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No dig gardens
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. My definition of no dig involves: minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or harvest root vegetables leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the soil or self seed using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach in to the soil using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following leafy plants with root crops etc Thanks in advance for your contribution rob |
No dig gardens
"simy1" wrote in message oups.com... In regard to leaving spent plants in place, it works if the rotation is strict. You leave tomatoes in a patch because you know there will be no tomatoes there next year. can you explain a little more this concept please? rob |
No dig gardens
"George.com" wrote in message ... Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. My definition of no dig involves: minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or harvest root vegetables leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the soil or self seed using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach in to the soil using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following leafy plants with root crops etc Thanks in advance for your contribution rob perhaps a point of clarification needed here, my original explaination may not have been specific enough. It is not the proces of constructing a no dig garden I am wondering about, through thanks to those who have made usueful suggestions in that area. It is actually in the process of gardening, propogating, rearing plants using a no dig approach, no tillage of the soil, low input, low labour, 'do nothing' process. What got be interested initially was this guys thoughts Masanobu Fukuoka http://larryhaftl.com/ffo/fover.html It sounded like a really good lazy way (and sustainable) of growing veges n herbs. I have only started experimenting. The way my dad and grandad used to do vege gardens of digging in compost and manure every year, digging over weeds, spending hours preparing beds seemed labour intensive. They seemed to need to constantly put back nutrients into the soil as the process of rearing veges stripped the nutrients out. Moreover the more I read the more is suggested that constantly tilling the soil to nay significant depth actually damages the soil structure and its potency. Fukuoka says that leaving the nutrients where they are greatly reduces this robbing of the soils vitality and nature and worms will dig organic matter in to the soil for you. That sounds good in theory, I hope someone has matched it in reality and can report on that. rob |
No dig gardens
"George.com" wrote in message ... Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. My definition of no dig involves: minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or harvest root vegetables leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the soil or self seed using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach in to the soil using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following leafy plants with root crops etc Thanks in advance for your contribution rob Interesting concept !! Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~) Seems to be a big thing in Australia, in fact there are courses a stones throws away from you: http://www.waverley.nsw.gov.au/counc...odiggarden.asp More info and how to: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/pu...rth/garden.htm Even the RHS has info on it: http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/p..._garden_0299_d ig.asp and of course Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_dig_gardening Do keep us posted on your efforts. Pictures would be good ......... Jenny |
No dig gardens
JennyC wrote: Interesting concept !! Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~) Really?! Where have you been?! ;o) This is my second year - kept all the legumes (broad beans, peas, beans) bed as it is but clean up a bit by just taking out the wires, mesh and poles. Kept all the plants there and they have all decomposed on top, giving the top surface a smooth dark tilth, which I just raked lightly, for my cucurbitas this year. The potatoes this year will be covered with straw and grass and on the new plot (given to me recently by the committee ouuerr...) I'll use one bed for spuds using the traditional method to see which one is best. Where the potatoes where last year I have just kept as it is, won't touch anything beside raking a bit to level. My legumes will go in there. My neighbour has started this process 3 years ago - she uses chicken pooh and tonnes of grass clipings. Her veg patch received an award last week end for the previous summer. Our tribe got praised for the creation of Edward Twigorhands, a very elaborate (and realistic) scarecrow and an award for my wild flower patch blush |
No dig gardens
The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a visit and she became a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad back already. \ Ingrid ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website. I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site. |
No dig gardens
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No dig gardens
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No dig gardens
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No dig gardens
oh yeah. mom didnt meet him tho. my stepfather knew him tho. Ingrid
