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Old 26-02-2005, 06:23 AM
Richard Sexton
 
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In article ,
Pete wrote:
"spiral_72" wrote in news:1109257838.263647.17370
:

Yup, I got some after work. Finally! The hardware store had some made
of Sodium sulphide (Na2So3) I think..... So, against my principles I
went to the Lowes..... They had the Green Light brand that said it
contained potassium nitrate. I had them pull an MSDS on it just to be
sure. It is supposedly 100%
I tried the stuff in my 16oz jar with water and sure enough.....
Nitrates out the roof!. I put about 1/3 tablespoon in my aquarium
filter. I'll check it out again tonight.


WHOA NELLY!!.
Unless I'm way off here, I think you just dosed your tank to about 20ppm of
Nitrates when you're aiming for around 5ppm. You can use this site for
calculations
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm


So? I aim for 20-30 ppm and don't use CO2. I slipped a digit once and had
200 pm for a month. No shrimp, plant, fish or snail was adversely affected.

Nitrates don't kill fish, poeple kill fish.

--
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Old 26-02-2005, 06:26 AM
Richard Sexton
 
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Try mixing it with diesel .....it and ammonium nitrate with diesel make a
good explosive too ;-) They use it in the open pit mines to shatter the
coal so it can be scooped up and loaded.


IIRC, Ammonium nitrate and diesel is the most powerful non-nuclear explosive
thee is. It's how they dug the Panama canal. Something like 5 bags of
ammonium nitrate and 5 gallons of diesel leaves a half mile wide crater.

*BRING*

"Hello?"

"Uh, yeah..."

It's the NSA. It's for you.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
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  #48   Report Post  
Old 27-02-2005, 03:22 AM
Pete
 
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(Richard Sexton) wrote in :



WHOA NELLY!!.
Unless I'm way off here, I think you just dosed your tank to about
20ppm of Nitrates when you're aiming for around 5ppm. You can use this
site for calculations
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

So? I aim for 20-30 ppm and don't use CO2. I slipped a digit once and
had 200 pm for a month. No shrimp, plant, fish or snail was adversely
affected.

Nitrates don't kill fish, poeple kill fish.


Never said it killed fish. Was really more a comment on a large initial
does for a tank in problems with new ferts and while trying to balance it
out.

I've done the same thing with phosphates, but then my tank was plant loaded
already and didn't have any algae problems. Don't want him to find his
algae problem growing worse and then giving up on the fert idea.

  #49   Report Post  
Old 27-02-2005, 03:57 AM
Richard Sexton
 
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In article ,
Pete wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in :



WHOA NELLY!!.
Unless I'm way off here, I think you just dosed your tank to about
20ppm of Nitrates when you're aiming for around 5ppm. You can use this
site for calculations
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm


So? I aim for 20-30 ppm and don't use CO2. I slipped a digit once and
had 200 pm for a month. No shrimp, plant, fish or snail was adversely
affected.

Nitrates don't kill fish, poeple kill fish.


Never said it killed fish. Was really more a comment on a large initial
does for a tank in problems with new ferts and while trying to balance it
out.


Fair enough, bit too low of a nitrate level will cause algae too, specifically
blue green algae.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
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1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
  #50   Report Post  
Old 27-02-2005, 06:33 PM
Pete
 
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(Richard Sexton) wrote in :

In article ,
Pete wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in :



WHOA NELLY!!.
Unless I'm way off here, I think you just dosed your tank to about
20ppm of Nitrates when you're aiming for around 5ppm. You can use
this site for calculations
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

So? I aim for 20-30 ppm and don't use CO2. I slipped a digit once
and had 200 pm for a month. No shrimp, plant, fish or snail was
adversely affected.

Nitrates don't kill fish, poeple kill fish.


Never said it killed fish. Was really more a comment on a large
initial does for a tank in problems with new ferts and while trying to
balance it out.


Fair enough, bit too low of a nitrate level will cause algae too,
specifically blue green algae.


Yeah, I had it higher myself before, but tried moving to lower levels as I
have a med-high fish load and wanted to make sure the NH4 (a real algae
booster) is also being used up and it seemed to work well. All a process
of trying certain levels and observing the reactions.

Pete.



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Old 27-02-2005, 10:02 PM
[email protected]
 
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Um, my algae condition has not improved. I am going to give it a bit
before I change anything more. I expect it would be foolish to add

more
plants if the plants I have are running idle. As soon as I find out
what causes my current plants to grow I will add more, which should
take care of the algae problem, right?
There, now I'm following the original post. Right?
my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html


Try doing a 3 day blackout, that will kill the BGA as will antibiotics.

But if you want prevention and removal over the long term, address the
plant's needs.

Remove as much BGA as you can. Clean filter, prune any thing overgrown
that's draping across the surface of the water.
Do 50% water change, add KNO3 at 1/4 teaspoon per 25 gal of tank.
Wait 3 days, turn off CO2, cover with trashbags, (2 so that no light at
all gets in), remove after 3 days, add the same amount of KNO3 back,
hook up CO2, make sure you have enough CO2, then add that much KNO3
2-3x a week there after and do good sized water changes(say 50%)
weekly.

Your plants will grow if you give them what they need, K+, NO3, CO2,
light, traces, GH, and PO4 etc.

This will prevent any algae, not just BGA, from infecting your tank in
the future for many years.

When you neglect the tank and the plant's needs, the plants slow down
their growth and then if severe enough, the algae appear.

So always focus on the plant's needs, then you have no algae issues to
speak of.

This concept is both simple and effective.

