Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 11-02-2006, 06:39 AM posted to rec.gardens
Ross A. Finlayson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grow-Tron, For Sale!

`Expert Cultivator Products

Unattended Solar Drip Irrigator

A five gallon bucket or dozens of feet of line to a reservoir
spike with wet meter waters accordingly, low profile solar cell/battery
pack
motion activated ultrasonic pest repeller

soil water content wireless sensor net, wireless pump activation


Grow-Tron

For maximizing fruiting plant yield and vigor

Super High Efficient LED and Compact Fluorescents

Space-age Light Emitting Diode technology!
All-Electronic Instant Start High Frequency Compact Fluorescent
Ballasts!

Water-resistant and case grounded low noise regulated power supply and
electronics.

Uses less power than two 100W incandescent bulbs with the
photosynthesis efficiency of dual 1000W MH/HPS!

Inner reflective, light-tight design promotes photoperiod control.

CO2 generation module, simply add yeast and sugar for maximum fruiting
yield! Air insertion to grow media! Optional electonically controlled
regulator, tank, and CO2 counter.

Water bath temperature control, humidity controller.

Fan-vented, optional charcoal filter/deionizer!

Locking, Stackable, Modular, Closet Cabinet Design, grow compact plants
or full height, stack modules in vertical space and other restricted
space applications.

Digital controller of all automatic functions! Programmable via simple
USB connector and provided software for Windows, Mac, and Linux. SDK
available.

Variable photoperiod real daylight emulation! Community strain
performance optimization download!

12/24 VDC, 115/120, 220/230 V 50/60 Hz AC operation! Optional solar
module + battery pack!

Automatic Ebb/Flow Hydroponic

Optional Ph/fertilizer buffering and management, water and power alerts

nutrient drip solutions

electric plant stimulator

Instructions included in five languages.

$1200

Plant respiration diagnostics, Aeroponic and optional zero-gravity root
aeration module and water/nutrient reclamation and processing, closed
system air loop.

Flown on the International Space Station

$14000

Recommended Accessories: a bucket. International Space Station not
included.


Germination Chamber.

"Also, current MEA-type scrubber designs require gravity to work."
http://www.asi.org/adb/04/03/05/mea-co2-scrubber.html

Peak stomatal opening: 450-460 nm

spectral region of plant response, 380-750 nm

red/far-red reversibility

658/667/ 677 nm, "not statistically different"

electric stimulation,

electrodes in the grow media are gently pulsed to partially ionize the
electrolytes in the water

mini-electrode clips are connected to the plant branches stimulating
fruiting yield


reservoir flood/drain hydroponic

need a timer, a pump

basically have the reservoir in the bottom, and a single drain that is
a trickle drain

then, the pump fills the tray, because the pump has such high volume,
then it trickles out, so as long as the drain doesn't clog, which it
won't if correct, then the plants don't flood

otherwise for longer duration soaks there's the notion of an
electronically controlled valve, to drain the tray

sometimes the reservoir needs to be changed out, that can involve a
siphon hose, basically a hose into the reservoir

the reservoir can be smaller, and repumped several times. It is
designed for short cycles anyways, so that the reservoir would be
changed out every week or two anyways, with a mind towards buffering
and controlling pH and nutrient densities.

The idea here is still to fit the lights into the tank. The tank needs
a light-tight lid to be able to control the photo period. If this CF
reflectors are 22" long, and the maximum height in the tank is 26",
then that is not really enough. to have both a reservoir and growing
media in the tank at a four inch depth, to flood the entire level of
grow media instead of having separate pot systems.

If I want the center light to be variable in height, then it needs to
hang on some chain system or have modular ladder plugs or something.
For example, it could be a circle with legs on it, so it can be lifted
and thread through posts on the side supports. Then it only has one
wire to it, and the wire length if managed. Then, it needs to have
supplemental cooling. so the fan(s) can be on that board, eg low speed
CPU fans. They should be somewhat moisture resistant.

So the board is all red LEDs. The CF lights on the sides are these
blue lights, and white lights. It is presumed that contact with any of
these lights is not going to hurt the plants or be a fire danger.

So I'm thinking some hundreds of LEDs would go into the tank.

So, that will involve getting some scores of LEDs, and then powering
them with a regulated power supply. Also, I might want to be able to
control pulsing of the LEDs.

So, then there will be three sides with CF lights, barriered into the
grow medium dealie, which will be smaller than the tank size. In that
way, the sides of the tank are out of the way, yet still care must be
taken that there is no overflow of the reservoir which might lead to
water contacting the bulbs which is not to be allowed.
That might be good for it to be round so it can be spun around in the
chamber.

LEDs are in terms of mcd, millicandles, then the idea is to get high
efficiency LEDs, and they're already pretty high efficiency as they are
targeted wavelengths, and so on.

then, find some fully electronic CF ballasts for 55W CF bulbs to power
three CF bulbs, they are to be wired into the control board, which will
have simple switches for connection to a simple timer circuit or so on.

temperature to fan / constant fan

germinate-
sprout

transplant to grow media

CF

transplant to pots

vegetate-
blue bulbs and CF

nutrient solution for veg

foliar application

train

flower-
red bulbs, blue bulbs, and CF

sex

nutrient solution for fruit

plain water for leech

foliar application

So, have in the LEDs separate circuits for the blue and red, or
separate circuits for the various blue and various red, or separate for
each bank of the various blue and various red

lots of small LEDs means lots of wiring. That can be accomplished
wiring sockets into prototype board material. Then that involves
finding LED sockets besides LEDs. That would be good though for
modular LED arrays, and bulb replacement.

making LED clusters - get some plastic or similar material and cut and
drill it and insert the LEDs through to a circuit board.

well maybe I should put the reds on the sides and have the blue light
only from above, for having the growth directed up, but then again if
the blue light is from all sides and mostly from above that's as well
and might encourage side growths. Reds again should be all over.

