I recently purchased what had been sold as young Aponogeton crispus at a
local, well-known store. At the store, these bulbs had very short leaves
on them that I assumed at the time were due to the fact that almost all
the substrate of the 10g tank they were kept in was covered in bulbs so I
thought perhaps growth was stunted due to lack of nutrients. I put them in
a bag outside for a couple of weeks to give them a dormancy period (temps
were above freezing at night and never more than 60F during the day) and
then put them in a new tank setup. They've since started sprouting
vigorously, enough for me to tell they are not A. crispus. The giveaways
are that the green leaf growth is extremely short, no more than 2-3 inches
tall. These leaves are much healthier appearing and numerous than the
leaves they had at the shop so I don't think the short height has to do
with nutrient deficiencies. The real indications that they are not pure A.
crispus is that each bulb has multiple rosettes (leaf clusters if you
will) sprouting from it and one bulb has sent up two floating leaves.

So now the question is what do I have. The submerged growth is green and
undulated. The floating leaves are elongated with a more reddish brown
color. The floating leaves are definately oval shaped, not heart shaped as
one might expect of a Nymphae species that sometimes gets mixed in with
Aponogeton bulbs. I was leaning towards perhaps A. natans as that would
explain the floating leaves, but cannot find a good description of their
submerged leaves to know if the multiple rosettes of short undulated green
leaves is consistent. It could of course also be a hybrid I know. It has
not yet sent up a flower stalk to see what that looks like.

Any ideas on what they are?

Aponogeton crispus never produced floating leaves, ever, but hybrids
abound or it might actually be natans which is a pretty worthless plant
for aquariums.

Crispus is having a hard time. I've been told by many people it's extinct
in the wild. Whether this is true I don't know but it has been for me
imposible to find. You have to "settle" for lungiplumulosus, capronii
or the live bearing stachysporousd/undulatus. long. looks like
crispus, capronii has radically undulated leaves that look almost
corkscrew.

At least one online vendor claims to be raising crispus from tank bred
seed stock. This is IMO a very good thing and should be encouraged.

http://www.aquariumlandscapes.net/wh...nts/plants.cfm

It was only 5 years ago that somebody gave me a bag of 20 crispus bulbs,
wild collected, for free "too cheap to bother with, just take them". I
guess that's part of the problem, with the usual habitat destruction
issues thrown in for good measure.

The sale of hybrids as crispus is nowhere near new, it's documented
in plant books from the 1960's. Real crispus is a great plant and I
hope it makes a comeback. Keep in mins Aponogetons don't really have a
rest period, they just run out of nutrients. Theyt're massivly heavy feeders.


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Richard Sexton wrote:

The sale of hybrids as crispus is nowhere near new, it's documented
in plant books from the 1960's. Real crispus is a great plant and I
hope it makes a comeback. Keep in mins Aponogetons don't really have a
rest period, they just run out of nutrients. Theyt're massivly heavy feeders.


Every now and again you write something that fascinates me. Everything
I've read (not that it's correct) says Aponogetons require a rest
period. Can an Aponogeton that's slowing down be revived by moving it
to another spot in the substrate, then? Or by root feeding with a bit
of water lily tablet that has NPK?

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

I've read (not that it's correct) says Aponogetons require a rest
period. Can an Aponogeton that's slowing down be revived by moving it
to another spot in the substrate, then? Or by root feeding with a bit
of water lily tablet that has NPK?

I was told this by Jom Robinson about 1991 or so aftr losing a few
and I never got the dormant thing to work. I did as he suggested
and stuck a planttab under the roots whenever it slowed down,
about 6-12 weeks. I had a lacepant one that utterly filled a 40 gallon
long tank.

This image:

http://images.aquaria.net/users/r/rs.../sjotank28.jpg

is shot longways down the side of that tank. The bulb is actually
on the other end of the 3' tank; that leaf measured 6" wide. The
plant had been growing steadily for two years.

I assume Aponogetons can handle a dormant period, not that I ever
got it to work, but I'm convinced now they don't need one.

Occasionally you'll see a reference in literature regarding this,
but they're infrequent. Aquarium Heute has one that I noticed last week
in a 25 year old issues. Old myths die hard :-)

None of my Aponogetons need it yet but I'll probably use Pushak's
clay ball recipe this time round.

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Richard Sexton wrote:
Aponogeton crispus never produced floating leaves, ever, but hybrids
abound or it might actually be natans which is a pretty worthless plant
for aquariums.

I'm doubting if there's any crispus in it even if it's a hybrid. I would
expect longer submerged leaves than just a couple of inches if there was
some crispus. I do have a few cripus (probably hybrids, picked them up at
an auction several years back) in another tank but they've only produced 1
seed in several years otherwise I'd have used them for this new tank.

