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Old 15-01-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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Simply registering a user name and password cost absolutely *nothing*.
Just like here...........is Goggle is unethical as well?

So what part of "free" bothers you precisely?
I said it was free, no mistake.

You cannot do many functions on sites without getting a user
name/password.

I'm trying to help you, not make a buck off of you, most folks waste
plenty more than the fee I charge on snake oil and other things, but
some like to do that.Many pay 20-30$ a year for a mag subscription,
they are lucky if they see one decent plant article.

If you search around the web over the years you will see a long history
of me giving information for free and doing above and beyond to help
perfect strangers.You might want to check things out a bit before
assuming the negative intent of others.

I do not expect anything in return except that you help someone else in
the same way.Those that are interested, will get involved.

Here's an excerp from Mike, past editor of TFH(used with his
premission) about "free" advice on the net.

by Mike Reed
Past Editor of TFH Magazine

It's amazing how treacherous the Internet can be if you are looking for
advice about keeping tropical fishes. Every now and then, I used to
visit the forums and discussion groups on "the net" and even
participated in them briefly. What I saw was that in with the simple,
sometimes good advice was an amazing amount of outdated advice and some
downright bad advice being given to all who would read and trust it.
Every now and then, somebody gave information that was startingly good
and new and useful. But these gems came from intelligent and creative
people and such people have limited time. The hacks that spend endless
time on "the net" do not like anything new or that they disagree with -
with or without evidence that it is right or wrong. So they demand
"proof" of what anybody else says that they disagree with. And the more
they get answers, the more they continue to harangue the contributor of
the information. If you have ever wondered why you do not see
well-known aquarists on the forums and discussion groups, this is the
main reason. Why spend limited time trying to help when you are simply
badgered for it. Better to just save the time and not participate. You
can do much more, much more easily by writing an article for an
aquarium magazine."

Assumptive hacks do not bug me, but the words from Mike are very
precise and to the point.

Regards,
Tom Barr


  #17   Report Post  
Old 15-01-2005, 10:12 PM
Richard
 
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Here's an excerp from Mike, past editor of TFH(used with his
premission) about "free" advice on the net.

by Mike Reed
Past Editor of TFH Magazine

It's amazing how treacherous the Internet can be if you are looking for
advice about keeping tropical fishes. Every now and then, I used to
visit the forums and discussion groups on "the net" and even
participated in them briefly. What I saw was that in with the simple,
sometimes good advice was an amazing amount of outdated advice and some
downright bad advice being given to all who would read and trust it.
Every now and then, somebody gave information that was startingly good
and new and useful. But these gems came from intelligent and creative
people and such people have limited time. The hacks that spend endless
time on "the net" do not like anything new or that they disagree with -
with or without evidence that it is right or wrong. So they demand
"proof" of what anybody else says that they disagree with. And the more
they get answers, the more they continue to harangue the contributor of
the information. If you have ever wondered why you do not see
well-known aquarists on the forums and discussion groups, this is the
main reason. Why spend limited time trying to help when you are simply
badgered for it. Better to just save the time and not participate. You
can do much more, much more easily by writing an article for an
aquarium magazine."

Assumptive hacks do not bug me, but the words from Mike are very
precise and to the point.


When was he editor? I've never heard of him and have been wrting for TFH for years.

That he spent a small time on the net and found it uselss is no great shock,
and it's rather a slap in the face to people that do know their stuff and have
been here since posting #1 back in the 80s.

The current editor of TFH does not share his opinion. And it's not like
you can't find bad information inj any magazine. His point is valid
to the extent that "some guy on the next said xxx works" is not valid
without checking to see if that's really true. This is the nature of
research and critical thought.

I like TFH. But the net, not TFH made the fish hobby what it is today. Hell, you
can't even buy TFH in Canada. There's a lot to be said for instand uniquitous
communication. Or would you rather snail mail your question to TFH and read the answer
4 months later?



--
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http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
  #18   Report Post  
Old 16-01-2005, 03:17 AM
 
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Hi Richard,

You can email those questions to him directly.
Mike Reed, you can do the search, he sells fish foods, is active in the
marine club down in LA.