"Mike Lyle" wrote: wrote: The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a visit and she became a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad back already. \ Ingrid Rex Stout, as in Nero Wolfe? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website. I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site. |
No dig gardens
sure, in fact it is the only form of gardening I practice. details
below. George.com wrote: Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. My definition of no dig involves: minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or harvest root vegetables You have to rake clean those parts of the garden where you expect to broadcast seeds directly. leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the soil or self seed I allow mache, arugula, and miner lettuce (plus purslane, a weed) to self-seed. They are cold weather small greens that can grow uncospicuously when nothing else grows, or in the shade of bigger plants. using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach in to the soil of course. I even try to plan two years ahead. If I know there will be big plants for two years in a bed, I tend to use wood chips, which will decompose slowly. If I want the bed clean next year, I use leaves that disappear in a year using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil no. I have plenty of the real manure. crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following leafy plants with root crops etc yes, but typically only two years rotation. Thanks in advance for your contribution rob |
No dig gardens
In regard to leaving spent plants in place, it works if the rotation is
strict. You leave tomatoes in a patch because you know there will be no tomatoes there next year. Not removing the plants certainly saves you a few hours work in the Fall. |
No dig gardens
"George.com" wrote in message
... Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. My definition of no dig involves: minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or harvest root vegetables leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the soil or self seed using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach in to the soil using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following leafy plants with root crops etc Thanks in advance for your contribution My experience (in Australia) is that the beds tend to dry out in the searing heat of midsummer and they are then a real devil to moisten again. They work reasonably well if you can keep them moist. My advice would be to use lucerne (aka alfalfa) in slabs as the base, and to put in pockets of potting mix or good compost where you want to plant seeds/seedlings. Prepare the bales of lucerne by leaving them to sit in the garden for a while and "mature". By that I mean to start rotting down. I put them direct on the soil and let them get wet as I turn on the sprinkler then turn them every month or when I remember so that a new surface is then presented to the soil. If you can do this where the no-dig bed is to go then you will start to notice the build up of worms (and the worms will aslo start to colonise the rotting base of the bale) and you'll notice an increased richness of the soil where the bale has been sitting. This makes it a bit easier to get the bed going. Also I never use newspaper on the bottom. I've found it doesn't work for me and stops the microgoobies from starting to work in the bed. |
No dig gardens
George.com wrote: Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. I have used a variation on no dig gardening. The city i lived in had free compost from grass clippings and leaves. I brought home a few truckloads and just dumped them on the ground to create my planting bed with no further preparation. I had good success. |
No dig gardens
There are certain plants that catch diseases. I leave all greens and
all root crops and all bulbs in place, because they never catch anything, but tomatoes, cucurbita, beans and cabbage, if I know I am not going to rotate next year, I prefer to remove. Most of my tomatoes are healthy, but there is one particular heirloom that is hit or miss. And the cukes get the wilt. Otherwise it is efficient to harvest the vegetable, clean it on the spot, and drop the remains on the ground. It saves you a trip to the compost pile, and trip back. Other things I have learned: absolutely mulch at the very last minute before planting, and preferrably after last frost. If you mulch in march, because you don't have much else to do, you will have cold soil in May. |
No dig gardens
well, if you get good quality veggies, they will take away a lot of
nutrients. No till eliminates tilling, weeding, and reduces fertilizing and watering, but you can not grow great chard with leaves compost only (though you can with manure). You do need either manure or some chemical fertilizer, at least with some veggies. Or you need to grow a lot of peas and beans. Also, no till eventually becomes very friendly to slugs. Now organic slug bait is available everywhere, so this is no longer a problem. |
No dig gardens
simy1 wrote: There are certain plants that catch diseases. I leave all greens and all root crops and all bulbs in place, because they never catch anything, but tomatoes, cucurbita, beans and cabbage, if I know I am not going to rotate next year, I prefer to remove. Most of my tomatoes are healthy, but there is one particular heirloom that is hit or miss. And the cukes get the wilt. Just curious, where do you write from simy1? |
No dig gardens
southeast michigan.
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No dig gardens
southeast michigan.