Traffic lights are what to get, 3 eight inch, 200mm, red traffic
lights, because they run at 15 or 20 watts and peak at 657 nm. The
green light's photometry has peak around 500 with dropoff to include
low amounts of lower frequencies. Basically these red lights are to
supplement the light in the flowering period. So there will be
wide-spectrum lights for most of it, and then fo phototropic growth
they should be reflected off of the roof deck of the thing. Then, in
the flowering period the reflective roof deck is replaced with these
red traffic bulbs that are selected for the highest red wavelength
available, but not more than 700 nm, preferably 660 nm. Then, those
might be aroud only 30w of lights, but they will be extra and be good.

The traffic lights are designed to match daylight visibility instead of
660nm P.A.R. which is indistinguishable to colorblind people, so the
LED traffic signal lamps are not very good for the application.
They're OK for chlorophyll b primary peak absorption, but not really.
Some of the older red LED traffic signals were 660, now they're not.

Then there's a question of what lights to select for the side lighting,
and it seems that the aquarilux type lights might be the best. Then,
consider, if the traffic lights are slimline, having _them_ on the
sides, and the aquarilux on the top. Because, like, a dozen 200mm red
lights could be put in there.

Those will be cheaper, plus, the LED lamps are dimmable.

So, then, the notion is to have the CF aquarilux on top, er, and then
the red 200mm 657nm two per side. Then, if those are 9w, that is
around 108w, that is a lot of heat to dissipate. Then, they are too
big, the entire sealed housing is almost 4 inches thick, that is too
big, but it is nice to be in a sealed housing.

So, get six of the "High Powered 24 LED Aquarium Jumbos" in Red, and 3
in Blue. Then have six around and three on top to be risen. Then, I
still want a broad spectrum light, but something simple, even just a
nightlight, because otherwise its complicated in the power supply. How
about just a white LED?

6 red
3 blue
3 white

runs 10-14.5V, Volts Direct Current, with 120 mA, milliamps and says
480000 mcd, millicandelas. That doesn't seem right in comparison to
the 3 and 8 LED deals.

120 * 12 = 1440 mA = 1.4 A

So the power supply could be producing 120 VDC? That doesn't seem
right. They have a wall-wart that runs 11.99 that is said to be able
to handle 13 of the 24 LED domes, so that should do, then a dimmer will
be included.

So, put the blue and white on the roof deck. Then, there might be two
power circuits, one for those and the other for the red ones, and that
would imply the use of two of those transformers.

So, the roof deck is raised to start the plants, and then when they are
forced into flowering the red lights are put in on the side panels.
Either that, or they are fixed in anyways, and just turned higher on
the dimmer for that.

So basically then in a box would be a transformer, grounded power line,
urkh, scary, two or maybe four or six biggish capacitors, two power
diodes, er, and a couple potentiometers with dials out the box, with
room in the box for more circuits if there is not enough, but there
should be quite a lot, of light. .

I think I might order 6 of the Red ones, 3 of the Blue ones, and 3 of
the White ones, and maybe a couple of the power adapters. I'm
interested in something with higher power factor than a regular
"wall-wart" style transformer/rectifier. I'd like to have a regulated
or rather current limited power supply so as not to ruin any of these
nice LED arrays, and also I would like to have dimmers or
potentiometers in line to manage the various levels of two circuits of
LED array, arrays, one circuit with the Whites and Blues and the other
with the Reds.

I've heard that if the LEDs are pulsed they can be overdriven safely.
I wonder about that. Because if a half-cycle pulsed operation at 24V
wouldn't hurt the LED, then I would consider just half-waving a 5:1
transformer to one or the other circuit with a dimmer on each leg.
Does that make sense? What about having a half-wave rectifier for a
circuit of six of the LED domes with a 10:1 transformer, and then the
other half to the other circuit? Would that have a higher power factor
than a transformer/full-wave rectifier? Then again it could be that a
capacitor network could be charged to a higher voltage on the capacitor
side and then drip through the current-limiting resistor to attenuate
the half-wave.

The dominant wavelength of those is still not where it is best for
photosynthesis. A diagram from
http://www.ccs-inc.co.jp/eng/bio/pro...cubator_i.html has peaks for
phytochrome R of 660 nm, and peaks for chlorophyll a and b at 430/662
and 453/642. The dominant and peak of the LEDs varies, so look for
640nm LEDs as they will peak at 660nm sometimes.

Red: GaAlAs, 660nm

Back to Compact Fluorescent / Power Compacts, with electronic ballasts.
Also it would be good to find these traffic lights with 660nm red
bulbs and a slim form factor.

Thinking about 24W lamps with the 2G11 base, straight four pi

  #2   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2006, 02:44 AM posted to rec.gardens
Ross A. Finlayson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grow-Tron, For Sale!

Back to Compact Fluorescent / Power Compacts, with electronic ballasts.
Also it would be good to find these traffic lights with 660nm red
bulbs and a slim form factor.

