. None the less in years
of beta tests at Sea CHem they found it inhibits alage grown and
your one tank does not change that fact.

Aquarium Pharmecuticals "Algae Fix" is a government recognized honest
to god real algicide and won't kill some alage under some conditions
either.

Making a blanket statement from a sample of one is unsound.




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

On 2005-01-15, Richard wrote:

Making a blanket statement from a sample of one is unsound.


Nah, it's called usenet! ;-)


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

"js1" wrote in message
...
On 2005-01-14, Margolis wrote:


Technically, algae are not plants as they do not have leaves, roots, or
flowers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae




did you go to that site you linked to? It say's algae are plants


here is the opening sentence on that page:

"The algae (singular is alga) comprise several different groups of living
things that produce energy through photosynthesis. They are generally
regarded as simple plants, and some are related to the higher plants "

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Richard" wrote in message ...
that may be, but if excel is an algicide it should be killing the algae,


Absolutley not.



absolutely yes. algicides kill algae, that is the definition of algicide.

do you work for seachem? Me saying it doesn't kill algae certainly has
gotten you worked up.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

In article ,
Margolis wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message ...
that may be, but if excel is an algicide it should be killing the algae,


Absolutley not.



absolutely yes. algicides kill algae, that is the definition of algicide.

do you work for seachem? Me saying it doesn't kill algae certainly has
gotten you worked up.

Work?

Well, I don't care about your one tank. The rest of the world, as a quick
check on google will show, has results consistant with Sea Chem's claims.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

On 2005-01-16, Margolis wrote:
"js1" wrote in message

here is the opening sentence on that page:

"The algae (singular is alga) comprise several different groups of living
things that produce energy through photosynthesis. They are generally
regarded as simple plants, and some are related to the higher plants "


You must have missed the part where it says, "All algae lack true
leaves, roots, flowers, and other tissue structures found in higher
plants."


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

"js1" wrote in message
...

You must have missed the part where it says, "All algae lack true
leaves, roots, flowers, and other tissue structures found in higher
plants."




they may lack those, but they are still simple plants. They lack the
structure of HIGHER plants, but that doesn't mean that they are not plants

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Your world must be very small. The only references I found about excel
being an algicide (algaecide) on google were posts you made. Nothing else.
No research by seachem anywhere indicating this is an algaecide. There is
no government regulation preventing seachem from calling an algicide and
algicide. There are regulations though that prevent companies from making
false claims.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

On 2005-01-17, Margolis wrote:
Your world must be very small. The only references I found about excel
being an algicide (algaecide) on google were posts you made. Nothing else.
No research by seachem anywhere indicating this is an algaecide. There is
no government regulation preventing seachem from calling an algicide and
algicide. There are regulations though that prevent companies from making
false claims.


You're the only person who has claimed anything absolutely.

http://www.aquabotanic.com/carbon.html

Can algae feed on Excel?
No. I'm sure this may raise a few eyebrows ;-) since at face value
this would be a reasonable expectation. But, for reasons Uncle Sam
won't let us discuss, all I can say is that algae can't feed on Excel
and I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to deduce why this
is the case (big picture folks, no chemistry involved ;-).

Gregory Morin, Ph.D. ~~~~~~~Research Director~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc. www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM

Notice no claims of algicide by Seachem. Though, from the above
comments, it's not unreasonable to infer that perhaps Excel is at
some level an algicide, but Seachem is not willing, or not allowed, to
make sucha a claim. You are the one who, on anectdotal evidence,
claims absolutely that Excel is not an algicide and is in fact good to
grow algae with. Excel's primary claim has been that it can be a source
of carbon for plants:

http://www.aquabotanic.com/carbon.html

Does Excel's added carbon work enough to provide plants what they
need without the need of CO2 injection?
That depends on your definition of need ;-) We have been using the
product here for several years (during the testing phase) and all of
our planted tanks have been doing extraordinarily well. We do not use
any CO2 injection. We usually have to cut and trim every few weeks or
so. However, if your goal is to have the kind of growth where you
would need to cut and trim weekly (because the plants grow out of the
tank every week) then you're not going to see that with Flourish
Excel as the sole carbon source. But using Flourish Excel as the sole
source of carbon is certainly not going to leave the plants lacking
for carbon by any stretch.

Perhaps if you had given the water parameters of the tank in which algae
is growing well for you, there'd be a more interesting argument about
algae growth and how Excel may or may not be affecting it, not about your
flawed syllogism.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman