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That's it, I've had it - Blue Green Algae
I can't take it any more. I simply cannot beat or keep up with the
blue-green algae outbreak I've had now for about 5 months. I've tried everything. Blacking out the tank, removing my CO2 system, algicide treatments - nothing works. It makes my tanks look like crap, and it's killing all my plants. Their leaves are coated with thick slimy green sheets of blue-green algae, and they're falling apart little by little. My plants used to thrive and my tank was lush. My community fish species don't seem to care one way or another, but for me it's just simply not a joy to watch my tank anymore. So now, looks like I face a compete take down. But I have some questions : 1) Do blue-green algae cells die when dried, or do they just do dormant ? The BGA is infused through my gravel substrate so I need to completely wash that out when I take down. But do I need to treat it when bleach to ensure BGA's death ? Or will just rinsing and rinsing and rinsing and then drying for a while do the trick ? 2) Can I save my plants ? These seems to be the things most covered by BGA. Right down into the roots in the gravel substrate. Can I bleach-dip the plants and kill the algae ? Or am I better off throwing them out and starting over ? 3) My driftwood pieces are also covered in BGA. Should I boil ? Dry ? Bleach ? What about other things like my filter components. If BGA just goes dormant when dried, then something more drastic needs to be done to ensure I complete do away with it, other than just drying. 4) How should I treat my empty tank and for how long ? Thanks about it. Any other thoughts/advice would be well appreciated. Thanks. Shawn |
Have you tried large water changes and adding kno3? That's how I get rid of it. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
The ONLY thing that ever worked for me was Myracin. That product is
fabulous. Try it out, and follow the directions exactly. Troy "Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Have you tried large water changes and adding kno3? That's how I get rid of it. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
My LFS tells me that Myacin and a whole suite of other anitbiotics and fish
medicine are no longer legal to be sold. Any ideas on where I could get it online ? Thanks "Shagster" wrote in message ... The ONLY thing that ever worked for me was Myracin. That product is fabulous. Try it out, and follow the directions exactly. Troy "Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Have you tried large water changes and adding kno3? That's how I get rid of it. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
Where can I get KNO3 ? Is that availabe at a LFS ? I do weekly large water
changes - nearly the entire tank actually, leaving just enough for the fish to keep swimming, before I refill. Then I treat with something called "ALGAEFIX". This knocked the crap out the BGA (as well as making the rest of my plants look quite poor), and I contined the treatment for several weeks, as it said in the directions. But once I stopped, with another couple weeks the BGA reappeared and gradually got worse again. I don't want to have to maintain my tank forever on medicine and chemicals. I ran it for the first 4 years without a single breakout. Shawn "Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Have you tried large water changes and adding kno3? That's how I get rid of it. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
Grants Stump remover. Iyt can be gotten at any garden shop, hardware store
or at places like the BORG and yardbirds. Bob "Shawn" wrote in message ... Where can I get KNO3 ? Is that availabe at a LFS ? I do weekly large water changes - nearly the entire tank actually, leaving just enough for the fish to keep swimming, before I refill. Then I treat with something called "ALGAEFIX". This knocked the crap out the BGA (as well as making the rest of my plants look quite poor), and I contined the treatment for several weeks, as it said in the directions. But once I stopped, with another couple weeks the BGA reappeared and gradually got worse again. I don't want to have to maintain my tank forever on medicine and chemicals. I ran it for the first 4 years without a single breakout. Shawn "Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Have you tried large water changes and adding kno3? That's how I get rid of it. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
