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  #61   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:59 PM
spiral_72
 
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Thanks, there are too many variables. I am afraid to add nutrients at
random but there is no way I can determine what the exact levels are
for each nutrient. Even if I could, it'd be a full time job monitoring
the stuff. I understand why dosing nitrates is required. I just don't
feel like a chemistry lesson right now and would just like to enjoy the
fish Takes work though, eh?

I am going to get the exact fertilizer you recommended if I can find
it. If not I'll make some kind of educated(?) desicion based on the
compounds you give me. I assume that is a liquid, right?

Something else I just realized too. My Amazon Swords began developing
yellow/brown areas on many of the leaves and quit growing just about
the time the BGA started taking over. I guess that should have been an
indicator. I'll google those symptoms and see what I find.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html


  #62   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2005, 05:51 PM
Richard Sexton
 
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Something else I just realized too. My Amazon Swords began developing
yellow/brown areas on many of the leaves and quit growing just about
the time the BGA started taking over. I guess that should have been an
indicator. I'll google those symptoms and see what I find.


So right away you knoe something is wrong with their nutrients.

Ironically crpts can do really well in a tank full of BGA. I've
never figured that out. By really well I mean bigger longer leaves than
when it's cleared up.

--
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  #63   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2005, 08:08 PM
spiral_72
 
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Yea, my banana plant is growing out the top of the tank! I actually
think it's growing faster than the algae. Everything else is doing
pretty poor though.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

  #64   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2005, 03:04 AM
 
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Actually no, it's rather easy to determine the nutrient levels and
maintain them in one simple step.

No chem lesson at all, you can make cereal right?
Add enough cereal to fill the bowl, add 2 cups of milk, 2 teaspoons of
sugar etc.

Or I can say add 250 grams of endospermous carbohydrates and 9.5 grams
of sucrose to 450mls of bovine protein mammary milk.

In a nut shell, you do large weekly water changes(say 50%) each week to
prevent anything from building up and and dose 2-4x a week to prevent
anything from running out.
the names can be whatever you want them to be, but ultimately all you
are doing is adding Nitrate, PO4 , K+ (the NPK numbers of bags of
fertilizer) and traces.

Farmer do this without chem lessons all the time.

In this manner you provide a stable range of all the nutrients cheaply,
easily and without using a test kit except for CO2(KH/pH).

An example routine for a 20 gal tank with high light:

50% water change

Add: 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3
1/16 or a smidge of KH2PO4
If GH is lower than 3-5 out of the tap, Add SeaChem Equlibrium(1/4
teaspoon)

Next day add 5 ml of trace

wait one day, add the KNO3/KH2PO4 again, next day add the trace again

Add the KNO3/KH2PO4
Trace again the next day

Water change: repeat ad nauseum.

Dosing 1/4 teaspoon of powered KNO3 = 1.67 grams according to a lab
scale with 10 levels averages.

This added to 20 gal= 10-11ppm of NO3. Error is about 1ppm of NO3.

Name one hobby kit that can be that accurate?

We dose excess nutrients in all cases, nothign wrong with that as long
as we don't get too far off base and the water changes prevent folks
from lousing it up.

You can guessimate and use the plants as the indicator as you become
more skilled and dose less or go longer without water changes.

Again, no test kit is needed.

As long as you keep up on dosing and water changes, this is a very
simple method and no hassle if you put an automatic water changer on
your tank, python style water changer etc or hard plumb a drain/refill.

KH2PO4, KNO3 are very cheap, SeaChem Eq is relatively cheap as well for
the once a week dosing. Traces are not too bad at this amount.

Regards,
Tom Barr

  #65   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2005, 07:45 AM
Elaine T
 
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Richard Sexton wrote:
Something else I just realized too. My Amazon Swords began developing
yellow/brown areas on many of the leaves and quit growing just about
the time the BGA started taking over. I guess that should have been an
indicator. I'll google those symptoms and see what I find.



So right away you knoe something is wrong with their nutrients.

Ironically crpts can do really well in a tank full of BGA. I've
never figured that out. By really well I mean bigger longer leaves than
when it's cleared up.

