Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally dead
battery, they won't do anything.
when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
they perform well.
try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
for proper charging.
remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
running it down over time.

incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.

the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
with 3 push-on connectors.
i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
charged.
good luck, sam


--

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

Yes folks if the battery is low in power, you can't expect a sudden
recovery, it will take at least 1.5 day to charge it. I am periodically
charging my battery for my unused car in a garage.

Especially in winter, you need to keep the charge going or your battery
could
go dead, it happened to me before. Battery is like a human, it wants food,
food, food. You can't leave it for 4-5 months without foods then give him
foods again, it won't work.


-Cam



"SAMMM" wrote in message
...
a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally
dead
battery, they won't do anything.
when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
they perform well.
try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
for proper charging.
remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
running it down over time.

incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.

the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
with 3 push-on connectors.
i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
charged.
good luck, sam


--

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

wrote:
However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

I think you lost the ground connection between the engine and
frame. There ought to be a strap that connects them electrically.

I had this happen on a diesel, such that the only path to ground
was back through the glow plugs. Put on the headlights and
the engine overheats. Cute huh ?

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.


That says bad alternator/alternator path or bad terminal/connection... but
since this is the third time I have heard this exact same problem in
vehicles in two months, and each was fixed by replacing the battery...
Shorted battery/bad post comes to mind. But onward into the post

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block.

That can
1) be a multimeter impedance problem. It can't read accurately if it's
too low an impedance relative to the circuit being measured, or
2) be a directional problem in reading the rectifier (normal is it reads
ok one way, doesn't read when the leads are reversed), or
3) the probe is inable to penetrate the corrosion, etc., on the contact
point. (Scrape block before touching tip firmly to metal)
or a combination of the three

or you were measuring the reference (negative) side of the alternator- which
means no voltage.
or you were trying to read AC on DC.

It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC.

That level of voltage sounds like the voltage drop across poor cables/from
high output from an alternator to a battery. It is also close to the voltage
drop across an alternator diode.

The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts.

You were not reading the battery, you were reading the alternator voltage
output into the tractor circuit.

Alternators output around 14 volts, fully charged auto-type batteries around
11.5, give or take a few tenths

I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5.volts.

Should have dropped to 11.7 if the battery had been accepting charge and no
current was flowing in or out.


When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect.

First, remember that it's the rectifier path, not just the rectifier, and

second, voltage does not mean an appreciable amount of charge is going
into/being accepted by the battery. It could be 14.5 volts and milliamps
going through the battery

Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts.

So before disconnecting, charge was still flowing from the car battery to
the tractor battery, giving you an extra 3 volts until you disconnected the
jumper cables.

Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???


Yes. It should read around 11.5/11.7 (memory here) when charged if the
battery is ok.

But it also has to deliver amps as well - so just reading 11.5 is not
enough - if it's outputting the amps of a watch battery it's not ok, but
reading 11.5 and delivering rated amps does.

Thanks in advance for any feedback...




--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

Thank you for the quick response.

The regulator (rectifier) that I have is smaller one about the size of
a small deck of cards (engine is a 16 HP Kohler K341AQS). It is
mounted on the fan shroud, with 3 connectors, as you mentioned.

I have thoroughly tested everything I can think of as suggested in the
other posts (checking ground, voltage, etc) ... so I will be taking the
battery in to be tested and will post the results of what happens.

Thanks again!!
--
Chris


SAMMM wrote:
a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally dead
battery, they won't do anything.
when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
they perform well.
try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
for proper charging.
remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
running it down over time.

incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.

the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
with 3 push-on connectors.
i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
charged.
good luck, sam


--

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

I seemed to have found the solution to the problem I posted: a dead
battery. After replacing the battery (load test failed at the store),
everything is working fine. And, the output from the rectifier now
shows about 14-14.5 volts DC, as it should. So it seems that the
problem all along was that the dead battery was causing the charging
system to not fuction at all, and made it seem that the rectifier was
bad.

Thank you again for all of the feedback. I hope this helps others that
may find this same problem. Now I have a brand new rectifier that i
don't need... sounds like Ebay material!

--
Chris


wrote:
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I seemed to have found the solution to the problem I posted: a dead
battery. After replacing the battery (load test failed at the store),
everything is working fine. And, the output from the rectifier now
shows about 14-14.5 volts DC, as it should. So it seems that the
problem all along was that the dead battery was causing the charging
system to not fuction at all, and made it seem that the rectifier was
bad.

Thank you again for all of the feedback. I hope this helps others that
may find this same problem. Now I have a brand new rectifier that i
don't need... sounds like Ebay material!

Well, sounded like I thought it might have been. You left it without
charging for a while, this might have killed the battery and there will be
no way to bring it back. I test this theory on a brand new batter with full
power; it did die one day for not charging it periodically.

Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed
 

wrote:
Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris
You were probably right about the rectifier.
The tractor battery will, if still good, take more than a few minutes
to recharge.
10.5 volts could indicate either a bad cell, (from the abuse delt by
the bad rectifier)
or a seriously undercharged battery, (from the inoperative charging
system).
Try leaving the battery on a trickle-charger overnight before trashing
it.
MadDog