There are few folks still posting from the 80' he-)

Kinda of funny when I'm called spammer:-)
hehe TFH has some issues, which is why I write for my own web site, not
TFH, which I've written for in the past. They want permanent ownership
of your photo's and do not give much for them. Mike's comments sort of
lead me to do what I do today, things evolve.

I'd be doing quite well in this hobby without the web..... but helping
other folks is something I enjoy. I teach and do public service and do
this hobby.

No reason I should give everything away either. You either for that
matter.

Regards,
Tom Barr

  #19   Report Post  
Old 16-01-2005, 04:15 AM
Ozdude
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
Simply registering a user name and password cost absolutely *nothing*.
Just like here...........is Goggle is unethical as well?


snipped and taken on board

I'm so sorry Tom. I am very guilty of "mindlessness". In the process I
projected my generalised suspicion about people's motivation. Many
apologies. If any one on Usenet knows, it is I, about shooting your mind and
mouth off without proper investigation. I have learnt another lesson this
day, so it hasn't all been bad for me

All I can do apologise to you and tell it won't happen again. I guess I am a
bit tense about my plants, income and ability, being the novice **** that I
am

All the best and keep up the good work. FWIW I did register (Ozdude) and I
got the information for free, and for that I am very appreciative. Sorry
once again - I shall be more mindful next time.

Regards,

Oz


--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith


  #20   Report Post  
Old 16-01-2005, 05:13 AM
Richard
 
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There are few folks still posting from the 80' he-)

Yeah but it's just not the same without Oleg. Somebody
email him and ask why their water is green. He loves that.

hehe TFH has some issues, which is why I write for my own web site, not
TFH, which I've written for in the past. They want permanent ownership
of your photo's and do not give much for them. Mike's comments sort of
lead me to do what I do today, things evolve.


Wellll, they want a perpetual non-exclusive right to redistibute. That means
they can do whatever they want with them, but so can you. I don't see this
as a problem. You're right they don't pay much for them, but Dave is
trying to get them to double the rate for pictures they may use again
wheras pictures of say, an event are really only usefull once. The secret is
to sell them LOTS of pictures :-)

I'd be doing quite well in this hobby without the web..... but helping
other folks is something I enjoy. I teach and do public service and do
this hobby.


Sure. But the number of people the net puts you in instant touch with
both very locally (oh, you keep fish) and halfway around the world,
makes a huge difference. The pre-internet fish era sucked as far as that
went.

No reason I should give everything away either. You either for that
matter.


Yeah right. Lemme know how that goes. I'm still waiting for my royalty check
for sci.aquaria. Fish poeple are the nicest but absolute cheapest
people on the planet. I shouldda done marine stuff, not killies. Those
guys have money. :-) But, you gotta do what you love so killies and crypts
it is.



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org


  #21   Report Post  
Old 16-01-2005, 07:17 AM
Elaine T
 
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Richard wrote:
There are few folks still posting from the 80' he-)



Yeah but it's just not the same without Oleg. Somebody
email him and ask why their water is green. He loves that.


Oleg! Now there's a familiar name. But I think George Booth likes
green water emails even better.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

  #22   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 02:44 AM
 
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Heck, we all get huffy here and there and usenet is THE place for a
good huff:-) Truer words may never be spoken:-)

No need to apologize, I'm very understanding and thicked skinned, also
very crotchety yet frinedly and tenacious. hummm okay so I'm weird, but
it's generally a good weird according to those that know me, doesn't
matter either way, I ain't changing:-).

We learn by making mistakes, hell, I've made lots, about 95% of science
is making mistakes, when you don't, then you learn what works(If you
are lucky:-).

I can see how the misunderstanding occurred, I should ahve said to
create a user name etc.

But main thing now, try to make the reactor, give it a try and see what
you think, does it suit your needs and is it good at providing good CO2
levels when you need it?

Was it easy to build ? etc......

That's more important to me, the idea, helping folks.
Take care
Tom Barr

  #23   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 02:49 AM
 
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Marine stuff, funny you mention that
Yes, I am moving through there at a blazing pace addressing their algae
issues and do they have lots and all sorts of $ to waste.
It's hard to argue that reef is not truly cool looking
Regards,
Tom Barr

  #24   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 03:02 AM
 
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I've induced GW perhaps 50 times in a planted tank.
UV and back to inducing it again. Adding NO3 will not induce it. Adding
PO4 will not induce it, adding lots of traces will not induce it.
Adding all of them except NH4 will not induce it.
Adding NH4 at higher levels and using higher and higher fish loads also
induces it and other algae.

