"Bob Alston" wrote in message
news:9poQd.13251$Zr.10304@okepread03...
50% weekly water changes will help a lot.

Bob


unless there is phosphate in the replacement water or the dechlorinator

spiral, check the phosphates in your tap water if that is what you use.
Also, do you use anything like neutral regulator or ph right, etc...?

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

No actually I quit using pH 7.0 about 6 months ago. I saw a post about
phosphate buffers and sure enough.... the stuff was a phosphate buffer.
Currently I use NO chemicals at all and about 1 teaspoon of phosphate
free carbon (Black Diamond) in only one of the filters. I am doing a
30% water change with a vacuum every Saturday just to stay ahead of the
BGA while I try different things. I am going to test my tap (well)
water tonight, thank you. I have tried blackout... it works but only
temporarily. My problem is pretty advanced. In 3-4 days I have a good
covering, primarily on the right side of the tank. This is the side
with only two java ferns and the whisper filter. My plants are
primarily on the left. I would say my tank maintenence is pretty good
although I am still learning. I will NOT start the tank over. What will
I learn from that? It may very well be coming from my tap water....
that'll be great.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

Margolis wrote:
"Bob Alston" wrote in message
news:9poQd.13251$Zr.10304@okepread03...

50% weekly water changes will help a lot.

Bob



unless there is phosphate in the replacement water or the dechlorinator

spiral, check the phosphates in your tap water if that is what you use.
Also, do you use anything like neutral regulator or ph right, etc...?

Agree it is possible. But in my experience more likely from the flake
food and overfeeding.

Bob

In article .com,
spiral_72 wrote:
Hey, I think I just found out last night why I am growing so much BGA.
I stopped by the LFS on the way home from work and bought a phosphate
test kit. From what I have read it should be 0-1mg/L..... The test kit
measured 0-5mg/L....... clear to blue. Mine registered off the
scale..... It was a deep purple. Guess I need to take some steps to fix
that ASAP. I figure I can buy those phosphate absorbing pills or add A
LOT more plants...... or both.

What do y'all think?

I think you havn't been changing water enough. The absorbing pillow will
take longer than you want to wait to work. Change 80% of the weater
till it's gone then doweekly 50% changes. Test your tapwatrer for
phosphatre.

What do you fed? (some foods are higher in PO4 than others)

Do you use carbon? (It can leech phosphate)


--
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I feed TetraMin flakes for tropical fish and four sinking cat pellets
once a day about 7pm. Also about every week and a half I feed frozen
blood worms to replace the flake. I do use carbon, Black Diamond
(pakage says phosphate free)..... a very small amount (1 tsp) in one
filter bag replaced monthly.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

spiral_72 wrote:
I feed TetraMin flakes for tropical fish and four sinking cat pellets
once a day about 7pm. Also about every week and a half I feed frozen
blood worms to replace the flake. I do use carbon, Black Diamond
(pakage says phosphate free)..... a very small amount (1 tsp) in one
filter bag replaced monthly.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

To test for phosphates in your carbon, set up your phosphate test with
distilled or RO water and drop a few grains of carbon into it.
(Reefkeepers' trick). I believe you're right that Black Diamond does
actually test phosphate free but it can't hurt to try.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

"Bob Alston" wrote in message
news:yvqQd.13255$Zr.12796@okepread03...
Agree it is possible. But in my experience more likely from the flake
food and overfeeding.




I can't see how overfeeding could get it to go off the scale. Even a whole
can of flake with a high phosphorous content wouldn't get it that high I
wouldn't think.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

I tested my tap water last night.... 0.25mg/L of phosphate
I wasn't real sure what to do. I cleaned the tank again last night. The
stuff is growing at a tremendous rate. It has attacked my java ferns,
driftwood, rock and gravel but for the most part it has left my Amazon
Swords alone. I can't get over it grows primarily on the right side. I
will test my carbon tonight. I use so little of it, I doubt that's it.
I really do clean quite well, so I doubt it is fish/food waste. I am
scared it will be my substrate. It doesn't really make any sense to
have an outbreak after a year of being setup though.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

Oh, I am running a blackout starting last night. With any luck I can
get regain some control of this thing.
What do you think? I read in a book (I think) that algae can only take
advantage of a long period of light, while plants can take some
advantage of several shorter periods. Any experience with that? Could I
run my lights for just two hours several times a day and cut down on
algae growth?

