Bob Hobden wrote:
"T r a v i s" wrote after "Bob Hobden" and "Sj" wrote
It's a problem for those who don't wish to be bothered
w/ yEnc, for whatever reason ... if the proper software
is used, the posting software automatically puts yEnc
in the header ... if not, the poster is using broken
software ... maybe people should let them know,
though some posters won't care ...

http://www.techsono.com/faq/yenc.html

Ah! So perhaps that's why I still can't see some yEnc posts despite
buying the necessary software to decode it automatically in OE.
Most annoying (or words to that effect!). :-)
Software to decode yEnc is free.

Yes there is free software but when I tried it you had to save the photo to
your PC and then do through a procedure to decode it, save it again and then
it might be viewable depending on the version of yEnc that had been used. I
do not save photos to my PC, even most of my own are put straight to DVD
unless I delete them first.
I paid for software that is supposed to work seamlessly with OE....we shall
see IDC!


I just tried a nother news reader, offered by a site that _promotes_
yEnc. Very enthusiastic, these people are. Think yEnc is the bees knees.

The program is called NewzTools, and is one of the worst I've ever seen.
Can't specify how many headers to download, doesn't fetch the ISP's
newshost's news group list, doesn't sort headers, and - oh, I don't know
what else. I gave up after trying it on alt.binaries.multimedia.rail. It
supposedly d/l 300 headers, but less than 100 showed on the screen. "Get
Older Posts" behaved erratically, sometimes adding just one header,
sometimes added a dozen or so.

Well, it was free, so I guess it was worth what I paid for it. ;-)

--
Wolf
'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.'

"Gerry D (Canada)" expounded:

I agree, Ann. Just because somebody says it is non-standard, will not prevent people from
posting yEnc encoded material. Just by sticking to what is "proper standard" material, you
are excluding yourself from many posts.

But then again, you and I are not missing out...

No, we're not. But you are missing out on Agent 4.2 still, I see.
Worth the $15 upgrade! I love having the pictures right in the post.
I guess it handles HTML e-mail, too, although I now use Thunderbird
for all of my e-mails. Go for it, Gerry! G
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Wolf" wrote in message
...
Gerry D (Canada) wrote:
I don't think the poster is broken, but rather the recipient. yEnc
has been around for so
many years that even slow MS should have been able to include it in a
new version of OE.
If they choose not to, they are missing the boat. Are they
self-serving or serving their
users? Pssst, I know the answer to that question...

Yeah, well, MS does conform to applicable international\web standards:
OE is built to receive and decode both MIME and uuencode (IIRC, it
uses MIME to send.) It so happens that newsreaders and e-mail clients
on all other platforms also conform to these standards. That's why you
can read an e-mail sent from somebody using a Mac or running on Linux,
for example. While there are lots of reasons to despise MS, this isn't
one of them.

YEnc is proprietary. MS can't simply include it in OE - they have to
make a deal with its owner, who appears to be a 1st class prat. Among
other things he has "improved" it several times in the worst way
possible: newer versions aren't backward compatible with older ones,
and/or he hasn't shared sufficient detail with the writers of
newsreaders. That's why T'bird, for example, will read some yEnc
posts, but not others. I've never bothered looking at the headers to
figure out what the difference/reason is. He's also refused to
co-operate with the international body that regulates web standards
such as packet formats, MIME, etc, without which the web wouldn't work
at all. Last time I looked at his website, he whinged about those
nasty standards people who expected him to pay out of his own pocket
for the submissions etc needed for that body to even consider adopting
yEnc as another encoding standard. IOW, he's the reason it's not a
standard, not the fact that the majority of plain ordinary computer
users don't use it.

Who is "he"?

If you want the widest possible audience for his or her posts, don't
use yEnc. MIME or uuencode works with _all_ newsreaders. Most people
nowadays buy a computer as an appliance - a machine that's ready to
go, doing all the things they want it to do. Why should they get
additional software to read a post in a non-standard format?