Thinking about 24W lamps with the 2G11 base, straight four pin, where
the blue marine lamps are available, then the notion is about getting
an actual electronic ballast for them, with the aquarium outfits saying
$40 and the magnetic ballasts being around $4. So, there are ballasts
for $31, and they run two 24W twin CF/PC apiece, at high frequency.
So, three of those is around a hundred dollars, and then figuring those
out is a deal, with getting locking lamp bases and hanging them
vertically from clips and having an open roofdeck. Then that can be
emplaced and start things and then the red LED accent lighting in the
centers and maybe with the trainlight come in later. The Blue RV
lights look good for a 475nm or so, which is kind of high, and they
describe 425nm violet LEDs, but not in the cheap clusters.

There is some question about phototropism, but as the blue light will
be equally spaced around the polygon, that should be OK.

Manufacturing the LED arrays:

broad spectrum light arrays, various
surface mount technology
cooling pipe, outlet to external heat sink, high temp. superconductor
modular power supplies

hydroponics and pots

want to be able to lift out the plants to prune them and so forth.
should be able to scaffold over for tie-downs.

nutrient reservoir(s) are compact in tank. consider having a rich
nutrient and a plain water nutrient, or ionized water.

so then there is a pump which pumps for a short time to fill either
each of the pots separately or together. That might involve a
distributor, eg a five way tap where the pump has enough power to run
each of them but not so much as to overflow and spray about. Then the
drain is a trickle drain right through to the holes in the
reservoir(s). It would be good to have one pump and two reservoirs, if
a clean reservoir is to be used, but that is not so important, with the
nutrient solution being changed every couple of weeks, and to plain
water at the end. So, there should be an outlet so the pump pumps the
water right out of the tank, and as well the reservoir should be
fillable from a spout at the tank edge. So, that involves some valves
on the line.

The pump and light timers will be part of the controls board. The pump
timer will basically have to start and stop the pumps. If the pump can
run dry and needs no prime, that is good. Otherwise it needs to be
timed carefully to stay primed and not run dry. It would be good to
have an inline pump, so then it would not actually be submerged in the
nutrient solution. There could be a ... water level sensor.

Maybe it is better to just use a drainback and set the pots on an open
drain tray, and then, the pump is to fill the tray, and then the drain
back is supposed to allow it to run basically continuously, and then
it's not run continuously.

without a pump, then I'm looking at some kind of manual pump.

It might be simpler to just grow in dirt, and water sometimes. The
pots can just be on a rack, watered daily to filling and then they
drain right out, and then reclaim the nutrient solution from the bottom
of the tank.

Then, the bottom of the tank just fills with the nutrient solution.
That is not so good if the reflective material covers the inside of the
tank walls. However, a rack in an open container might work just as
well. In that way, then, there would still be a requirement for a
siphon of sorts, which is what lungs are for. The siphon could be
primed and then plugged into the distributor, but that's complicated.
The rack could be raised and lowered into the bath, but that would
jostle the plants. If the scaffold is connected to the rack, that's
ok. As well, then the rack can be lifted out. So, the rack can be a
scaffold, and it is just raised and lowered into the bath once a day or
so. Then, the bath need be only as deep as the pots, and the pots fit
into the rack somehow. The rack could be just wire tied together, or
that would be pretty good.

CO2 generation - in the later stages of plant growth, after during
vegetative state the stomata are developed, then CO2 dosing starts.

Then, it would be a kind of weekly schedule, starting from germination
and going through as above.

So, the rack is a scaffold, and basically it is used to dunk into the
nutrients.

Then, I'd still want a imer for the lights. There's one timer for the
CF ballasts, and another for the DC LEDs, because I haven't seen a dual
timer. Then, there's the notion of having separate light circuits for
separate light times. If the actinics have so much blue light, then
maybe all the LEDs will be Red, and then it will be simple.

Put the tank on a base, then it will be easier to siphon out.

So, then I get some chili seeds and start growing. Start with the
reservoir and rack, and trellis. Get some pots and grow media, and
some nutrients. Get the CF bulbs, and set up that. Germinate the
chilis, then get them going.

One problem might be humidity, don't want it to be too humid. That
involves the ventilation, just get a DC fan and run it with the LEDs,
and maybe full time.

So, a parts list in order is something along the lines of:

mylar, lightproofing, lid, cover

reservoir

tubing

rack, scaffold

pots

power board

fan, fan power supply.

ballasts
bulbs
connectors
wires
power supply
timer

LEDs
LED clusters
power supply
timer

Those 24w compact fluorescents are looking pretty good, but it seems as
well that it might be much cheaper to just run cheap magnetic ballasts
and so forth, but having high power fluorescents or even a compact
fluorescent with integral ballast might be just easier. Yet, high
light output is key for this kind of thing. For example, 3 of the
ballasts can run 3 or 6 of those lamps, and that would be around $200.
Yet, with a hanger off the lid, then those could be much cheaper, as
anyways they will be reflected. Hanging off of the lid is one thing,
and another. Basically it involves a dropped reflective ceiling for
the fixture mount, and that should be ventilated itself. Then, it can
be lifted, but that involves complex cabling of some sort or tie and
clip or something along those lines.

Yet, I want the three 24w PC CF lights. So, that involves three
ballasts, to drive each equally, argh, and later six bulbs with the
same ballasts.