Shawn you will never have good results at prevention/reoccurance
without using KNO3. That's a plant nutrient, antibiotics, algefix etc etc etc etc etc are not. The focus is growing the plants, not becoming versed in algicdal products. I find them to totally useless. I might use H2O2. bleacj to clean equipment, but I jyust trim and vacuum the algae out, that never harms the plants and removes the problem. BGA/Green water need killed and removed, or they will come back after you correct the evnvironmental issues that caused the algae. A 3 day blackout 50% water at the start and the end Adding 1/4 teaspoon per 25 gal after each water change Then adding 1/4 teaspoon at least 1-2x a week thereafter will prevent BGA and other algae from ever bothering you. Your plants will grow much better as well. Algaefix, Antibiotics, Myacan, Snake oils will never make your plants grow better. 3 day blackout is free. Those are not. try ordering from Greg www.gregwatson.com Get: 2lbs or so KNO3 1 lb KH2PO4 1 lb Trace mix with Boron. Dirt cheap and these actually grow plants and are very easy to dose and add. BGA will infect a tasnk about 1-2 months after treatment. It's always there, so treating the reason why it appears..........poor plant growth(even if you might not think so) will help prevent any algae, not just BGA. Just do this and do all of this advice and you will not have any BGA. If you delete the KNO3, the BGA will simply come back. The fisgh should remain in the tank etc, turn off the CO2. The plants will be fine and live through 3 days of blackout, they are sent via mail and can easily handle 3 days in the dark. Regards, Tom Barr will |
In article ,
Shawn wrote: Where can I get KNO3 ? Is that availabe at a LFS ? I do weekly large water changes - nearly the entire tank actually, leaving just enough for the fish to keep swimming, before I refill. Then I treat with something called "ALGAEFIX". This knocked the crap out the BGA (as well as making the rest of my plants look quite poor), and I contined the treatment for several weeks, as it said in the directions. But once I stopped, with another couple weeks the BGA reappeared and gradually got worse again. I don't want to have to maintain my tank forever on medicine and chemicals. I ran it for the first 4 years without a single breakout. Ah, ok, the algaefix killed off the firendly bacteria and your tank is a now going through the algae succession that occurs with new tank syndrome. Change 80% of the water a day. On about the 4th day it should be almost all gone. Keep doing it till it is. Marcyn is overkill. Water changes alone will fix this, you don't need more chemnicals. You were right ion figuring out algaefix would eradicate BA though. kno3 is potassium nitrate. blue green alage thrices in low nitrate conditions. Hydroponics stores are the best source of this as nitrate from a petshop fertilizer bottyle is stupid expensive. Don't you just love that smell of blue gree n alage? -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
Hey, I am fighting with the same stuff. I had small patches at 30w of
light. Now that I run 150W I can hardly keep ahead of the stuff, I am going to try to control phosphates first. I'll let you know haow that turns out. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
In article . com,
steve wrote: wrote: Shawn you will never have good results at prevention/reoccurance without using KNO3. I took this advice and it has worked for me so far. I did the blackout for 4 days in my large tank and I make sure to add a small amount of KN03 weekly at water change time. I monitor the Nitrates and Phosphates throughout the week and only add KNO3 when the measurable nitrates are below 5ppm. A 3 day blackout 50% water at the start and the end Adding 1/4 teaspoon KN03 per 25 gal after each water change Then adding 1/4 teaspoon at least 1-2x a week thereafter will prevent BGA and other algae from ever bothering you. This is sound advice, as I recommended above. However, I think Tom is assumming we all have aquatic jungles with low fish loads when he advises to add KNO3 twice weekly thereafter. Sure, it will ward off BGA, but without sufficient plant growth you will suffer a green algae breakout in my experience. Keep in mind blue green algae (cyanobacteria) thrives in low nitrate environments so you shouldn't see it in a tank with a lot of fish. I don't bother withthe blackout, I want my plants to keep going. I just changes lots of water. This is, by the way the problem with using algicides such as peroxide or algae fix to eradicate the bactraial alage (staghorn, bba, cyanobacteria) whcih seems to be about the only kinds of alage this stuff kills - once it's killed the algae you now have the problems that your beneficial bacteria is gone and the rotting dead alage causes a larger ammonia problkem than you'd otherwise think. Your crypts will love you - mmmmmmmmm ammonia - but now you'll get the algae succession you get with a new tank. So, after using algicide youreally need to change massiuve amounts of water for a while IMO. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
In article .com,
spiral_72 wrote: Hey, I am fighting with the same stuff. I had small patches at 30w of light. Now that I run 150W I can hardly keep ahead of the stuff, I am going to try to control phosphates first. I'll let you know haow that turns out. If you eradicate all phosphates you'll have alage problems of a different nature - green spot alage only thrives with low or no phosphates. You want to keep a nominal phosphate level - plants absolutely need it and if they run out they'll stop growing and only the algae will then use the available light and remaining nbutrients. Change a LOT of water, this will cause the alage to wesken and release spores to try to stay alive. Change a lkot of wate the next day and you'll get rid of most of it. Keep doing it and each day you'll have less and you'll feel much happier about it. In a few days it'll be gone. Blue green thrives when the plants used up all the nitrates. Just don't run out of NO3 again and it won't come back. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
"Shawn" Spaketh Thusly:
I can't take it any more. I simply cannot beat or keep up with the blue-green algae outbreak I've had now for about 5 months. .... Thanks about it. Any other thoughts/advice would be well appreciated. I haven't seen any in any of my tanks for a while, but a few years ago I would get it periodically. Now, I was fighting spots of it and not a whole tank, but this cured mine for good: 1. Make sure your C02 levels don't fluctuate - keep it as steady as possible. 2. Never skip your water changes - ever (traveling out of state on business caused me problems). 3. Hydrogen Peroxide - the 3% drugstore brand. 1/4 oz. (that's one quarter of an ounce of the 3% type) in a 29G tank every two or three days. Apply with a turkey baster (I got to keep it, my wife didn't want it back, now it's a permanent part of my aquarium supplies) DIRECTLY on the worst spot. Do the happy dance as you see it bubble and listen for the BGA screaming in pain :-) You'll see results the next day. In a bigger tank you can do more, in a smaller do less. I was very conservative - this amount didn't hurt any fish and didn't even seem to hurt any bacteria - all my levels stayed the same. I was able to totally clear out an infestation about the size of a fist in a week. I got all the above info here on r.a.f.p, but it was several (3 or 4) years ago and I can't pin down the time frame close enough to find the thread. I remember that one person had used at least twice as much as I did and more often with only very minor problems, but I didn't want to take a chance so I went very easy with it. If there's no fish in the tank you can use more. Important: if conditions in the tank are right for it, it WILL come back. Find and fix the underlying problem while you're clearing it out, or you'll just have to do it again. And again. Good luck. Sorry I can't locate the original thread, it had lots of details on doses and other people's experiences. If you're patient you might be able to google it up. -- Bill H. [my "reply to" address is real] www.necka.net Molon Labe! |
Hey, I think I just found out last night why I am growing so much BGA.