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

Spiral,

Rather than going 5 different directions about algae, focus on the dang
plants!
Take care of their needs.

The PO4 issue could be the test kit, you are relying all the issue on
that, that has NOTHING to do with BGA or outbreaks of algae unless it's
too low.

Tell me, anyone, what is the difference between 2ppm of PO4 and say
5ppm of PO4 regarding algae, will one cause algae ansd the other will
not? I've dosed 1-2ppm of PO4 in my tanks for oh..........about 15
years ..........where is my algae?

I'll tell you, it's not there and PO4 excess does not cause algae in a
well planted tank.

Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure
will...................

It';s simply much easier and straight forward for a new person to focus
on the plant's needs.

I am over playing the notion of NOT using antibiotics because it's an
easy solution to a more complicated issue.

KNO3 is what the tank is lacking, not antibiotics.

Blackout and antiobiotics merely kill what's there, it does NOT solve
your issue.

Ask your self this: why do I have algae?
Poor plant growth.

When the plants are growing well, you have no algae.
So focus on the plants.

Any plant can handle a 3 day blackout, if you fail to add the KNO3
back, the BGa will come back in a few days, if you fail to add the KNO3
doing the antiobiotic, it'll come back in 1-2 months, perhaps longer if
you feed more etc or somehow start adding more Nitrogen.

The blackout allows you to repeat the KNO3 test and shows you rather
quickly that the lack of KNO3 encourages a BGA bloom. It would have
taken me years to figure that out using antibiotics.............so
pills don't teach you much either.

Stay healthy and you don't get sick and need pills/algae fix, Copper
etc, so keep your plants healthy.
Rather than the quick fix, look at the long term solution, then folks
can get back to talking about plants and not algae .........

This is much easier and actually deceptively simple.

Regards,
Tom Barr

In article .com,
wrote:
Tell me, anyone, what is the difference between 2ppm of PO4 and say
5ppm of PO4 regarding algae, will one cause algae ansd the other will
not? I've dosed 1-2ppm of PO4 in my tanks for oh..........about 15
years ..........where is my algae?

It's here in one of my tanks. Do you want me to mail it to you
or something?

*******.

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Sure. Send it, I'll tell you the species too.
My pioint is really, if the algae likes excess, why don't we see it in
tank with obvious excess levels of NO3 and PO4, light, CO2, Fe/traces,
K+, Ca, Mg ??????

Surely excess is 2ppm of orthophosphate(DIP) which is the most
bioavailable form of PO4.
How is that different than say 5ppm?

How much is too much PO4?
I have no practical reason to dose more than 2ppm but I'd like to know
what range causes problems...
I really do not know of an upper limit. If you have some concrete data,
that would be interesting.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Well, as much as all that hurt my feelings...... You might have a
point. With the exception of my banana plant, my plant growth is slow
to almost stopped.

"How much is too much PO4?" I've not seen any concrete data either, but
since the test measures 0-5mg/L and assuming the manufacturer is the
expert (Hagen) I figgered 5 was way too much..... and about 2.5 was
acceptable (middle of the test range), while 0 or 2.5 was ideal. Is
that a ridiculous assumption? After all, what good is a gauge if it
reads something other than an ideal or expected quantity?