6 x 2G11 endcap
12 x lamp clip, maybe some rubber bands for the clips
3 x all-electronic high power factor high-frequency ballast
wiring

Then, they go on the walls. The LEDs will also be on the walls, with
the mongo train light on the top, or a reflective cone that is made
from mylar sheeted with a lock bolt to tent the roof. Having the roof
open allows the consideration of alternative lighting options.

square pin / straight pin, currently in the air

Then, the CF lights will be on vertical "inserts" of lath or something
similar, then they need to be attached correctly. Get the 3100K bulbs.

Then, about the LED systems, they will be the afterburner for the
thing. There are available lots of blue, Deep Blue, and then Orange
and then Red LEDs. I would get an orange LED traffic light that would
be good. Might as well just go with Luxeons.

Royal Blue Luxeon Stars...
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?i...rtno=LXHL-LR3C
@455 = Chlorophyll b secondary peak
The 1W emitters are on sale at futureestore.com @2.41, prob. forever

B.G. Micro 's Illuminator printed circuit boards.

Consider using the illuminator boards, then getting a hold of a bunch
of cheapish LEDs, and then having panels for: Blue a and B,
Phytochrome A and B , Orange, and so on, Far Red and Violet, and then
figure out where that should be set up.

  #3   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2006, 11:10 PM posted to rec.gardens
Ross A. Finlayson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grow-Tron, For Sale!

Those boards are set up nice and would make nice boards for LED arrays.
By the same token, they don't have a cap, they're not sealed. The
glue-gun might work to help seal the back of those boards, yet it is
still uncertain as to how they would be safest.

Then, light would be generated at the 660 and 620 nm, and the 430 and
450, and then some in the orange and maybe even some yellow and green,
but just as trivial accents. If red LEDs from 620 to 660 were used,
with concentration at the chlorophyll absorption peaks, then the idea
with those is to maximize PAR, photosynthetically active radiation.
Then, 600 and 610 are used for plants that reflect yellow and thus are
absorbing orange for some reason. On one hand it seems good to mix
those out in all the LED emitters, to have multiple LED emitters.

So then they LEDs would be designed, it depends on how many are in
series. For integer n of how many LEDs are in series, for a given
emitter if they are uniform in distribution then the additive
partitions of n describe different ways LEDs can be combined. Then, it
seems the general notion is to have like mucho red / some blue / trace
others. Yet, perhaps I should focus on having two types of emitters:
red and non-red, or three, red, blue, and supplemental. Then, the
supplemental ones could be traded out for different plants.

So, then if I got a couple hundred red LEDs, and scores of blue and
some orange ones, then they would be pretty good. Something along the
lines of running each series at 25V for matching, and then having
around 25V of LEDs in an array, would have around 10 Red LEDs, a couple
or three blues, and an orange. Might also be useful to have some
yellow for the xanthallum? carotenoid xanthophyll. flavoproteins:
cryptochrome. Well, xanthophyll is a yellow pigment, it is being
absorbing the orange, it's a carotenoid

Then, some lights are only to be applied at various periods. For
example, the far-red might be decreasing germination, which is bad, but
it might also lead to shorter dark periods in flowering.

UV-A, UV-B? various other considerations of supplements to the
lighting. 36 is quite a handful of LEDs, if the 36 LED PC boards are
used. UV-A, is absorbed, UV-A, ca. 370 nm Maybe some green for the
anthocyanin? Cannabinoid - derived from terpene. Cannabis is one of
the very most gourmet cultured plants.

Nutrients:

Dolomitic Lime - calcium-magnesium carbonate, USP pH,
Epsom Salts - magnesium sulfate, soluble magnesium, good stuff
Garden Grade Gypsum - calcium sulfate
calcium nitrate
Saltpeter - potassium nitrate
urea

manganese? trace?

aluminum: toxic to plant roots

http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/link.htm#hydro

pH should be acidic, how acidic? "6.5"

consider some mycrorhizzal culture
bake some good dirt and put it in


water pretreatment
air a day or two
add hydrogen peroxide

various nutrient mixes per the above.

chelated trace minerals, very small quantities

germination will be very key. That will basically happen with the
dark/damp/warm method, and then the seedlings will be put into a grow
media and put under a CF light. Then, after about a week, they go in
the tank.

LEDs

5mm 660nm 10mA 2000mcd
L513LRC from ledOPTO, www.azo-store.com, on sale @ 0.06

5mm 430nm 20mA 350mcd
http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/L200-UB500/ L200CUB500N-3.8
428/464, $20/10, 4.0/4.5@20mA 55mcd@40
for their superblues, 461/466nm, they want $23/10, 3.5/3.8V@20mA,
1200mcd@45
for the chl-b, 638/626nm, they want $28/25, 2.2/2.6V@20mA, 6300mcd@22
orange, ~$20/25

http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=z.pricelist.led.diode
A 5mm flat-top 460nm deep blue CREE diode
460, $0.46/1, 1200mcd@60

http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html

a good-looking orange LED at www.theledlight.com, but it was funny
epitex.com has soome good looking LEDs, hard to order
digikey might have some cheapish amber/orange LEDs, need to nail down
xanthophyll peak absorption
ledshoppe.com, great looking LEDs, small viewing angle. Very good
pricing.

Well, I really need to figure out the deal with viewing angle unless I
want to find out that the power only applies to the viewing angle,
because those LEDs have an angle of it says around 8 degrees. For
example, the 40 degree ones say 55 mcd.

If I make all the clusters the same, well, that's one thing. But I
could make ten clusters of those, with one of those LEDs per, in having
clusters with, say, 24 or 36 LEDs, the rest red ones. Then, with ten
clusters, one on each wall and four on the roof, and then ten clusters
of primary red/blue hitters. Those wavelengths are for the primary
red/blue deals.

