I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

I am considering aerating, dethatching, and then overseeding. I am
confused about which of these tasks requires a power machine (and
hence rental) vs. the ability to do by hand.

If the marginal benefit is not too great, I would prefer not to have
to rent 3 separate machines.

- My understanding is that aeration requires a power machine to do it
right, so presumably I need to rent an aerator.

- Do I need a dethatcher or could I do just as good a job with a special
dethatching rake?

- Do I need an overseeder machine or can I do almost as good a job with a
standard Scott's broadcast spreader?

- If I rent an overseeder, do I still need an aerator or will the
overseeder do a reasonably good job of opening up the soil?

- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks

blueman wrote:
I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

I am considering aerating, dethatching, and then overseeding. I am
confused about which of these tasks requires a power machine (and
hence rental) vs. the ability to do by hand.

If the marginal benefit is not too great, I would prefer not to have
to rent 3 separate machines.

- My understanding is that aeration requires a power machine to do it
right, so presumably I need to rent an aerator.

- Do I need a dethatcher or could I do just as good a job with a special
dethatching rake?

- Do I need an overseeder machine or can I do almost as good a job with a
standard Scott's broadcast spreader?

- If I rent an overseeder, do I still need an aerator or will the
overseeder do a reasonably good job of opening up the soil?

- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks


You can get a special blade for your power mower which will do a
passable job on dethatching. Follow thwt up wih the manual dethatching
rake.

Dethatch first.

Then rent an aereater machine.

Then over seed.

Starter fertilizer.

Water.

Maybe straw as top cover / mulch.

Pray for rain.

blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

I am considering aerating, dethatching, and then overseeding. I am
confused about which of these tasks requires a power machine (and
hence rental) vs. the ability to do by hand.

If the marginal benefit is not too great, I would prefer not to have
to rent 3 separate machines.

- My understanding is that aeration requires a power machine to do it
right, so presumably I need to rent an aerator.

- Do I need a dethatcher or could I do just as good a job with a special
dethatching rake?

- Do I need an overseeder machine or can I do almost as good a job with a
standard Scott's broadcast spreader?

- If I rent an overseeder, do I still need an aerator or will the
overseeder do a reasonably good job of opening up the soil?

- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks


And you don't want to lime unless and until you've had a couple of soil
samples tested for pH.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.


- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks


Nope. You left out "soil test".

blueman wrote:
I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

....


- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks


No you missed the first step.

Find out what the problem is. You are trying to fix half a dozen
different problems none of which may be the one causing the problem.

I have seen many people who like to use all of your operations, but get
little results because the problem may be the way they mow the grass. The
most common lawn problem where I live is mowing too short. Everyone seems
to think that because putting greens are mowed short, that is the answer to
a good looking lawn..... Not.

I suggest getting the soil tested as a good start. You local county
extension office should be able to help you with this and likely many great
suggestions for your area. What works in my area might kill the grass in
yours.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

You can do all of the things that you suggested, or any combination of
them, but I don't think you're ever going to be happy with the result.
Once you go down the "overcaring for the lawn" road there is no end to
it.

Let me tell you what I do for my lawn, and it looks great. I do
basically nothing. I mow at the second from the highest setting with
my mulching mower, and I let the clippings lie where they fall. I do
not provide any supplemental water. This makes the roots go deep, and
the lawn "learns" to fend for itself. (A weak lawn with shallow roots
that is used to being fed from above might look even worse for a while
until it figured out what to do.)

And that's it. Healthy grass has deep roots and is tall enough to
shade the lower parts of its blades from harsh sun. The clippings that
fall decompose and provide nutrients. Grass doesn't need anything else
to survive, honest.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

I am considering aerating, dethatching, and then overseeding. I am
confused about which of these tasks requires a power machine (and
hence rental) vs. the ability to do by hand.

If you have thatch, you are watering incorrectly. What are your
watering practices?

If the marginal benefit is not too great, I would prefer not to have
to rent 3 separate machines.