I stopped by the LFS on the way home from work and bought a phosphate test kit. From what I have read it should be 0-1mg/L..... The test kit measured 0-5mg/L....... clear to blue. Mine registered off the scale..... It was a deep purple. Guess I need to take some steps to fix that ASAP. I figure I can buy those phosphate absorbing pills or add A LOT more plants...... or both. What do y'all think? my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote:
Hey, I think I just found out last night why I am growing so much BGA. I stopped by the LFS on the way home from work and bought a phosphate test kit. From what I have read it should be 0-1mg/L..... The test kit measured 0-5mg/L....... clear to blue. Mine registered off the scale..... It was a deep purple. Guess I need to take some steps to fix that ASAP. I figure I can buy those phosphate absorbing pills or add A LOT more plants...... or both. What do y'all think? my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html 50% weekly water changes will help a lot. Bob |
"Bob Alston" wrote in message
news:9poQd.13251$Zr.10304@okepread03... 50% weekly water changes will help a lot. Bob unless there is phosphate in the replacement water or the dechlorinator spiral, check the phosphates in your tap water if that is what you use. Also, do you use anything like neutral regulator or ph right, etc...? -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
No actually I quit using pH 7.0 about 6 months ago. I saw a post about
phosphate buffers and sure enough.... the stuff was a phosphate buffer. Currently I use NO chemicals at all and about 1 teaspoon of phosphate free carbon (Black Diamond) in only one of the filters. I am doing a 30% water change with a vacuum every Saturday just to stay ahead of the BGA while I try different things. I am going to test my tap (well) water tonight, thank you. I have tried blackout... it works but only temporarily. My problem is pretty advanced. In 3-4 days I have a good covering, primarily on the right side of the tank. This is the side with only two java ferns and the whisper filter. My plants are primarily on the left. I would say my tank maintenence is pretty good although I am still learning. I will NOT start the tank over. What will I learn from that? It may very well be coming from my tap water.... that'll be great. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
Margolis wrote:
"Bob Alston" wrote in message news:9poQd.13251$Zr.10304@okepread03... 50% weekly water changes will help a lot. Bob unless there is phosphate in the replacement water or the dechlorinator spiral, check the phosphates in your tap water if that is what you use. Also, do you use anything like neutral regulator or ph right, etc...? Agree it is possible. But in my experience more likely from the flake food and overfeeding. Bob |
In article .com,
spiral_72 wrote: Hey, I think I just found out last night why I am growing so much BGA. I stopped by the LFS on the way home from work and bought a phosphate test kit. From what I have read it should be 0-1mg/L..... The test kit measured 0-5mg/L....... clear to blue. Mine registered off the scale..... It was a deep purple. Guess I need to take some steps to fix that ASAP. I figure I can buy those phosphate absorbing pills or add A LOT more plants...... or both. What do y'all think? I think you havn't been changing water enough. The absorbing pillow will take longer than you want to wait to work. Change 80% of the weater till it's gone then doweekly 50% changes. Test your tapwatrer for phosphatre. What do you fed? (some foods are higher in PO4 than others) Do you use carbon? (It can leech phosphate) -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
I feed TetraMin flakes for tropical fish and four sinking cat pellets
once a day about 7pm. Also about every week and a half I feed frozen blood worms to replace the flake. I do use carbon, Black Diamond (pakage says phosphate free)..... a very small amount (1 tsp) in one filter bag replaced monthly. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote:
I feed TetraMin flakes for tropical fish and four sinking cat pellets once a day about 7pm. Also about every week and a half I feed frozen blood worms to replace the flake. I do use carbon, Black Diamond (pakage says phosphate free)..... a very small amount (1 tsp) in one filter bag replaced monthly. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html To test for phosphates in your carbon, set up your phosphate test with distilled or RO water and drop a few grains of carbon into it. (Reefkeepers' trick). I believe you're right that Black Diamond does actually test phosphate free but it can't hurt to try. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
"Bob Alston" wrote in message