BGA is fixes nitrogen so I assume your BGA tank is low on NO3. In a
tank full of BGA, individual BGA cells would be continually dying and
falling to the substrate. Perhaps the crypts find dead BGA a better
nitrogen source than NO3 in the water column.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__



  #66   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:12 AM
Richard Sexton
 
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Something else I just realized too. My Amazon Swords began developing
yellow/brown areas on many of the leaves and quit growing just about


I looked this up in the Dupla book under plant diagnosis and
it said "nutrient problem. change lost of water and add nutrients".

Ironically crpts can do really well in a tank full of BGA. I've
never figured that out. By really well I mean bigger longer leaves than
when it's cleared up.

BGA is fixes nitrogen so I assume your BGA tank is low on NO3. In a
tank full of BGA, individual BGA cells would be continually dying and
falling to the substrate. Perhaps the crypts find dead BGA a better
nitrogen source than NO3 in the water column.


Perhaps. Is it jus tme or does BGA sort of reek of ammonia? Crypts
just love amonia. Also, a shaded crypt is a big crypt, and the
mass of stem pants covering the surface blocking the light
causes the crypts underneath to try harder to reach out for light.

I think this also explains why crypts are bigger in large tanks;
less light down at the substrate than with a small tank with
the same light.


--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
  #67   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:54 AM
Elaine T
 
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Richard Sexton wrote:
Something else I just realized too. My Amazon Swords began developing
yellow/brown areas on many of the leaves and quit growing just about



I looked this up in the Dupla book under plant diagnosis and
it said "nutrient problem. change lost of water and add nutrients".


Ironically crpts can do really well in a tank full of BGA. I've
never figured that out. By really well I mean bigger longer leaves than
when it's cleared up.


BGA is fixes nitrogen so I assume your BGA tank is low on NO3. In a
tank full of BGA, individual BGA cells would be continually dying and
falling to the substrate. Perhaps the crypts find dead BGA a better
nitrogen source than NO3 in the water column.



Perhaps. Is it jus tme or does BGA sort of reek of ammonia? Crypts
just love amonia. Also, a shaded crypt is a big crypt, and the
mass of stem pants covering the surface blocking the light
causes the crypts underneath to try harder to reach out for light.

I think this also explains why crypts are bigger in large tanks;
less light down at the substrate than with a small tank with
the same light.


BGA reeks alright. It usually smells fishy to me. It's the smell I
associate with high nitrites or a dead fish in the tank, and usually
sends me scrambling for my nitrite test kit...which always tests 0.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

  #68   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2005, 03:27 PM
spiral_72
 
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Tom,

You're my hero.

I've copied and pasted you post to my "stuff" folder. I got paid today
so I am gonna visit the LFS for SeaChem or something like it. I have
been slowly aquiring a list of aquarium chemicals. I'll try to add
KH2PO4 to the inventory.

Algae growth is about half what I started. I know I am getting
somewhere..... slowly.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

  #69   Report Post  
Old 12-03-2005, 03:35 AM
 
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www.gregwatson.com has all the raw ferts you need.

Just do niot let the names freak you out.
You are not going into an area iof tech plant keeping here, it's quite
simple and easy.
If you want, later if you are curious and cannot stand it, you can
learn chem and plant physiology.

I was anti chem initially myself.
So you might change.

I test a lot, but it's to answer specific questions and so I do not
have continue testing.....
There is an end to that.

Once you get a good feel, you can change the routine and reduce water
changes, ferts etc little by little and see what routine gives you the
results you desire.

Watch the plants, see what they do.

I think once you start on this, you can always go back and use this as
a default if you get in trouble.
Or just use it and not mess with it.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Get connected
www.BarrReport.com Get the information

  #70   Report Post  
Old 14-03-2005, 08:28 PM
spiral_72
 
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Thanks for the link. I am going to use off the shelf fertilizers for
right now. I gotta get this thing under control and there's no need to
start taking more risks than necessary.

I am dosing KNO3 to keep my nitrates at 7-10ppm

I've run several doses of Epsom salts because I had it and it was an
ingredient in PMDD

I have started using a leaf fertilizer that had the stuff you
recommended plus more. It also specifically mentioned there were NO
nitrates or phosphates in the mixture.

I am continuing a Serra substrate fertilizer at 3 tablets per month
near the roots of plants.... quality stuff!.

I have just begun a DIY CO2 bomb...... It will have been running for 3
days tonight.