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No dig gardens
g'day rob,
yes i use them all the time very successful for me come vsit my web site and see how we do it: http://www.users.bigpond.com/gardenlen1/ len snipped |
No dig gardens
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks. |
No dig gardens
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote: Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks. I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of years. I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK. -- Mike. |
No dig gardens
Mike Lyle wrote:
Dave wrote: George.com wrote: Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks. I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of years. I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK. Oh, this thread is being cross-posted across three groups. I'm located in the midwest US. The Summer here can be quite hot and dry. In fact it was rather difficult to judge when the mulched plot needed water. UK weather is probably similar to the northwest US. Dave |
No dig gardens
Hi All,
I have grown butternut squash [ Butternut Sprinter ] with success in most years. Hope this helps you. Richard M. Watkin. "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: George.com wrote: Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures etc. I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks. I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of years. I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK. -- Mike. |
No dig gardens
R M. Watkin wrote:
Hi All, I have grown butternut squash [ Butternut Sprinter ] with success in most years. Hope this helps you. So what plants are thought to be optimal for a no-till plot? My hope was that the weeds would be kept under control for squash -- which are difficult to weed -- but as the season wore on the weeds got pretty thick. Some weeds seem to be effective mulch penetrators. Also I guess I didn't really employ "no-till" but till once in the Spring and then add another layer of mulch on top of that. With that is mind is there anything else should I till in, such as lime? I have a source of horse manure but figure that will be loaded with weed seeds. Thanks. |
No dig gardens
If you lay down a piece of cardboard, punch a central hole for the
squash plant, and then cover with mulch, brambles might make it through, but most weeds won't. When you ask about which plants are optimal for a no-till plot, I assume you mean "clay plot". A sandy plot will be OK with any plant. Plants that break the soil effectively include radicchio, fava, cardoon, mache, and potato. Anything with a taproot, though the latter two do not have one. Even carrot, parsnip, and beets, if you don't mind the misshapen roots too much. |
No dig gardens
simy1 wrote:
If you lay down a piece of cardboard, punch a central hole for the squash plant, and then cover with mulch, brambles might make it through, but most weeds won't. When you ask about which plants are optimal for a no-till plot, I assume you mean "clay plot". A sandy plot will be OK with any plant. Plants that break the soil effectively include radicchio, fava, cardoon, mache, and potato. Anything with a taproot, though the latter two do not have one. Even carrot, parsnip, and beets, if you don't mind the misshapen roots too much. Yes, I might try some sort of barrier this year. How about newspaper? I guess my question has more to do with the quality of the mulch soil. The several layers of mulch are still deteriorating so I presume this may favor plants which tolerate acidic low-nitrogen soils??? Thanks. |
No dig gardens
Newspapers are fine, but if you want to kill brambles and grass,
cardboard is better. But more important than cardboard vs newspapers, The secret to a good kill is to apply the mulch after growth has resumed. That way you push down the shoot, and you have a long time before the paper breaks down and lets perennials through. There are plants that like degrading mulch, most notably tomatoes, garlic, potatoes, squash. Degrading mulch tends to be acidic, but not all the time, and not necessarily low nitrogen unless you use very brown materials. Lettuce, for example, is sensitive to acidity, but it will be very happy if planted directly through six month old leaves mixed with some manure. In practice I always give wood ash to just about anything i grow except potatoes (I have acid soil, and I prefer wood chips, the most acid mulch of all, because I plant most everything in seedling form). Over time the pH of the degrading mulch climbs up to near neutral values as it becomes soil. It will start to look like soil. There are tricks that you can play. First, if you use leaves as mulch, they will be 99% gone by next year, with a decent pH, so you can seed directly in the resulting soil. If you use chunkier mulch, like wood chips, you will have weed protection for two years or more, but you will have to plant through the chips until they are gone. Wood chips start quite low in pH but when they are done their soil is similar to that made of other mulches, if possible with a stronger humus. If you use cardboard covered with leaves or mulch, the cardboard is 99% gone the next year. if your mulch is not quite done, and you want to seed directly there, gently rake it to one side of the bed. Use that side for potatoes or garlic, and the raked part for carrots and beets. The raked part will have more weed seeds than if you had not raked it, but still less than the soil underneath it. |
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