There are free newsreaders that decode yEnc.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

"Wolf" wrote in message
...
T r a v i s wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Sj" wrote
It's a problem for those who don't wish to be bothered
w/ yEnc, for whatever reason ... if the proper software
is used, the posting software automatically puts yEnc
in the header ... if not, the poster is using broken
software ... maybe people should let them know,
though some posters won't care ...

http://www.techsono.com/faq/yenc.html

Ah! So perhaps that's why I still can't see some yEnc posts despite
buying the necessary software to decode it automatically in OE.
Most annoying (or words to that effect!). :-)

Software to decode yEnc is free.


But why should anyone have to get additional software, free or not,
just to decode a message posted in a non-standard format?


No one has to get it.

Haven't you ever used additional software to perform some function that
isn't included with Windows or OS X? For instance .pdf files need a
..pdf reader and neither Windows or Apple make one.



--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"T r a v i s" wrote after "Bob Hobden" and "Sj" wrote
It's a problem for those who don't wish to be bothered
w/ yEnc, for whatever reason ... if the proper software
is used, the posting software automatically puts yEnc
in the header ... if not, the poster is using broken
software ... maybe people should let them know,
though some posters won't care ...

http://www.techsono.com/faq/yenc.html

Ah! So perhaps that's why I still can't see some yEnc posts despite
buying the necessary software to decode it automatically in OE.
Most annoying (or words to that effect!). :-)

Software to decode yEnc is free.

Yes there is free software but when I tried it you had to save the
photo to your PC and then do through a procedure to decode it, save it
again and then it might be viewable depending on the version of yEnc
that had been used. I do not save photos to my PC, even most of my own
are put straight to DVD unless I delete them first.
I paid for software that is supposed to work seamlessly with OE....we
shall see IDC!


yProxy is free, sits in the background and decodes yEncoded articles and
nothing needs to be saved before viewing. The pictures just appear like
they do when they are UU encoded.

Here is a link to yProxy. http://www.yproxy.com/45fa82be/ I use
yProxy13.exe.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

"Wolf" wrote in message
m...
Bob Hobden wrote:
"T r a v i s" wrote after "Bob Hobden" and "Sj" wrote
It's a problem for those who don't wish to be bothered
w/ yEnc, for whatever reason ... if the proper software
is used, the posting software automatically puts yEnc
in the header ... if not, the poster is using broken
software ... maybe people should let them know,
though some posters won't care ...

http://www.techsono.com/faq/yenc.html

Ah! So perhaps that's why I still can't see some yEnc posts despite
buying the necessary software to decode it automatically in OE.
Most annoying (or words to that effect!). :-)
Software to decode yEnc is free.

Yes there is free software but when I tried it you had to save the
photo to your PC and then do through a procedure to decode it, save
it again and then it might be viewable depending on the version of
yEnc that had been used. I do not save photos to my PC, even most of
my own are put straight to DVD unless I delete them first.
I paid for software that is supposed to work seamlessly with OE....we
shall see IDC!


I just tried a nother news reader, offered by a site that _promotes_
yEnc. Very enthusiastic, these people are. Think yEnc is the bees
knees.

The program is called NewzTools, and is one of the worst I've ever
seen. Can't specify how many headers to download, doesn't fetch the
ISP's newshost's news group list, doesn't sort headers, and - oh, I
don't know what else. I gave up after trying it on
alt.binaries.multimedia.rail. It supposedly d/l 300 headers, but less
than 100 showed on the screen. "Get Older Posts" behaved erratically,
sometimes adding just one header, sometimes added a dozen or so.

Well, it was free, so I guess it was worth what I paid for it. ;-)

I use Pan http://pan.rebelbase.com/ for multipart binaries and it is
free.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

buzz wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:15:38 -0400, Wolf
om

Gerry D (Canada) wrote:
I don't think the poster is broken, but rather the recipient. yEnc has been around for so
many years that even slow MS should have been able to include it in a new version of OE.
If they choose not to, they are missing the boat. Are they self-serving or serving their
users? Pssst, I know the answer to that question...
Yeah, well, MS does conform to applicable international\web standards:

You have failed to address the point.

yEnc is the predominant encoding for binaries in Usenet today. Period.
[...]