news:yvqQd.13255$Zr.12796@okepread03... Agree it is possible. But in my experience more likely from the flake food and overfeeding. I can't see how overfeeding could get it to go off the scale. Even a whole can of flake with a high phosphorous content wouldn't get it that high I wouldn't think. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
I tested my tap water last night.... 0.25mg/L of phosphate
I wasn't real sure what to do. I cleaned the tank again last night. The stuff is growing at a tremendous rate. It has attacked my java ferns, driftwood, rock and gravel but for the most part it has left my Amazon Swords alone. I can't get over it grows primarily on the right side. I will test my carbon tonight. I use so little of it, I doubt that's it. I really do clean quite well, so I doubt it is fish/food waste. I am scared it will be my substrate. It doesn't really make any sense to have an outbreak after a year of being setup though. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
Oh, I am running a blackout starting last night. With any luck I can
get regain some control of this thing. What do you think? I read in a book (I think) that algae can only take advantage of a long period of light, while plants can take some advantage of several shorter periods. Any experience with that? Could I run my lights for just two hours several times a day and cut down on algae growth? my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
Spiral,
Rather than going 5 different directions about algae, focus on the dang plants! Take care of their needs. The PO4 issue could be the test kit, you are relying all the issue on that, that has NOTHING to do with BGA or outbreaks of algae unless it's too low. Tell me, anyone, what is the difference between 2ppm of PO4 and say 5ppm of PO4 regarding algae, will one cause algae ansd the other will not? I've dosed 1-2ppm of PO4 in my tanks for oh..........about 15 years ..........where is my algae? I'll tell you, it's not there and PO4 excess does not cause algae in a well planted tank. Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure will................... It';s simply much easier and straight forward for a new person to focus on the plant's needs. I am over playing the notion of NOT using antibiotics because it's an easy solution to a more complicated issue. KNO3 is what the tank is lacking, not antibiotics. Blackout and antiobiotics merely kill what's there, it does NOT solve your issue. Ask your self this: why do I have algae? Poor plant growth. When the plants are growing well, you have no algae. So focus on the plants. Any plant can handle a 3 day blackout, if you fail to add the KNO3 back, the BGa will come back in a few days, if you fail to add the KNO3 doing the antiobiotic, it'll come back in 1-2 months, perhaps longer if you feed more etc or somehow start adding more Nitrogen. The blackout allows you to repeat the KNO3 test and shows you rather quickly that the lack of KNO3 encourages a BGA bloom. It would have taken me years to figure that out using antibiotics.............so pills don't teach you much either. Stay healthy and you don't get sick and need pills/algae fix, Copper etc, so keep your plants healthy. Rather than the quick fix, look at the long term solution, then folks can get back to talking about plants and not algae ......... This is much easier and actually deceptively simple. Regards, Tom Barr |
In article .com,
wrote: Tell me, anyone, what is the difference between 2ppm of PO4 and say 5ppm of PO4 regarding algae, will one cause algae ansd the other will not? I've dosed 1-2ppm of PO4 in my tanks for oh..........about 15 years ..........where is my algae? It's here in one of my tanks. Do you want me to mail it to you or something? *******. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
Sure. Send it, I'll tell you the species too.
My pioint is really, if the algae likes excess, why don't we see it in tank with obvious excess levels of NO3 and PO4, light, CO2, Fe/traces, K+, Ca, Mg ?????? Surely excess is 2ppm of orthophosphate(DIP) which is the most bioavailable form of PO4. How is that different than say 5ppm? How much is too much PO4? I have no practical reason to dose more than 2ppm but I'd like to know what range causes problems... I really do not know of an upper limit. If you have some concrete data, that would be interesting. Regards, Tom Barr |
Well, as much as all that hurt my feelings...... You might have a