Instead of the dome form factor, it may very well be that the
flattop/cylindrical is better, because it appears to have a much wider
angle. The angle is 30 degrees on the 513-LRC, 1.6/1.8 and the spec
sheet says 20mA

surplusled.com has some PCB's "coming soon", a lot of 1000 ultra red
diffused for 20 mA but they say 160mcd typ at 1.7/2.6V, $39.99/1000,
but that is a wide area

Getting some of those PCBs would really be a boon, because it would
solve a lot of problems in getting a nice line-up and so on,
particularly if there were nice cases that went with them. Maybe ask
the RV dealer guy.

Compact fluorescent

ballast
Triad C2642UNVME
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page...C2642UNVME000K
$31.50, runs 2 24w CF
3 Phillips 3100K bulbs @ ~$9, 3 actinic/cold combos @~15
6 endcaps @ ~2.50 2G11, or G24q-3 and 26w bulbs?
clips, holders
approx. $150 - $175

Rooter's mycorrhizae, about $10 a pound

CPU fan, about two dollars to get a dynatron brushless ball bearing
fan, maybe some heatsinks for the roof? Then the fan blows over the
roof and slightly into the chamber also, when the roof is up. So, the
very quietest fan is what to get.

"I am so booored. What plaything can you offer me today?
"An obscure body in the S-K system, your majesty.
Its inhabitants refer to it as the planet Eeeaarth."
"How peaceful it looks."


Should be able to find some polycarbonate lenses in little surface
mounts. Maybe even glass lenses. The point is to find a diffuser of
sorts that passes all the wavelengths of the LEDs. So, UV blocking is
not so important. A source notes polycarbonate might pass 88% UV-A,
57% UV-B. Glass might be better. Look to trailer surface mount type
things.

Looking for circuit boards for LED clusters and shallow plastic
enclosure with clear polycarbonate or glass lenses. Basically the idea
is to get those mini tackle boxes, minimini, with the folding
poycarbonate or other clear plastic lid, and then they are deep enough,
shallow enough, and small and large enough. Also they should be cheap
enough. Then it is a relatively simple matter to get some circuit
board material even without a printed circuit board, and then drill
those and assemble them. Transparent, polycarbonate enclosures,
http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwg2c.htm
http://www.hammondmfg.com/1554FCLP.htm

http://www.misterplexi.com/hingedbox.html !!
www.alpharho.com,
http://wardsci.com/product.asp_Q_pn_...+Plastic+Boxes

Need to make the boards first, with some notion of their eventual
enclosure, but not so much.

Carotenoids: 460 to 550?

****in A', definitely need wide spectrum first, 24w high frequency with
the 2G11 and warm/cold blend, and then some royal blue luxeons and
430s, and get to it. Start with those first, but also those cheap
660s. Some 730s will be key for their phtotomorphogenic keys.

pulsing idea: half wave one side to LEDs, but have the other side to
caps that double into the LEDs. That is to say, run full wave to not
bore into a rectifier diode, and then just have a gate circuit that
when it goes back to the LEDs, then it is doubled off of the
capacitors, or run another bank off of those capacitors through an SCR.
The idea is to work photosystem one and two, for better coupling.

Then, I would like the arrays to be close to wall voltage, in having x
number of LEDs in an array, but as well they have pretty tight bounds
on what they do. ...

Emerson effect: need 670's and 700's.

http://www.bamart.com/Store.asp?m=IL...=D+I+Y+Pa rts

PC CF bulbs, clips, sockets

Well this photosystem I/II discussion is leading to different
assumptions about the wavelength. I should be looking for 700/690 and
780/770 instead of 660 and 640. Hmm.... Chlorophyll a and b have
those peaks as above, but photosystem I and II peak at 700 and 680, and
having both contributes to Emerson effect.

It the LEDs are 30 degree, and the angles in the corners are 120
degree, then consider having the LEDS in the corners with pointing
around. Just make two 60 degree bars, the idea is to design these
things useful and then sell kits.

About the 700nm LEDs, it seems their delta-lambda, or +-3db wavelength
range, is some 50nm or something high in these ledOPTO L513-H, which
would be off in the far-red range? Well, maybe not that far, only as
much as is in the 665. So, they woud be OK, maybe, for hitting p.s. I
and II, then 735's for photomorphogenesis specifically would be a
different module. The spectrum of 660's is pretty high, so some 680's
should be good instead of the 700's, but they are even more difficult
to find.

Luxeon reds peak at 640? Oh, great. Then Luxeon Reds and Royal Blues
work almost perfect for Chlorophyll b. They should go into a radiated
wattage ratio that matches the absorption peaks ratio? The absorption
peaks look about the same width....

Then, cheap 660's, and then there is the need for the 430's, for the
Chlorophyll a.

Then, 680's and 700's for Photosystems II and I,

730's and, ..., 880's? for far-red.

Then, orange, yellow, and greens, and some ultraviolets... consider
blue-green reversibility.

The actinics say something about 420-430.

action/response spectra for Green Light induced responses show a peak
between 540 and 550nm.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=15247396

So, if GL increases stem elongation, use GL after topping to encourage
the offshoots to increase while the top regenerates? ... "actuate the
Rapid Growth Response". "The consistent decline in growth rate is
presumably due to activation of additional photosensory systems that
inhibit growth." Hmm... Check out Bunsen-Roscoe reciprocity and
first-order photchemistry. phototropin excitations, under blue light,
inhibit growth. ??? Well, they were using 524 and 535...