It is often less expensive to have someone come in and do that for
you. Still, what makes you think you have thatch? What does it look
like, what sort of grass?

- My understanding is that aeration requires a power machine to do it
right, so presumably I need to rent an aerator.

Again, it is about the same price to pay someone to do this for you
and you should make sure they use a core aerator, not just prongs.
This will leave little turd shaped things on the lawn which will wash
down with the next good rain..

- Do I need a dethatcher or could I do just as good a job with a special
dethatching rake?

You will be dead if you use a dethatching rake! Your lawn is
enormous, unless you don't actually know how large 5,000 square feet
is.

- Do I need an overseeder machine or can I do almost as good a job with a
standard Scott's broadcast spreader?

Where do you live, what kind of seed?

- If I rent an overseeder, do I still need an aerator or will the
overseeder do a reasonably good job of opening up the soil?

You do not nee an overseeder. Of course a broadcast spreader is only
about 20 dollars and you can use it to get seed down relatively evenly
and it's also good for fertilizing.

- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

snip

huh? 5000sq ft is .114 acres. One acres is 43,560 square feet. Thats not
a huge area in my world. maybe in Manhattan or some place.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:
I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this

First, cut some sod samples to see what's going on with the soil, in both a
green and a brown patch. Water first with a sprinkler for 15 minutes before
trying to cut the sample, and then wait 15 minutes before cutting. Can you get
a spade in easily? If so, it probably doesn't need aeration, unless you've
got traffic lanes (a dog patrolling your fencelines, a mailcarrier wearing a
path, etc.). Is there a difference between the two samples in how far the water
penetrated into the soil? Is there a lot of dead stuff (like more than 1/2 inch)
just above the soil in brown areas making a layer that water doesn't penetrate?
If not, you don't have thatch (and chances are, you don't have thatch anyhow --
unless you've been feeding the lawn quite heavily.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...re/DG1123.html

Were the brown areas quite green in cooler temps, and the areas that weren't so
green are now green? If so, that suggests you've got a mixture of warm season
(Zoysia, buffalo grass, crabgrass, etc.) and cool season (bluegrass, fescues)
in your lawn, and they're reacting quite predictably to summer temps.

If you get back to us with the results of that spade test, we can suggest
some better ways of going on.

Personally, I'd start with a soil test, especially if you've not been liming and
fertilizing regularly. That's no matter what the spade test shows. I'd also
pull a sample for a shake test, to determine particle size composition of the
soil.

My gut feeling is you've probably got a mixture of warm and cool season grasses;
if the warm season grass is crabgrass (it'd be green now in hot weather), it's
an annual and can be "cured" with proper fertilization, mowing and overseeding.
Might want to poke around on the web and match pictures of blooming/seeding
grasses in your lawn to some of the common lawn weeds.

Assuming you've got crabgrass, I'd suggest running through the areas with a
tiller, scattering (by hand)
in good fresh lawn seed of desirable species, firming up the soil, and
then watering this fall. Apply lime and a good "starter fertilizer" without
pesticide this fall; lime and a spring fertilizer next year. And get the mower
blade sharpened... one of the biggest causes of ratty looking lawns.

Kay

"blueman" wrote in message
...
I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

When was the last time you fertilized? Watered? Where are you?

Bob

On 29 Aug 2006 23:27:14 +0200, No wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

snip

huh? 5000sq ft is .114 acres. One acres is 43,560 square feet. Thats not
a huge area in my world. maybe in Manhattan or some place.

Well, my house is 2500 square feet and there are four large bedrooms,
a huge livingroom, giant kitchen and two full baths with walk in
closets in every room. So, double that and you have the equivalent of
a house with eight bedrooms, two livingrooms, two giant kitchens, four
full bathrooms and many huge closets. That's a lot of turf to manage
for a homeowner.

In article , Jangchub wrote:
On 29 Aug 2006 23:27:14 +0200, No wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

snip

huh? 5000sq ft is .114 acres. One acres is 43,560 square feet. Thats not
a huge area in my world. maybe in Manhattan or some place.

