"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..


So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,

oh don't be so hard on yourself - I'm sure your brain is bigger than that

A few months ago, I was taking a train uptown to see my friend. The
train slowed down as it approached the first stop and stopped halfway
into the station. Another train was stationary on the down track short
of the end of the platform.

Eventually we pulled fully into the station and passengers were able to
embark/disembark. The train left the station, but soon after, it
stopped in a tunnel for 15 minutes. The current had been turned off,
the driver explained, because of an 'incident' at the previous station.

Later it transpired that the down train had had a 'jumper'. Well, a
sitter, in fact. He'd climbed down just before the train pulled in and
sat on the track far too late for the inevitable to be prevented. The
current on the down line had to be turned off for 4 hours while
tranport police looked for the sitter's head, which a fox had ran off
with.

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain
maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62


By the same reasoning, water molecules must be superbly intelligent
designers, since they arrange themselves into snowflakes.

Design, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Victor Faraday
) made the light shine upon us with this:


You sound like that video with Kirk Cameron and his sidekick explaining how
bananas were created to perfectly fit into a human hand. LOL. I can name
a few other things that were probably not created to fit into a human hand,
but nonetheless do.

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic


My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on atomic
levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst scientists.
They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get. Very
interesting stuff.

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet ZenIsWhen
) made the light shine upon us with this:

Obvioiusly this spider, "with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand" has one over on you!

They certainly have one over on my daughter. A tiny little spider can make
her scream her lungs out. I tried to explain, out of the many thousands of
species of spider, only two are poisonous and one of those cannot tolerate
the climate where we live. Didn't help.

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic


My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists. They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science
they get. Very interesting stuff.

The story about your dad may be true but it proves nothing about science.
It isn't even about science. The rest of what you wrote also isn't about
science and is at best an unsupported assertion not a "matter of fact".
Rob Brown

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

Lovely story

Now, where's the god?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ******* Extraordinaire
#1557

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.

--
Vic

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.

Yet another theist lying through his teeth about atheists. What is it
with you assholes?

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God.
Then he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he
has a PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way
that 'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things
on atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.

That's nice, deary.

Now, **** off, you pompous piece of shit.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ******* Extraordinaire
#1557

Victor Faraday wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

Oooooh... "far beyond." Over the rainbow, I presume.

(Sigh)

Hand-waving noted.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega.

Since when? This "Almighty alpha and omega" must then have an even
*more* "fantastic design" than that which he/she/it/they designed!

These atheist types are

Uh-oh, someone is picking up a clump of straw and giving it humanoid form...

trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.

And differing aesthetic sensibilities apply exactly how?

655321

Victor Faraday wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.

--
Vic


Then, who designed the designer?

--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.secularity.com/ktayloraz

A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20

Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
__________________________________________________ __________________

Posted to: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian, rec.gardens

singing One of these things is not like the others....

655321

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:36:54 -0700, Gregory Gadow wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:22:06 +0000, Rob Brown wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.

It works this way:

1. I saw a spider web.

2. Therefor, god.

/em smacks forehead

It's all so obvious now! How could I have missed the connection?!

Amazing ennit?

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com