The fluoros would be putting out some of that light, it's not a
monochromatic environment. Thus, green light effects would seem to be
made by the fluorescents, in further consideration of blue/green
reversibility. A blue and green bank might be used for stomatal
influence in the otherwise dark period. Stomata are on underside of
leaf.

  #4   Report Post  
Old 16-02-2006, 12:20 PM posted to rec.gardens
Ross A. Finlayson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grow-Tron, For Sale!


Phycoerythrin - strong absorption peak around 560nm. Phycobilins: not
in higher plants. Phycoerythrin's a phycobilin, and not found in
higher plants.

Iron, Manganese, Copper, Magnesium
Phosphorus, Potassium, Nitrogen

Carbon Dioxide
Water

Really considering the bubbling for the roots, to let soak, but that is
complex, and involves moving parts and so on, and still need to drain
that. Then again, the laser reflector/detector and motorized trusses
on the canopy with variable LED/canopy spacing is also having a variety
of moving parts.

It seems some of the enzymes are key, the idea is kind of a concurrency
situation. The photosystem II is releasing the oxygen, hrm...

"chlorophyll b efficiently absorbs light in 450 to 500nm"?

"The 26-kd subunit of light-harvesting complex II (LHC-II) is the most
abundant membrane protein in chloroplasts. This subunit binds seven
chlorophyll a molecules, six chlorophyll b molecules, and two
carotenoid molecules."

chl a 7
chl b 6
carotenoid 2

plastoquinone, plastocyanin, plastoquinone: a highly lipid soluble
electron carrier

The idea with the concurrency is to avoid backlogs, and to get the
right light wavelengths and concentrations so that the reaction centers
operate in greatest efficiency and harmony. The idea is to get the
Calvin cycle really running, dark or light-independent reactions.
Maybe then with the pulsing, the idea would be to find the right duty
cycle of pulsing for the various photosystems I and II, so that they
are activated and so on, and then to pump them.

Photosystem II --via-- plastoquinone -- electron to cytochrome b_6/f
complex
photosystem I --via-- plastocyanin -gets- electron from cytochrome
b_6/f --with-- ferrodoxin -- reduces NADP+ to NADPH.

noncyclic photophosphorylation

Then, Calvin cycle.

So, definitely focus on the chlorophyll a inputs. That is around 667
and 435. So, what, well, hmm... That means just drive the red leds and
run the actinics, but I'm worried a little bit about UV radiation and
promoting the carotenoids to help protect against UV damage.

Chlorophyll b.

Chl b is an accessory found in peripheral light-harvesting complexes,
LHC's. These complexes usually contain three xanthophyll, two luteins,
and one neoxanthin, and nearly equal amounts of chl a and chl b, 7/5 or
8/6 for the major LHC-II, with na a/b ratio of 1.4, bound to proteins
(LHCP's) that are encoded in the nuclear genome and imported into the
plastid after synthesis in the cytosol.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2229/1/2

So, it seems chl b has more to do with chloroplast assembly than
photosynthesis. So, it is still in much smaller quantities than chl a.

Now, emitting directly at 680 and 700 might be not worth it, even
though P680 and P700 absorb at those, because, the antennae will be
plenty busy feeding them.

Hydroponics

media

airstone vs. ebb/flow

basically the media is going to be soil type thing, in a seedling tray.
Then, those are transplanted into perlite or vermiculite or so, with
gravel. Then, daily, with the turn on of the lights, water with some
nutrients floods the pots, and then is allowed to quite drain.

pump circuit: have when power is sent that it latches and runs for
some time, then resets when the power is off.

275nm UV-B?

660nm LEDs

make a bunch of little pucks or panels with them. It's nice to
consider an enclosure, for example the plastic friction-fit boxes with
a hole drilled for the lead out and then sealed tight. There are heat
dissipation problems with that. One notion is to use thermal
conductive, not electrically conductive paste over the board under the
LEDs and around a heat sink plug that goes through the box. Then that
is sealed, basically with the idea of keeping mositure off of the box
and making them easy to clean, and the metal post that supports the
board is then outside the box as a heat sink. Something like a largish
rivet. So anyways then a 660nm panel needs a constant current driver,
to begin, towards later using pumping pulsing laser diode type inputs
or the rotating wheel type that distributes a pulse among the panels
lessening each's duty cycle but washing around back-EMF.

In that way as much as possible the efficiency and protective circuitry
would be off-loaded to the power supply. So, the panel would have a
square array of LEDs, series in parallel. Each series should have a
small resistor just to ballast a small bit. The maxim current
regulators are only around a dollar.

That involves getting a bunch of perfboard. Damn, that stuff's
expensive, need to find a radio shop.

Then, there are design questions about the voltage of the power supply.
Basically, around 12v would be good, but maybe 24 would be better. It
would be nice to find a high-efficiency power supply, instead of
bridge-waving with a filter network and then current regulator. To
maintain the current is one thing, then another. Another notion is to
have little current regulator for each panel, which is important
instead of having a monolithic power supply, because then, say, the
rectifier can be off a high frequency with a high frequency power
rectifier. In that way, the efficiency of the rectifier is increased,
as inductive coupling is better. What is that, with capacitors or
something? Jeez.

The idea then is to have the panel drivers go in parallel off of the
power supply, which provides, say, regulated voltage DC, er, damn.
What is a "switched mode power supply."