Regards,
Tom Barr

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Old 28-02-2005, 01:39 PM
spiral_72
 
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I added 1/2 a teaspoon about 4 days ago without much (if any) change in
nitrates. Last night after my tank maintenance I added another 1/2
teaspoon. Wednesday and Saturday I cleaned very, very well with the
gravel vac. About 30% water each time. I don't think the phosphate
levels have changed much but my nitrates have increased slightly. Next
weekend it's time for another round of substrate fertilizer.

I'm not real sure the algae is growing any slower. Maybe a little.

Tom, I've noted your proceedure. Currently I don't have a way to add
CO2. I will work on that this week if possible. I am considering
setting up a yeast reactor for now..... Never did that un' before.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

  #53   Report Post  
Old 05-03-2005, 02:14 AM
[email protected]
 
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Blackout works on non CO2 tanks, but you still need to address the
plant's need and have enough plant density. Growrh rate is slower but
is still there.
Cut the KNO3 down afterward and feed your fish more.

Add SeaChem Equilibrium and stop doing water changes.

Regards,
Tom Barr

  #54   Report Post  
Old 05-03-2005, 02:15 AM
[email protected]
 
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Add about 1/4 teaspoon of the SeaChem EQ once every 1-2 weeks per 25
gal.

Regards,
Tom Barr

  #56   Report Post  
Old 06-03-2005, 04:36 AM
[email protected]
 
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the only thing I never understood is if it's a problem with low
nitrates why change the water then?

if you're getting rid of spores, that's futile because of the high
turnover of the bacteria anyway.

as i understand it old water=more nitrates, as long as you feed the
fish more, and got a well-cycled tank to convert ammonia.

been dealing with this problem, the whole time with my 4 year old
planted. the funny thing is when I stopped changing water as
frequently, the bga change from the dense black mat, to a more
manageable brown scum (still smells the same with that swampy odor), it
never goes away completely with maramycin.

realistically, your goal has to be to achieve some acceptable balance
with removeable or mimimal amounts. the high phos that drives it is
largely from the tap water anyway (if you do frequent changes), so the
only way to get low phos without using chems is to move to a different
town.

you just got to work with the cards you've been dealt.

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  #57   Report Post  
Old 06-03-2005, 05:05 AM
Richard Sexton
 
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In article .com,
wrote:
the only thing I never understood is if it's a problem with low
nitrates why change the water then?


I've never seen BGA in newly setup tanks even with plants moved to
it that are BGA infected. I'm wondering if it's a buildup or
something like organics that is a prerequisite.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
  #58   Report Post  
Old 06-03-2005, 05:28 AM
Elaine T
 
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Richard Sexton wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

the only thing I never understood is if it's a problem with low
nitrates why change the water then?



I've never seen BGA in newly setup tanks even with plants moved to
it that are BGA infected. I'm wondering if it's a buildup or
something like organics that is a prerequisite.


Pasteur Institute's defined Cyanobacter culture medium used for
freshwater, soil, and thermal strains.

g/l mM
NaNO3 1.5 17.65
(replaced with 10 mM NaHCO3 for nitrogen-fixing strains)
K2HPO4.3H20 0.04 0.18
MgSO4.7H2O 0.075 0.30
CaCl2.2H2O 0.036 0.25
Citric acid 0.006 0.03
Ferric ammonium citrate 0.006 0.03
EDTA (disodium magnesium) 0.001 0.003
Na2CO3 0.02 0.19

Trace metal mix A5+Co 1 ml
Deionized water to 1 l
pH after autoclaving and cooling: 7.4

Trace metals A5+Co
Ingredient g/l
H3BO3 2.86
MnCl2.4H2O 1.81
ZnSO4.7H2O 0.222
Na2MoO4.2H2O 0.390
CuSO4.5H2O 0.079
Co(NO3)2.6H2O 0.049

See anything that could build up over time? I think maybe it's the
phosphate, since that's at 40 ppm. New tanks don't usually have that
generous an amount of phosphate. Of course, a defined medium at a
culture collection is designed to support long-term growth so that much
phosphate probably isn't necessary in the short term.

--
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__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

  #59   Report Post  
Old 07-03-2005, 02:20 PM
spiral_72
 
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I'm not real sure what I have learned from this whole BGA thing. I have
learned many things it is NOT.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

  #60   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2005, 08:35 AM
[email protected]
 
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Plant tissue.

Over a 3-9 month peroid, large amounts of cuttings are removed from the
tank.

Just like a CO2 enriched tank, except slower...........hence smaller
amounts dosed less frequently.
Higher Ca is less of an issue, K+ also helps and can become limiting,
we can add CaCO3 etc for Ca and KH to the gravel(eg Onyx sand).

The two box model:
Nutrients (Fish food, organic or inorganic KNO3 etc) in = plant
biomass/filter cleaning out.

As more nutrients are needed to maintain growth rates with CO2 and more
light, the bacteria can not process and break down the organic nutrient
waste fast enough and build up occurs.
Then you get algae.

So we add inorganic nutrients like KNO3 and other inorganic readily
bioavailable nutrients.
While slower growth rates in non CO2 tanks are slow enough to supply
many plants, fish food is hardly balanced for plant health and needs in
many species. It'll do okay, but a few small dosing changes will
greatly improve a non CO2 tank.

Adding SeaChem Equilbrium of a mix of MgSO4/CaCl2/K2SO4 etc and some
traces can help if added 1-2x a week at small amounts.

Try it and see. It takes more time than CO2 enriched tanks to see it,
but it will help and you should be able to see an improvement soon.

Regards,
Tom Barr



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