point. With the exception of my banana plant, my plant growth is slow to almost stopped. "How much is too much PO4?" I've not seen any concrete data either, but since the test measures 0-5mg/L and assuming the manufacturer is the expert (Hagen) I figgered 5 was way too much..... and about 2.5 was acceptable (middle of the test range), while 0 or 2.5 was ideal. Is that a ridiculous assumption? After all, what good is a gauge if it reads something other than an ideal or expected quantity? Just for the record I changed about 30% water in my 55g this weekend with 0.25mg/L tap water. Before and after the water change, the test measured purple (off the scale.) I soaked a handful of my carbon (new, out of the can) in 16oz of clean tap water... The water was 0.25mg/L PO4 before and after I mixed the carbon. I tested my peat (new) using the same method.... no change in PO4 before and after. I broke off a small piece of the substrate fertilizer I use.... No change. Therefore, it appears PO4 is leeching from my substrate or I have decaying fish waste laying everywhere (which I don't.) The way I figure it, I can: 1.Sell everything, and give up. 2.Continue to clean the tank twice a week and hope things clear up. 3.Buy lots of plants and/or some PO4 "sponge" and wait. 4.Take Tom Barr's suggestion and: dose (KNO3) Potassium Nitrate (How do you know mine is low?) "Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure will............." (NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected. Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking down.....forms of organic waste. GH is 7d(125ppm) a little on the soft side. PO4 is very high.... that's what I am concerned with CO2 by calculation is about 8ppm. Not too bad right?.... a little low (K) Potassium.... I have no idea. So, not to start a fight...... What is wrong with this picture? I ask questions to learn. The phosphates are the only thing I can find that are out of the ordinary. I don't have a test kit for everything. That would cost hundreds of dollars. While I agree that low plant growth must be an indicator of something, I expect to run some extra CO2 and they will flourish. No? Maybe not. Do I purchase some leaf fertilezer with iron and all the trace elements and give that a shot? I think I am going about finding a solution fairly methodically. I sure hope when this is all finished, someone can search for BGA in Google and find this trial with a solution. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote: dose (KNO3) Potassium Nitrate (How do you know mine is low?) Use a nitrate, NO3, test kit. KNO3 is a molecule composed of elements O, N and K. You knew that, anyway, yes? "Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure will............." NO3 is a constituent of KNO3, so is K. (NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected. That's your problem. The plants can't use up any further P if N is zero, hence your high PO4 or P. Your plants are craving for nitrogen! Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking down.....forms of organic waste. What? Nitrates = NO3. Dosing KNO3 is dosing your tank with nitrates, plus some potassium. I don't think the plants really care about its source. Nikki |
"spiral_72" wrote in news:1109008752.449041.270760
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Well, as much as all that hurt my feelings...... You might have a point. With the exception of my banana plant, my plant growth is slow to almost stopped. ....... "Now poor CO2, lack of NO3, K, traces, GH, PO4 etc sure will............." (NO3) Nitrates is zero. With my low fish load. it's to be expected. Lots of people run a very low fish load planted tank. You can't dose Nitrates. Can you? Nitrates are generated by bacteria breaking down.....forms of organic waste. GH is 7d(125ppm) a little on the soft side. PO4 is very high.... that's what I am concerned with CO2 by calculation is about 8ppm. Not too bad right?.... a little low (K) Potassium.... I have no idea. Hey spiral, just a quick note a fellow aquarist who had a similar problem... Tom's is the way go to. I've been down the limiting ferts route, especially phosphates, and it never really worked and if it did work the plants didn't do well. Now I actually still have little visable traces of algae around in my tank, so I know I'm not clean and it could grow, but it just doesn't. It still took me a little tweaking of using lots of fert and CO2 to get it working. I have a larger than usual for a fully planted tank (at least compaired to the pics you see on the web) so I personally use less NO3 and I vacuum my gravel whenever I move plants from that spot. The nice thing is while you are working on getting the balance right, even if you have algae at least your plants are going gangbusters and that's encouraging.... that PO4 will probably get sucked up by the plants (it's just amazing) and just disappear unless you got a real hard PO4 source in your gravel. I'll let Tom do the work and give you the details but I'll tell you right now that CO2 is way way low. I'm around upper 20s to 30ppm CO2. There's a note on most charts saying above 20 is bad but I haven't seen a hint of a problem. Luck, don't give up ;) Pete. PS. if that banana plant is anything like mine, once you get your tank really running it will take over. It turned into one of those giant ferns people use in the corned of their office.. it's massive. |