I think I fried Booth's cables(wires) :-)
He's such a nice person, in person and on the net also.
The cable debate was our favorite topic.

Siome fish people are cheap, the reefer's have no issues droppingh
large sums. Plant and FW people are very cheap IME.

Hence the free DIY plan for a well designed effective easy to make CO2
reactor.

I have a very cool new DIY external version coming out in about a month
and some new research on why they build up that gas bubble and how it
influences efficiency of CO2 diffusion. Some interesting O2/CO2
comparisons and data and a good reason to use the venturi on them.

But as you say, many places simply don't carry TFH, the web is better
IMO as well. But I want to produce a book here in the next couple of
years, this will help lead to that.

No, TFH will not be the company I chose to publish it:-)
Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

  #25   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 05:02 AM
Ozdude
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
Heck, we all get huffy here and there and usenet is THE place for a
good huff:-) Truer words may never be spoken:-)

No need to apologize, I'm very understanding and thicked skinned, also
very crotchety yet frinedly and tenacious. hummm okay so I'm weird, but
it's generally a good weird according to those that know me, doesn't
matter either way, I ain't changing:-).

We learn by making mistakes, hell, I've made lots, about 95% of science
is making mistakes, when you don't, then you learn what works(If you
are lucky:-).

I can see how the misunderstanding occurred, I should ahve said to
create a user name etc.

But main thing now, try to make the reactor, give it a try and see what
you think, does it suit your needs and is it good at providing good CO2
levels when you need it?

Was it easy to build ? etc......

That's more important to me, the idea, helping folks.
Take care
Tom Barr


I just wanted to see what your idea was, truth be known.

I am not in a position to buy even the smallest power head atm, so I am
going to use collected ideas from all the DIY reactors I have seen on the
internet and adapt them to my current situation:

My intention is to modify my 350L/H Hailea internal filter by putting an air
stone in it's vacant front compartment. Replacing the sponges with plastic
open weave scourers (which you can buy for 0.50c for two here in Aus) and
putting chopped drinking straws in the carbon basket, and hopefully all of
that won't clog with stuff, will break the bubbles to a very small size and
the impeller and venturi can do the rest.

I will let ya'll know what happens. I fear a blockage the most and I'm not
that worried about the corrosive effect of CO2 on the impeller at this time.

I have blow valves on my Yeast and the gas exchange bottle and generator
bottle sealed in a shopping bag type waste bin to minimise the effects of
any potential explosion of the generator, if anything does block. There is
also a one way valve on the silicone tube to stop back siphoning etc...

So we'll see how it all goes.

Many thanks for the information though and I quite like the ideas in your
model reactor.

If mine isn't effective or problematic, then I know I can get a power head
for A$9.80 (US$5.60) from an online supplier and I'll follow your design and
get back to you.

I guess it's going to take a bit of tinkering with Yeast/Baking Soda/Sugar
mixes to get it outputting enough, but I dare say I may end up with two
bottles if a single 2L generator can't do my 4' tank.

All the best and keep up the good work.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith





  #26   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2005, 08:09 AM
 
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I think you'll be very hard pressed to expect a single 2 liter DIY
yeast bottle to do the job.
I'd suggest 2 or 3 of them.

The nice thing about my design is the burp hole and misting effects
from the venturi.
This self levels the reactor, when there's enough CO2 or too much, it
will waste the gas, or if there's a lot of O2 degassing.

So even if you add a bit too much CO2, you still end up with a decent,
but not too high CO2 ppm level. You can run them too high and kill your
fiash though.........but much less so than with external and filter
versions.

But whne the CO2 production drops, these units are 100% efficient.

So this mediates the variation in CO2 production for folks using DIY
yeast CO2.

I used yeast for about 10 years, so I am very familar with this device
and it's use with yeast CO2 methods.

Gas tanks are great and worth every penny, but if yeast is all you got
and can afford, then you have to make do. I was a poor student not long
ago.

