I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is in
serious need of some TLC.

The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree to send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is in
serious need of some TLC.

Zootal wrote:
I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is in
serious need of some TLC.

I do not remember exactly where I originally obtained the information
that I used to guide me in pruning my old apple tree. But it's a
common enough problem that there was once a web page devoted
specifically to the subject. Google for it. The guide recommended
taking a full three years to get the tree to its final shape. Winter
was recommended as the best time for extensive pruning, when the tree
is out of leaf. You don't say where you are located. But if you are
in the Northern Hemisphere, then your apple tree should be going
dormant for the winter soon.

The guide suggested pretty standard pruning cuts -- eliminating the
long vertical suckers, interior crossing branches, and branches growing
downward; selecting well-spaced side branches with good angles between
them; and, modest heading-back of the branches you do keep. As for the
shape, an "open center" configuration was recommended. This means that
after the main trunk branches, there is no central leader. Supposedly
this lets light/air/pollen/pollinators into the center of the tree,
resulting in more fruit.

I still get suckers every year, but they're a lot shorter and less
numerous than before. This season, I tried pruning a few of those
suckers while the tree was still in leaf. No harm appears to have
befallen the tree. I'll be pruning much more next month.

Good luck!


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Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do with
a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can see what
I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to see what I'm
working with.


"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any
cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree to
send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for
this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to
direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches
and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I
remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is
in
serious need of some TLC.

Here is some pics of the tree:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6433.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6429.jpg

It's been butchered in the past, and now it's this big sprawling thing and
I'm not quite sure what to do with it.


"Zootal" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do
with a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can
see what I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to
see what I'm working with.


"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any
cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree
to send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for
this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to
direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not
be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches
and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I
remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it
is in
serious need of some TLC.

After seeing the pictures of your tree, it looks as if it is very far gone.
Almost every
small branch is a sucker. However, you do have a few lateral branches which
could
be encouraged to be the dominant growth. I would start removing the suckers
when
the tree is dormant, taking off no more than 1/3 of them in any season. The
root
structure appears to be vigerous and healthy, so hopefully that energy can be
directed to more lateral growth. I'm curious if you are getting any apples
from it.
Any idea what variety it is? Once you get apples from it, you should taste them
to
determine if it is worth keeping the tree. I see from the picture that you are
starting
to grow some new trees. If this old tree is not producing good apples, it's
better to
cut it down to make room for new trees.

Sherwin D.



Ook wrote:

Here is some pics of the tree:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6433.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6429.jpg

It's been butchered in the past, and now it's this big sprawling thing and
I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

"Zootal" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do
with a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can
see what I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to
see what I'm working with.


"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any
cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree
to send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for
this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to
direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not
be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches
and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I
remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it
is in
serious need of some TLC.

you are right to not trim the large branches on old trees. they are balanced for the
whole tree. however, you can remove the suckers. I think what happened is somebody
whacked at the tree in spring and it stimulated suckering
spring pruning stimulates suckers
late summer pruning is for removal
what I cant remember is whether to rip the suckers off or cut them off to hinder
their regrowth. Ingrid

"Zootal" wrote:

Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do with
a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can see what
I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to see what I'm
working with.



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John Ladasky wrote:

The guide suggested pretty standard pruning cuts -- eliminating the
long vertical suckers, interior crossing branches, and branches growing
downward; selecting well-spaced side branches with good angles between
them; and, modest heading-back of the branches you do keep. As for the
shape, an "open center" configuration was recommended. This means that
after the main trunk branches, there is no central leader. Supposedly
this lets light/air/pollen/pollinators into the center of the tree,
resulting in more fruit.

I'd certainly take out the central boughs. Do it on a frost morning.
See if anyone locally wants the apple for turning. It's excellent for
that. Aim to keep the boughs that permit the easy use of a ladder.

If I had kids, that tree would be a tree-house by now.

Zootal wrote:
I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is in
serious need of some TLC.

Prune all of those waterspouts flush with the branches.

Remove all crossed and rubbing branches and dead and diseased wood.

No need for pruning paint.
Derryl
Horticulturist
Calgary AB

Boy, someone has been pollarding your apple tree. It's
pretty ugly.