12VDC PFC universal, PFC is "power factor correction"

Wha... how many amps go through? Ohm's. The LED's are conductors.
They have forward bias. They dissipate. Damn. Probably a good idea
to look at the first lines of the spec sheet for the important
information as electrical components.

Ooh... this MAX5033/MAX5035 looks really cool, with current regulation
to .5 and 1.0A at various output voltages, including various output
voltages... and stock inductors, running off a variety of input
voltages... and valued! Hmm... 500mA / 20mA = 25 20mA LEDs... Those
seem great. If they run at 12 V, and then the LED has a typical 1.8
voltage, then, erm..., Ohm's law? What is voltage drop there? Does it
just go by P_d power dissipated? Power dissipated is 60mW, 12V x 1A =
12VA = 12000 mW? Divided by 60 is 200? That doesn't seem right
either. Running at 3V x 1A, 3000mW? Divided by 60 is 50? Maybe that's
better, but then there's only 3 volts? Damn that requires some more
learning.

Again the idea is to have color coded jack plugs that interconnect the
dumb LED panel with the power supply and controller, err... so then the
controller modules plug into the main power supply and then they each
run a line to an individual panel... unless the panels could be
connected in various ways and run into a hub of sorts, ie series in
parallel, ..., for various placement of the panels or nodes, with screw
attachments, double-sided tape, and so forth, in UL approved packages
for sale to the public.

  #5   Report Post  
Old 18-02-2006, 08:32 PM posted to rec.gardens
Ross A. Finlayson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grow-Tron, For Sale!

Then, with the controller logic removed, there are questions about
pulsed supplies and so on, but moreso initially about component values
in the panels and nodes, where a node is basically a single large
high-output LED in a case of some form with perhaps a resistor to
ballast it to the node lines, or something.

"DO NOT PLUG THE GROW-TRON POWER SUPPLY JACK PLUGS INTO THE MEDIA CARD
PORTS OF A DEVICE OR ANYWHERE ELSE EXCEPT AS DESIGNATED. INSERT
GROW-TRON POWER SUPPLY JACK PLUGS ONLY INTO COMPATIBLE JACKS ON
GROW-TRON PRODUCTS. GROW-TRON POWER SUPPLY PLUGS CONTAIN DANGEROUS
VOLTAGES AND AMPERAGES. WARNING: CLASS 1 LASER DEVICE, DO NOT STARE
INTO LED EMITTERS. USE EYE PROTECTION AROUND LED EMITTERS. WARNING:
FLUORESCENT BULBS EMIT ULTRAVIOLET RADIATION. USE EYE AND SKIN
PROTECTION AROUND FLUORESCENT BULBS. INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION NOT
INCLUDED. WATER IS TOXIC IN LARGE QUANTITIES. MADE in USA. ALL
COMPONENTS MADE in USA, except some nice pieces from JAPAN."

So, that levity aside as I'm still an idiot about the LEDs, hmm... Try
and keep the ballast with the power supply for centralized, or
concentrated, cooling.

With the form factor of the power modules, they should basically stack,
to form a compact block. Then, there's the problem of wires coming out
of them. It might be possible to consider having a hub of some sorts,
with having precut and identified jacks or simply fitted connecting
plugs, and then they multiplex of a sort to some hub with thick wire,
and they then go to a distributor, to reduce the number of wires
running from the grow chamber to the power supply cabinet or rackmount.
That's all complicated. I'm still over at cavemen poke with stick.

While that may be so, it's good to consider how this could work very
well, and even having synchronizing control circuitry among the power
bricks so the controller can pulse them all how it wants, even a bus
and the SDK.

With these MAX5035, with the 24Vin and 12V out at 0.5A it say 94%
efficiency. That's good. They can drive the LED panels. A problem:
they're only a buck or two, but that's in 1000 lot quantities. Then
other parts of the high-efficiency LED driver as well cost money.

For powering the pump, consider a 555, that when it receives power goes
to on, and then after the time period shuts it off. That might be
usable with a potentiometer of sorts.

The idea is to have a simple, self-contained timer circuit. It seems I
can get some relays that will allow driving a power strip off a simple
timer, and then have the circuit for the pump only run for a brief
amount of time, compared to the 20/4 and 12/12 lights on.

Basically it is going to be the CF's first and then as it is
constructed the LED array(s). One 120VAC plug for the 3 CF ballasts,
and hopefully one 120VAC plug for the LED driver, and one 120VAC plug
for the pump timer relay. Then there are the fans, they might be on a
different type circuit. I want damn quiet fans that don't move much
air, damnit. Then for cooling they can blow over wicks for evaporative
cooling.

Then, hmm..., there is temperature to control. Hmm... one notion is
the waterbath to the aquarium heater, ... for heating, and then fan
over wick for cooling.

So, the CFLs, should I get warm spectrum or not? Hmm... Well, why
not. I want to to have symmetry of sorts. Hmm... another question
is: 50/50's or Actinic 03's?

In terms of cost, well this is quite a bit, but then again it's very
high-tech and also should be low-maintenance on the plant, with a long
lifetime, and it will be interesting to build the design. The parts
list is as above. As well, it will just be an experimental chamber for
a long time. Hmm... Basically the lights and reflection for chamber
preparation are to begin, with a rack and so on and so forth. Hmm...
again the adjustable shelves thing is good.

If the rack is raised and lowered, then the reservoir sits on the
bottom at some point, then the pump would need a couple feet of head.
Again the fill and drain is unclear, but just having a smaller diameter
drain should be OK, then I want the pump to stop if the reservoir is
empty, to maintain prime and not waste electricity.