Crispus is having a hard time. I've been told by many people it's extinct
in the wild. Whether this is true I don't know but it has been for me
imposible to find. You have to "settle" for lungiplumulosus, capronii
or the live bearing stachysporousd/undulatus. long. looks like
crispus, capronii has radically undulated leaves that look almost
corkscrew.

I've pretty much prepared to get hybrids whenever anyone sells "crispus",
but this purchase was so far off from expected that I'm a wee bit miffed.
I should have known better than to trust that shop with plant IDs though.
It's a large LFS, long established, but definately more into fish and
supplies than plants.

Anyways, I was able to get my digital camera and new machine to talk to
each other successfully today, so here's a few photos:

Clump of submerged leaves with no floating leaves yet:
http://www.shwaine.com/image/apon_submerge.jpg

Underside of two floating leaves:
http://www.shwaine.com/image/apon_float.jpg

Richard Sexton wrote:
I've read (not that it's correct) says Aponogetons require a rest
period. Can an Aponogeton that's slowing down be revived by moving it
to another spot in the substrate, then? Or by root feeding with a bit
of water lily tablet that has NPK?


I was told this by Jom Robinson about 1991 or so aftr losing a few
and I never got the dormant thing to work. I did as he suggested
and stuck a planttab under the roots whenever it slowed down,
about 6-12 weeks. I had a lacepant one that utterly filled a 40 gallon
long tank.

This image:

http://images.aquaria.net/users/r/rs.../sjotank28.jpg

is shot longways down the side of that tank. The bulb is actually
on the other end of the 3' tank; that leaf measured 6" wide. The
plant had been growing steadily for two years.

I assume Aponogetons can handle a dormant period, not that I ever
got it to work, but I'm convinced now they don't need one.

Occasionally you'll see a reference in literature regarding this,
but they're infrequent. Aquarium Heute has one that I noticed last week
in a 25 year old issues. Old myths die hard :-)

None of my Aponogetons need it yet but I'll probably use Pushak's
clay ball recipe this time round.


Wow! I've never even attempted a lace plant. I keep too many fish in
my tanks. ;-) I had totally forgotten about the clay balls. I've been
actually been avoiding mail ordering some Aponogetons I wanted to try
because the mail order shop says that all but A. crispus require
dormancy. Now I have to decide which to get...

Thanks much for the info.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

I've pretty much prepared to get hybrids whenever anyone sells "crispus",
but this purchase was so far off from expected that I'm a wee bit miffed.
I should have known better than to trust that shop with plant IDs though.
It's a large LFS, long established, but definately more into fish and
supplies than plants.

Anyways, I was able to get my digital camera and new machine to talk to
each other successfully today, so here's a few photos:

Clump of submerged leaves with no floating leaves yet:
http://www.shwaine.com/image/apon_submerge.jpg

Underside of two floating leaves:
http://www.shwaine.com/image/apon_float.jpg

Don't give up on it yet, it could be A. echinatus. It's impossible
to identify it authoritatively until it flowers, which should do
after it puts out a bunch more floating leaves. Even if it's a hybrid
you can still identify the parents plants by the (color of the) flowers.

The Rataj and Horeman book has a key to genus Aponogeton.


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Wow! I've never even attempted a lace plant. I keep too many fish in
my tanks. ;-) I had totally forgotten about the clay balls. I've been
actually been avoiding mail ordering some Aponogetons I wanted to try
because the mail order shop says that all but A. crispus require
dormancy. Now I have to decide which to get...

Heh, I've seen it said that all but A. stachysporous require dormancy.

The only trick to laceplants is low temperatures. 74F is about max
and they're quite happy at 68 (and colder) which many plants aren't.

They like lots of light as do all Aponogetons.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

Richard Sexton wrote:
Wow! I've never even attempted a lace plant. I keep too many fish
in
my tanks. ;-) I had totally forgotten about the clay balls. I've
been
actually been avoiding mail ordering some Aponogetons I wanted to
try
because the mail order shop says that all but A. crispus require
dormancy. Now I have to decide which to get...

Heh, I've seen it said that all but A. stachysporous require
dormancy.

The only trick to laceplants is low temperatures. 74F is about max
and they're quite happy at 68 (and colder) which many plants aren't.

They like lots of light as do all Aponogetons.




Looks like Aponogeton natans with the floating leaves, and ulvacues
with the submersed wide leaves. The two crossed together is undulata if
I remember correctly. Those "short" wide leaves, will actually grow
quite long and stay just as wide. The floating leaves will multiply as
well. These two species hybridize in the wild quite easily.

Robert Hudson
www.aquabotanic.com
Join our forums!

Looks like Aponogeton natans with the floating leaves, and ulvacues
with the submersed wide leaves. The two crossed together is undulata if
I remember correctly. Those "short" wide leaves, will actually grow
quite long and stay just as wide. The floating leaves will multiply as
well. These two species hybridize in the wild quite easily.

Nah, undulata is the junior synonym for stachsporous (or vice
versa depending on the month :-)


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