This type of device can be made for less than 10$ US with the power
head, that's hard to beat.

I have a neat version coming out that's an external DIY with the
venturi.

Give me a month or so.

Parting note: CO2 is critical if you use it, make sure you add enough,
most folks do not add enough and thus have algae problems for a long
time. Use your eyes if you cannot afford test kits etc, Riccia is a
good indicator plants for CO2.



Regards,
Tom Barr

  #27   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2005, 09:14 AM
Ozdude
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
I think you'll be very hard pressed to expect a single 2 liter DIY
yeast bottle to do the job.
I'd suggest 2 or 3 of them.


I am looking at two, to be honest. I won't actually fire the single one up
until tomorrow, so it'll be all observation and tweeking from there in. I
have bottle two ready to be hooked in, just in case.

The nice thing about my design is the burp hole and misting effects
from the venturi.
This self levels the reactor, when there's enough CO2 or too much, it
will waste the gas, or if there's a lot of O2 degassing.


I figure (atm) there is no need to modify the design I am going to use for
the simple reason that the filters sponge holder has vents up to about 1/3
from the bottom, which will "store" momentarily any CO2 gas coming from the
input line. If it is too fast it will just build up and flow out of the
vents. It could be better, but as the thing hasn't seen operation yet, I
figure I am going to have to modify it on the run. I understand your
regulation

I do like your device a lot though, out of all the ones I've seen out there.
It has the advantage, as you state of being self regulating.

So even if you add a bit too much CO2, you still end up with a decent,
but not too high CO2 ppm level. You can run them too high and kill your
fiash though.........but much less so than with external and filter
versions.


I am going to be watching this very carefully. I can't afford to
injure/kill, neither do I want to stress what fish I have, so if there is
any strangeness or stress, then I'll remove it while I rethink, or better
still get a dedicated reactor and powerhead - two weeks away minimum.

But whne the CO2 production drops, these units are 100% efficient.


Understood.

So this mediates the variation in CO2 production for folks using DIY
yeast CO2.

I used yeast for about 10 years, so I am very familar with this device
and it's use with yeast CO2 methods.


It's in the top 3 that I've seen out there using powerheads


Gas tanks are great and worth every penny, but if yeast is all you got
and can afford, then you have to make do. I was a poor student not long
ago.


It's all I can afford. I am a very DIY guy atm any way due to being out of
work. I am learning heaps and the extra effort involved is certainly worth
it for me in the hobby because the rewards are beautiful plants, and
thriving fish - some of which are very entertaining just to watch


This type of device can be made for less than 10$ US with the power
head, that's hard to beat.


Well, US$10 is a lot of money for me at the moment. Perhpas I should start
an "Aquaria on a shoestring" web thing?

Never the less, I must comment that you find absolutely amazing things in
peoples put outs over here. All the wood I have used for my stand and will
use for the completed lighting hood all comes from the street for free.

I just got some river gravel and river sand from a friend who went hunting
for wild Rainbow Fish and having a little carpentry ability, some electrical
and mechanical ability enables a lot of my stuff to happen for next to
nothing. You sure so appreciate something when you have to make it yourself



I have a neat version coming out that's an external DIY with the
venturi.


I can't wait for that one. I saw your post the other day mentioning it and
my palms got all sweaty


Give me a month or so.


I am a patient man. It'll be better the longer you have to develop it, I
figure. 1 month, 2 months, doesn't matter to moi - as long as it's
functional, practical and effective and you are happy with it.

Parting note: CO2 is critical if you use it, make sure you add enough,
most folks do not add enough and thus have algae problems for a long
time. Use your eyes if you cannot afford test kits etc, Riccia is a
good indicator plants for CO2.


I think most of my current plants will "show" me. I haven't had algae
problems up to now (touch wood), but I am getting two bridgesii type snails
tomorrow and today I found a LFS that plenty of real SAE's cheap. I am sure
I'll adapt and cope, but thanks for the heads up just the same. Much
appreciated.

I'll keep you informed as to what happens after the CO2 introduction. I am
hoping my pH will drop a degree from 7.8 to 6.8 actually, so I guess there
will be a few ways to know if the CO2 is enough or not.


Regards,

Oz




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