So, preparation would involve a wash-down of the tank, maybe vinegar or
something stronger to really clear it out, all-natural and so on, and
nothing that would mess up the seals. Hmm... then get the reflective
coating and make a shower pan fo the bottom and some black plastic
underneath it, the lights should already be there and then test the
mylar for emissions through and so forth. Also test out the lights for
heating and so on. Then the mylar or other reflective coating is set
up, inside the thing. I don't want to spraypaint or permanently coat
the glass, it's a fishtank. Also, I don't want humidity in the
plastic. Hmm... dessicant? Nah. How to fasten the plastic? Glue
bits? That might work pretty good. I could find some water-soluble
glue, ie Elmer's, the plastic is light and so forth and not subject to
much strain, and they should tear out leaving removable pieces for
cleaning them up.

That should be easy to set up, i.e., without designing circuits and so
on and so forth. That's just some mechanicals. Try and keep the
mechanicals/structurals neat, simple, clean. Materials are under
consideration in terms of use, price, availability, primarily
availability and price, machinability, yet something along the lines of
generic metal shelf raiils might work very well for most purposes. ..

The roofdecks and various shelving and so on, ....

Well, maybe in a couple months I'll get into this. For now, that is
all. Well, it's interesting.

Driving the cooling and ventilation fans with variable speed seems to
be the same problem as the constant current for the LEDs, in that when
the fan's DC motor is started it initially has no resistant, so it
starts hard. Then, to current control the fan would be a good thing.
Again, efficiency is a major goal. Having a constant current fan
controller off of the same regulated voltage that the other constant
current devices are receiving would be a good thing, as the fan would
be operating in a similar range. As well, designing the constant
current with the constant voltage type things with the dimmer leads to
the notion of pulsing control, and sharing the pulsing around all the
various panel and node drivers that are running at the same frequency,
and that each would have their own little hardware component to save
implementing thatmonolithically within the power voltage regular, from
basically wall current, but conceivably from 12V or 24V power, but
basically universally as the point is that there will be a voltage
regulated 24V supply of some kind for as many amps as all the module
circuits would draw and so on and so forth, towards keeping it under
hundreds of watts definitely, and preferably with no output modules on
approaching a very high power factor. The constant current circuits
seem to be drawing some few percent of the amperage they regulate.

So, the LED panel controller. The idea of getting an LED die and
diffusing it, because there are positive temperatore control notions,
is a good one. Boy the miracle technology.

The optically regulated LED, the frequency goes into a photodetector on
the same die for analog regulation discs. That's optically small form
factor optical junctions to discs, and discretized analog data into the
pixels, simple as digitizing. The wires, they have separate optical
fibers for the feedback over the device. Why optical? No electronic
interference. What have the LED and photodiode on the same IC, in
channels on top of each other. The frequency of the wavelength changes
with the current. Feed the current right back into the photodiode.
Then, it's a light wavelength. Band gap.

Then, the high precision diode device can have a feedback based on the
light curve, i.e, 3-D chromaticity? Also it is about polar signals.
The connector isn't two wires, it's polished and high precision, they
stick together, for as far as I care they can be magnets. That's the
device, the mirrors and distributed over the surface. The bandgap,
though, it would seem to be in-crystalline, glueing the ICs together
with clear plastics.

The plastics, they are insulators, here they are not dielectric, it's a
plastic hybrid semiconductor.

Photonic band gap Wave Guides on a chip. Light, bouncing off of
something, in reflection. Why? want I want is a high frequency timing
source. The diode, i actually converts an electrical signal to light,
of a wide freqeucny I guess. It bends, around the mathematical field,
it reflects it's light, it reflects off mass, it must do something
about electromagnetic radiation in light emitting diodes.

The crystal, it seems to be less thermally conductive that the
amorphous material. Yet, what about metallic ceramic? Well that is
semiconductor itself. The idea for a robust power laser diode is to
use very gross methods. For example, analysis of obsidian, mica,
similar crystals/amorphous materials, eg the buckyball, graphite and
carbon diamond.

Doped graphite.

Building in the thermocouples to the integrated circuit. It's a layer,
it 's generally hoped to be insulator, electrically, but not thermally?
Wait, whuh? Oh, they go out to thermo-pins in the DIP socket, with
different materials for the heat pipes. Yeah, heat pipes. A problem
might be the heat ones obviously radiate, but the cold ones gets
electrical deal there. The hot ones get more resistance, and the cold
ones less. Wait, vice versa.

uk.rec.gardening
rec.gardens

Plug it in! Plug it in!

Grow SILICON. An open book test: carbon, silicon, ___.

That represents about five days of research.

Ross



  #6   Report Post  
Old 29-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
Default

I have been lurking in your forum for days now and I have to register just to reply to this thread.. lol. A very long read but pretty comprehensible. Thank you for this useful thread
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Orchid Supplies / Grow Light / Orchid Flasking Supplies (Medfield MA) [email protected] Orchids 0 13-04-2005 03:51 PM
Shade grow vs. Sun Grow Areca Palms Jason Gardening 2 23-04-2004 05:05 AM
easy grow cactus 4 sale cheap Lazan Kalani Roses 0 14-04-2004 06:33 PM
Orchids For Sale- Plants, Compots, Flasks, Supplies, Flasking Stuff, Grow Light Ken Koellner Orchids 2 30-09-2003 11:42 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017