I am still running 25% water changes once a week with a modified
vacuuming proceedure.... very light gravel disruption (like the tope
1/4")

BGA growth has decreased very little. Last week something wierd
happened. 3 days after my water change there was little BGA growth. I
thought I had the stuff licked. That night when I got home from work
there had been an BGA explosion. Green stuff everywhere. I changed
water one day early last week.

Results:
My banana plants are growing like crazy. Multiple new leaves and 5
shoots. Java ferns are stable with no growth. Amazon swords are
suffering slowly. There are a few new but withered leaves while others
are spotted with brown/yellow areas but very green overall. I planted
some other stuff that looks similar to Hornwort but nicer. It seems to
be stable, no growth. There does not seem to be any other forms of
algae or fungus in the tank..... The fish seem unaffected by the whole
thing. My Corys have spawned several times. The CO2 is my last resort
other than medication...... Just waiting


my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html



  #71   Report Post  
Old 14-03-2005, 08:54 PM
Richard Sexton
 
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BGA growth has decreased very little. Last week something wierd
happened. 3 days after my water change there was little BGA growth. I
thought I had the stuff licked. That night when I got home from work
there had been an BGA explosion. Green stuff everywhere. I changed
water one day early last week.


I keep suggesting massive daily water changes but never hear
how that's worked or not worked for you.

The first step to get rid of this crap is to get the tank
very clean. I siphon out all waste, gravel vac then diatom
the tank - and change lots of water. Lots and lots.

My well water here is apparantly the perfect growth medium
for staghorn which is tengentially related to BBA. Every other
algae I can lick but this one is a problem for me. I've
had to resort to chemical means to eradicate it complete
and have found peroxide can be made to work with some difficulty
and Aquarium Pharmecuticals Algae Fix kills it dead overnight
much more safely (albit it kills all invertenrates). Copper
sulphate will do the same.



--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
  #72   Report Post  
Old 14-03-2005, 10:00 PM
spiral_72
 
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Hey, I apologize..... There have been so many suggestions that I want
to carry out each methodically. I really appreciate all the feedback
but it's hard to use it all.... I don't want to change 100% water, add
1/2 pound of nitrates, washdown my gravel, pump CO2, ect. ect. ect. all
at the same time. I wouldn't know what worked. Y'know? I have even
tried H2O2 in my small tank (it has a touch of BGA nothing like this
though).

I definitely will try to change the water much more frequently. I don't
know how long I will have to do that..... I can't promise to do it
everyday but I should certainly be able to do it every other day.

One thing I forgot to mention is I cut the light quantity in half....
same duration (12hours). Not really any change though.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

  #73   Report Post  
Old 16-03-2005, 03:50 AM
[email protected]
 
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Doesn't matter what environmental changes you make, you will still need
to kill what's there.
a series of water changes can likely succeed, so can the blackout I
suggest which addresses the plant's needs with the KNO3, CO2 etc.
Carbon from the CO2 is 40%+ of the dry weight of the plants.
K and N from NO3 are a good lion's share of the rest.

Blackout is simple and takes 3 days, BGa will come back if you do not
add the KNO3.
KNO3 you can get at home dept for 5$ for a year's supply. Most folks
have a 1/4 teaspoon.

Pretty simple.

Regards,
Tom Barr

  #74   Report Post  
Old 16-03-2005, 01:33 PM
spiral_72
 
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I run about a 50% water change two days ago (I wasn't able to last
night) but when got home yesterday the tank was perfectly clear. No,
really. No bga at all. No traces, no dead bga. None. Yea I vacuumed as
much bga as I could but I didn't get it all. All the plants are a
brilliant green. I don't understand. It's just gone!

Time will tell I guess. I am gonna run another water change tonight. I
am scared of changing too much water just because my tap is 7.6pH. The
water in my tank is (now) 7.1 with the CO2.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html
  #75   Report Post  
Old 16-03-2005, 01:36 PM
spiral_72
 
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Yup, I've got the KNO3. Been dosing to keep nitrates at 10ppm

Oh, yea. A phosphate test showed levels off the scale immediately after
the 50% water change. I don't understand that. I can only assume the
test is accurate. It reads 0-0.25ppm for my tap water.

my aquarium page, info and pics at:
www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html



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