Well, my house is 2500 square feet and there are four large bedrooms,
a huge livingroom, giant kitchen and two full baths with walk in
closets in every room. So, double that and you have the equivalent of
a house with eight bedrooms, two livingrooms, two giant kitchens, four
full bathrooms and many huge closets. That's a lot of turf to manage
for a homeowner.

Nonsense.

My first house sat on a 60'x135' lot. That's 8100 square feet. Subtract
10'x70' for the driveway, 24'x35' for the house, and 12'x20' for the garage.
That leaves 6320 square feet. I mowed the whole thing with a walk-behind power
mower in about forty minutes.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:24:02 GMT, Jangchub wrote:

On 29 Aug 2006 23:27:14 +0200, No wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

snip

huh? 5000sq ft is .114 acres. One acres is 43,560 square feet. Thats not
a huge area in my world. maybe in Manhattan or some place.

Well, my house is 2500 square feet and there are four large bedrooms,
a huge livingroom, giant kitchen and two full baths with walk in
closets in every room. So, double that and you have the equivalent of
a house with eight bedrooms, two livingrooms, two giant kitchens, four
full bathrooms and many huge closets. That's a lot of turf to manage
for a homeowner.

At this point, I'm thinking about the electric bill. Cooling 5000
square feet could cost a lot.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

blueman wrote in
:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

I know I need to do something to condition the soil and re-seed this
fall.

I am considering aerating, dethatching, and then overseeding. I am
confused about which of these tasks requires a power machine (and
hence rental) vs. the ability to do by hand.

If the marginal benefit is not too great, I would prefer not to have
to rent 3 separate machines.

- My understanding is that aeration requires a power machine to do it
right, so presumably I need to rent an aerator.

- Do I need a dethatcher or could I do just as good a job with a
special
dethatching rake?

- Do I need an overseeder machine or can I do almost as good a job
with a
standard Scott's broadcast spreader?

- If I rent an overseeder, do I still need an aerator or will the
overseeder do a reasonably good job of opening up the soil?

- Finally, is this the right order of operations:
Aerate
Dethatch
Fertilize/lime
Seed/overseed
Water
Water
Water...

Thanks


Have you considered the possibility of disease or bugs?

Brown areas can be caused by this. For instance, grubs will chow on the
roots and create brown spots. You can usually grab the brown turf and
pull up a patch because they have destroyed the roots. Or if you go cut
down at the edge of the brown and pull up the edge you will actually see
the grubs. A prime indicator of grubs is skunks that dig in your yard.
People want to shoot the skunks not realizing they are doing them a
favor by digging a relatively small hole to eat their delicasy food,
grubs.

Disease is another story. Gotta ID it.

Bottom line whether it's bad mowing or someone spraying Triox on your
lawn at night, you gotta ID the root cause and not just throw stuff at
it like a jackpot.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:04:21 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Jangchub wrote:
On 29 Aug 2006 23:27:14 +0200, No wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:28 GMT, blueman wrote:

I have a relatively small lawn (maybe 5 thousand square feet spread
across a couple of patches) that has developed seemingly more brown
than green spots, including a bit of a mat of dead grass.

That is a monumental amount of turf.

snip

huh? 5000sq ft is .114 acres. One acres is 43,560 square feet. Thats not
a huge area in my world. maybe in Manhattan or some place.

Well, my house is 2500 square feet and there are four large bedrooms,
a huge livingroom, giant kitchen and two full baths with walk in
closets in every room. So, double that and you have the equivalent of
a house with eight bedrooms, two livingrooms, two giant kitchens, four
full bathrooms and many huge closets. That's a lot of turf to manage
for a homeowner.

Nonsense.

My first house sat on a 60'x135' lot. That's 8100 square feet. Subtract
10'x70' for the driveway, 24'x35' for the house, and 12'x20' for the garage.
That leaves 6320 square feet. I mowed the whole thing with a walk-behind power
mower in about forty minutes.

And the point is, that is an incredible amount of energy to use and
waste water and money on.