Um, I didn't know plants could use KNO3 for nitrate. Duh...... I've
just made a note of that. Well Tom. It looks like you might be "the man" and I need to get the CO2 Bomb running or a yeast-CO2 generator for temporary. Looks lke I need to dose some for of nitrates too. I figure theoretically I COULD add lots of fish for the nitrate, I think I'll do the dosing for right now. Man, the fish are easy to keep compared to these plants! On the other hand, what am I doing? I saw a place on the net selling BGA. Imagine that! I could have a regular farm here. Thanks for all the help, really. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote: Um, I didn't know plants could use KNO3 for nitrate. Duh...... I've just made a note of that. Well Tom. It looks like you might be "the man" and I need to get the CO2 Bomb running or a yeast-CO2 generator for temporary. Looks lke I need to dose some for of nitrates too. I figure theoretically I COULD add lots of fish for the nitrate, I think I'll do the dosing for right now. Well Spiral, Let me tell you a little story about a boy and his fish. You see, in the beginning, there was a boy who wanted to keep fish in a square tank made of glass. He kept fish in the water, everyone was happy. Some fish lived longer than others, some were lucky enough to die of old age instead of cats, broken heaters, broken tanks, chlorine poisining and other man made ailments. Then one day the man realized he wasn't a boy any longer, yet he still wanted to keep fish in glass tanks, but he had alot more money and he could keep more fish in more water. These fish too, like their ancestors, lived pretty much happy lives and some lived a long time. Now the man, wanting to broaden his horizon and venture into new aquatic worlds, tried keeping plants alive under water. "Heck, dahlias are easy enough to grow outdoors in a totally uncontrolled environment, it should be easy to keep aquatic weeds in water!" http://Aquaria.Info/members/ervis/ The above site doesn't go into much detail on the real learning adventure involved. Tom helped me a great deal. He also led me down the primrose path to madness at the same time. :) I was about where you are at now, when I started dumping in the ferts. Holy crap! Can you ever grow algae with lots of light and nutrients! What I was lacking was enough plants, lots of plants. Thick healthy plants. Only when I'd covered the bottom of my tank with plants and plant bunches did I see the algae finally take a backseat. From what you've learned so far, you're on the right track. Here's what I learned in short form. Kill BGA with a blackout. Dose KNO3 using the fert calculator on chucks aquarium pages. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm Measure your Nitrates and Phosphate if you have those kits, and dose accordingly. With your zillion watt lights, you're going to have to have additional C02. If you aren't adding any artifically, then your level is between 2 and 3 ppm. See the C02 calculator chart on Chucks Aquarium pages. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm With C02, measurable levels of NPK in the ratio of 8:1:16, you'll be amazed at how fast the plants grow and even more amazed to see the remaining algae just sit there, sad, uneven to spread beyond the little rock you've left it on. steve |
My LFS guy said to use Sierra (SP?)flakes instead of TetraMin and
discontinue my sinking pellets for the Corys. He thinks the TetraMin flakes are high in animal content and my little fish can't do anything with the sinking pellets, thus they just dissolve into the gravel. I thought that's what they were supposed to do actually. I thought the cats picked up all the little pieces, but apparently not. With all that stuff decaying, that would account for some of the phosphate. I just can't believe I don't vacuum enough if that is the case. Any thoughts on this? I am trying to find a local supplier or KNO3 too. Oh, Steve. Ya gotta pretty nice tank! Nice job. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote:
My LFS guy said to use Sierra (SP?)flakes instead of TetraMin and discontinue my sinking pellets for the Corys. He thinks the TetraMin flakes are high in animal content and my little fish can't do anything with the sinking pellets, thus they just dissolve into the gravel. I thought that's what they were supposed to do actually. I thought the cats picked up all the little pieces, but apparently not. With all that stuff decaying, that would account for some of the phosphate. I just can't believe I don't vacuum enough if that is the case. Any thoughts on this? I am trying to find a local supplier or KNO3 too. Oh, Steve. Ya gotta pretty nice tank! Nice job. my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html I've never heard of that brand of fish food. I've always had fish do well on TetraMin but if you want to change foods, how about one of the Hagen NutraFin series? They're formulated to be low in phosphate. As for sinking pellets, Hikari makes a sinking wafer that doesn't dissolve into mush in the gravel the way the Tetra one does. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes
something like this: Sto Hello? Me: Yea, I have a real quick question, do you sell potassium nitrate? Sto Sto Me: Hello? Sto Um Me: Y'know? It's used in plant fertilization. Sto Um, I dunno. Me: Ok, I guess not. Thank-you. click my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html |
spiral_72 wrote: I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes something like this: Try calling garden shops, nursury's or hydroponic stores. Also, some old fashioned hardware stores, maybe Ace hardware, will carry stump remover. A few brands of stump remover are pure Potassium Nitrate. steve Or, if you can wait, order from Greg Watson dot com. |
spiral_72 wrote: I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes something like this: Sto Hello? Me: Yea, I have a real quick question, do you sell potassium nitrate? Sto Sto Me: Hello? Sto Um Me: Y'know? It's used in plant fertilization. Sto Um, I dunno. Me: Ok, I guess not. Thank-you. click http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nitrate.htm |
1 Attachment(s)
On 22 Feb 2005, you wrote in rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:
I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes something like this: Sto Hello? Me: Yea, I have a real quick question, do you sell potassium nitrate? Sto Sto Me: Hello? Sto Um Me: Y'know? It's used in plant fertilization. Sto Um, I dunno. Me: Ok, I guess not. Thank-you. click my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html Might take some hunting around especially in the US, as potassium nitrate is an explosive component and hydroponic stores have also been hit due to people growing herbs instead of tomatoes. Had a few people in Canada (Vancouver mainly) being raided because police wrote down their car licence plate when they visited a hydropinic store buying MH bulbs and ferts, and then later raiding their house. But if you have any hydroponic stores in your area they will have it. Well you need to get that CO2 way up before dosing all your ferts anyway and fully stock your tank with plants. I'm attaching a crummy pic (cheap camera and tank still in process of growing in, but took it as my tiger lotus was flowering :P ) to show what full density is. BTW the stuff on the top (you can see the roots hanging) is called water lettuce in laymans term and is great for sucking up extra nutrients. For an idea of DIY CO2 to get proper CO2 levels. I have two 4L plastic containers that feed into the intake of my canister filter. I recharge one bottle a week and have them offset (one changed on the weekend, one mid week). The solution is two cups of sugar and 1tsp of baking yeast. It takes that much to keep my 87Gal planted tank with enough CO2. Biggest problem people have with DIY is they don't go big enough and thus don't get enough CO2. BTW measure CO2 at the END of the day, just when the lights go off. Cheers Pete. Hope the pic attaches, never tried it before with this news reader. |
spiral_72 wrote:
I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes something like this: Sto Hello? Me: Yea, I have a real quick question, do you sell potassium nitrate? Sto Sto Me: Hello? Sto Um Me: Y'know? It's used in plant fertilization. Sto Um, I dunno. Me: Ok, I guess not. Thank-you. click my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html Oh, geez. LOL! KNO3 is a bomb and gunpowder ingredient! Not as bad as ammonium nitrate, but could still give people pause. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T Spaketh Thusly:
spiral_72 wrote: I seem to be having a tough time finding local KNO3. It usually goes something like this: Sto Hello? Me: Yea, I have a real quick question, do you sell potassium nitrate? Sto Sto Me: Hello? Sto Um Me: Y'know? It's used in plant fertilization. Sto Um, I dunno. Me: Ok, I guess not. Thank-you. click my aquarium page, info and pics at: www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html Oh, geez. LOL! KNO3 is a bomb and gunpowder ingredient! Not as bad as ammonium nitrate, but could still give people pause. It's also the only ingredient in Green Light brand stump remover. Usually can be found at Ace hardware or Walmart. I got a lifetime supply (1 lb.) for 5.49 a few years ago. Mix it 50/50 with sugar and it burns real nice, in case you want to get rid of that stump real fast :-) -- Bill H. [my "reply to" address is real] www.necka.net Molon Labe! |
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