Just for the record I changed about 30% water in my 55g this weekend
with 0.25mg/L tap water. Before and after the water change, the test
measured purple (off the scale.) I soaked a handful of my carbon (new,
out of the can) in 16oz of clean tap water... The water was 0.25mg/L
PO4 before and after I mixed the carbon. I tested my peat (new) using
the same method.... no change in PO4 before and after. I broke off a
small piece of the substrate fertilizer I use.... No change.
Therefore, it appears PO4 is leeching from my substrate or I have
decaying fish waste laying everywhere (which I don't.) The way I figure
it, I can:
1.Sell everything, and give up.
2.Continue to clean the tank twice a week and hope things clear up.
3.Buy lots of plants and/or some PO4 "sponge" and wait.
4.Take Tom Barr's suggestion and:

dose (KNO3) Potassium Nitrate (How do you know mine is low?)

"Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure
will............."
(NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected.
Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose
Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking
down.....forms of organic waste.
GH is 7d(125ppm) a little on the soft side.
PO4 is very high.... that's what I am concerned with
CO2 by calculation is about 8ppm. Not too bad right?.... a little low
(K) Potassium.... I have no idea.

So, not to start a fight...... What is wrong with this picture? I ask
questions to learn. The phosphates are the only thing I can find that
are out of the ordinary. I don't have a test kit for everything. That
would cost hundreds of dollars. While I agree that low plant growth
must be an indicator of something, I expect to run some extra CO2 and
they will flourish. No? Maybe not. Do I purchase some leaf fertilezer
with iron and all the trace elements and give that a shot? I think I am
going about finding a solution fairly methodically. I sure hope when
this is all finished, someone can search for BGA in Google and find
this trial with a solution.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

spiral_72 wrote:
dose (KNO3) Potassium Nitrate (How do you know mine is low?)


Use a nitrate, NO3, test kit.

KNO3 is a molecule composed of elements O, N and K. You knew that,
anyway, yes?

"Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure
will............."

NO3 is a constituent of KNO3, so is K.

(NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected.

That's your problem. The plants can't use up any further P if N is zero,
hence your high PO4 or P. Your plants are craving for nitrogen!

Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose
Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking
down.....forms of organic waste.

What? Nitrates = NO3. Dosing KNO3 is dosing your tank with nitrates,
plus some potassium. I don't think the plants really care about its source.

Nikki

"spiral_72" wrote in news:1109008752.449041.270760
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Well, as much as all that hurt my feelings...... You might have a
point. With the exception of my banana plant, my plant growth is slow
to almost stopped.

.......

"Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure
will............."
(NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected.
Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose
Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking
down.....forms of organic waste.
GH is 7d(125ppm) a little on the soft side.
PO4 is very high.... that's what I am concerned with
CO2 by calculation is about 8ppm. Not too bad right?.... a little low
(K) Potassium.... I have no idea.


Hey spiral, just a quick note a fellow aquarist who had a similar
problem... Tom's is the way go to.
I've been down the limiting ferts route, especially phosphates, and it
never really worked and if it did work the plants didn't do well. Now I
actually still have little visable traces of algae around in my tank, so I
know I'm not clean and it could grow, but it just doesn't. It still took
me a little tweaking of using lots of fert and CO2 to get it working. I
have a larger than usual for a fully planted tank (at least compaired to
the pics you see on the web) so I personally use less NO3 and I vacuum my
gravel whenever I move plants from that spot. The nice thing is while you
are working on getting the balance right, even if you have algae at least
your plants are going gangbusters and that's encouraging.... that PO4 will
probably get sucked up by the plants (it's just amazing) and just disappear
unless you got a real hard PO4 source in your gravel.

I'll let Tom do the work and give you the details but I'll tell you right
now that CO2 is way way low. I'm around upper 20s to 30ppm CO2. There's a
note on most charts saying above 20 is bad but I haven't seen a hint of a
problem.

Luck, don't give up ;)
Pete.

PS. if that banana plant is anything like mine, once you get your tank
really running it will take over. It turned into one of those giant ferns
people use in the corned of their office.. it's massive.