Well, I guess I don't subscribe to the groups that use it
"predominantly." What are they?



--
Wolf
'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.'

T r a v i s wrote:
"Wolf" wrote in message
[...]
I just tried a nother news reader, offered by a site that _promotes_
yEnc. Very enthusiastic, these people are. Think yEnc is the bees knees.

The program is called NewzTools, and is one of the worst I've ever
seen. Can't specify how many headers to download, doesn't fetch the
ISP's newshost's news group list, doesn't sort headers, and - oh, I
don't know what else. I gave up after trying it on
alt.binaries.multimedia.rail. It supposedly d/l 300 headers, but less
than 100 showed on the screen. "Get Older Posts" behaved erratically,
sometimes adding just one header, sometimes added a dozen or so.

Well, it was free, so I guess it was worth what I paid for it. ;-)

I use Pan http://pan.rebelbase.com/ for multipart binaries and it is free.



I checked the website, and see it's still a 0.xx release. Thanks for
then info. I might try it when it's gotten to 1.xx.

PS: did you catch the irony in "bees knees"?

--
Wolf
'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.'

"Wolf" wrote in message
m...
T r a v i s wrote:
"Wolf" wrote in message
[...]
I just tried a nother news reader, offered by a site that _promotes_
yEnc. Very enthusiastic, these people are. Think yEnc is the bees
knees.

The program is called NewzTools, and is one of the worst I've ever
seen. Can't specify how many headers to download, doesn't fetch the
ISP's newshost's news group list, doesn't sort headers, and - oh, I
don't know what else. I gave up after trying it on
alt.binaries.multimedia.rail. It supposedly d/l 300 headers, but
less than 100 showed on the screen. "Get Older Posts" behaved
erratically, sometimes adding just one header, sometimes added a
dozen or so.

Well, it was free, so I guess it was worth what I paid for it. ;-)

I use Pan http://pan.rebelbase.com/ for multipart binaries and it is
free.



I checked the website, and see it's still a 0.xx release. Thanks for
then info. I might try it when it's gotten to 1.xx.

PS: did you catch the irony in "bees knees"?


Try it now 0.131 works great. Pan 1.0 is very near to release.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

buzz wrote:


A bit of trivia that might interest you. Last September Giganews said
full feed was running about 2.7TB per day, and more recently mentioned
the total number of posts in 120 days was one Billion. Most of that is
binary and most of that, is yEnc.

Quite possibly that is because most people who post yEnc tend to post
floods.

Marutchi wrote:
buzz wrote:

A bit of trivia that might interest you. Last September Giganews said
full feed was running about 2.7TB per day, and more recently mentioned
the total number of posts in 120 days was one Billion. Most of that is
binary and most of that, is yEnc.

Quite possibly that is because most people who post yEnc tend to post
floods.




Yes, I've noticed that, too. Leastways on this a couple other NGs. Well,
some people think are the cat's pajamas, I guess.


--
Wolf
'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.'

buzz wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:11:11 -0400, Wolf
. com

buzz wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:15:38 -0400, Wolf
om
snip
Yeah, well, MS does conform to applicable international\web standards:
You have failed to address the point.

yEnc is the predominant encoding for binaries in Usenet today. Period.
[...]

Well, I guess I don't subscribe to the groups that use it
"predominantly." What are they?

No, one thing at a time. Do you understand that, to answer the
original question, yEnc is a simple and reliable method of encoding

Yes. Just like the other ones.

If yes, fine. I don't believe people need advice to decide what
reader they enjoy using.

Except of course for the ones who ask for advice... ;-)

_Most_ people don't want to be bothered getting additional software.
That's just a fact of life. Believe me, I've tried to persuade my
nearest and dearest to get better software than is supplied with their
"Windows computers", as they call them. No go.

Me, I've tried several newsreaders that do yEnc. Didn't like any of
them, for different reasons. Most of them are just clunky to use, and/or
give me insufficient control over what they do.

You know what I like best about T'bird? It asks you if you want to
download more than some minimum number of message headers.

Your objections were answered years ago by people who operate servers
on which these groups exist.

AFAIK, I made no technical objections except one: that yEnc is not a
standard. Yet. None of the info I found when I revisited several sites
(prompted by your comments, BTW) indicated otherwise. In addition, a
number of sites claimed that yEnc's virtue of reducing posted message
size is balanced and perhaps outweighed by a number of technical flaws,
flaws that it in part shares with the other two most widely used
encoding methods.

Answers aren't hard to come by Wolf, and
I think people are entitled to accurate information.

The relevant accurate information about yEnc is that works well most of
the time, but that some people can't be bothered using correctly written
posting software, so that a number of newsreaders choke on those posts.
That may may or may not matter.

The second fact is that OE, which is used by the vast majority of
computer owners these days, doesn't handle yEnc. To tell these people
that they should get more software so they can read your posts is IMO
idiotic. The first rule of any communication is Know Your Audience - and
adapt your message to them.

The third fact is that most computer owners don't in fact subscribe
Usenet newsgroups. They don't even know there is a Usenet...

Thanks for your posts. They prompted me to revisit a number of yEnc
promotional sites, which I suppose is a good thing. Not that my store of
useless information has increased by much, as I forget about as much as
I learn these days. ;-) I didn't know that Juergen Whoever had "released
yEnc into the public domain."

--
Take care,
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


--
Wolf
'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.'

It is not an odd format. If you use a news reader program, you will find
there are many benefits. The yEnc is actually a compression program offering
less upload and download time. A news reader will allow you to decode it
automatically. A good one is News Rover. Do a Google search on News Rover
and you will learn a lot. It is cheap software and very good.

Art

wrote:
It is not an odd format. If you use a news reader program, you will find
there are many benefits. The yEnc is actually a compression program offering
less upload and download time. A news reader will allow you to decode it
automatically. A good one is News Rover. Do a Google search on News Rover
and you will learn a lot. It is cheap software and very good.

Art

Why should we switch to some news reader that might have some security
holes (I'm not saying News Rover does)? MOST of us want to use the
SECURE software we NOW have.

If people want to use yEnc that is there choice but a lot of us are not
going to bother to decode and look at their pictures.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

Gardening for over 40 years

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

wrote:
It is not an odd format. If you use a news reader program, you will find
there are many benefits. The yEnc is actually a compression program offering
less upload and download time. A news reader will allow you to decode it
automatically. A good one is News Rover. Do a Google search on News Rover
and you will learn a lot. It is cheap software and very good.

Art

Well, Art, I don;'t mind yEnc posts, but theer is a problem which you
may not be aware of.

It's this:

There are many variations of yEnc and yEnc posting programs out there.
(The originator of yEnc released several versions of his format along
the way, which are mutually inconsistent.) This results in variations in
the headers to yEnc posts, which means that some newsreaders cannot
decode all yEnc posts. I've noticed for example that Thunderbird has no
problem with posts generated by PowerPost2002, but hiccups unpredictably
with others.

IMO it's this inconsistency that turns off a lot of people. That, and
the fact that Outlook cannot handle yEnc posts. Until yEnc is made an
ISO standard, and/or MS decides to support it, yEnc will be problem.

The compression issue is not a relevant issue anymore, as more and more
people are on broadband anyhow. Besides, the real waster of bandwidth is
spam, not binary posts on usenet.

I've tried NewsRover and other cheap/free newsreaders, and none of them
is even as good as Thunderbird, which IMO is poor second-best to PMNews
(built for OS/2 and never ported to other platforms, unfortunately.)

Bah!