Does that tree produce any apples at all? If it produces
good apples, it's probably worth trying to save. If not,
it's firewood. But it's an old tree, so it probably *could*
grow good apples, if people would quit cutting all of the
fruitwood off of it.

Where are you? There's a group called the "Rare Fruit Explorers."
They probably have a chapter in your area, since you have an
old tree like that. They would probably love to come get cuttings
(scionwood) from your tree to graft onto their trees, and they
could help you rehabilitate your tree.

Email me.

Jan
Homer, Alaska

PS: I took my Master Gardener training from a fruit tree guy
in CA in 1983, then made a living pruning fruit trees for
the next 7 years. Then I moved to Alaska and have been trying
to grow apple trees up here, with pretty good success.

In article ,
"Zootal" wrote:

Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do with
a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can see what
I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to see what I'm
working with.


"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any
cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree to
send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for
this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to
direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches
and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I
remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is
in
serious need of some TLC.


--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

Zootal,

Do you really want to keep you big, old Apple tree? Whether it bears
fruit or not?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, I suggest you look
upon the tree as having undergone masive surgery, with a near death
experience thrown in. It is a mature tree that has had almost half of
its energy annihilated in one foul sweep, the sucker growth is its
attempt to recover from such a shocking experience. For any tree to
successfully compartmentalise wounds of that size, quickly enough to
prevent any infection from opportunistic bacteria, is a tremendous
feat. For an old Apple to still be alive after what looks to be between
two and five years after the fact says something about that tree.

The Apple seems to have had a show of foliage this summer- I would say
a bit thin, but not sparse. The overall shape of the crown, although
mainly secondary growth, could be worse, asthetically speaking, it has
a hole at the top at the mid-section, and what looks to be a few
straggly branches at the base of the crown.The suckers are an eyesore,
indeed, the result of a foul deed- what Alex Shigo says is a crime
against nature (to top a tree).

At most, if it were my tree, and I appreciated its character and
presence, and wanted it to have a chance at looking handsome again, I
would resist the urge to remove some of the suckers, for two more
years, and lay a generous amount of some lovely, well rotted mulch
around the base of the Apple- at least to the outer edge of the tree's
crown. Again, I would resist the urge to shape this
not-quite-as-dynamic-as-it-once-was-Apple into something more pleasing
to my eye and sense of what this tree should look like. If it is dry,
then I would water it, not excessively, but enough.

However, unable to resist leaving the tree be, I would have a nose
around, check out the condition of the main stem,(sound? Not?), deeming
it sound I would climb the tree, and cut those stubs back to the
branch- not flush, slight angle along the markings given by the base of
the branch/stub-, and carefully remove any dead or diseased branches.

Then I would leave it alone, apart from the odd check for rot, etc.,
for two full years; perhaps a raking and an adding of mulch.

I might plant a couple of climbing Rose bushes that offered a beautiful
fragrance, and encourage them to climb the Apple.

If, after two (or more) years the Apple is still alive, then I would
look to removing perhaps one out of three of the really busy sucker
clusters whilst keeping an eye on the shape of the whole crown, and the
possibilities of growth directions, so that I removed the least number
of branches to encourage the crown to grow into the shape it offers
naturally combined with what is visually more attractive to my eye.

Then I would repeat the whole thing.



Zootal wrote:
Unfortunately, this thing is huge and probably past the point where I can
shape it. It's about 100 years old and the trunk is about 3 feet in
diameter, and the branches that split up from the trunk are easily 12". I
hesitate to touch them because they are so big. I can remove the vertical
suckers, and thin out the existing branches - but what else can you do with
a huge old tree? I'll try to post some pics this weekend so you can see what
I'm dealing with. Now that the leaves are gone, it's easier to see what I'm
working with.


"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
The suckers should be removed as they destroy the shape of the tree and
don't produce as much fruit as a lateral branch. You should not remove
more than 1/3 of a tree in any given season. Hopefully, you have enough
lateral branches growing that should be encouraged to grow faster when
the tree re-directs it's energy away from the suckers. Don't do any
cutting
while the tree sap is actively flowing, or that will encourage the tree to
send
out more suckers. Early Winter or late Fall might be the best time for
this
kind of pruning. Try to encourage a single central branch or leader to
direct
the tree
to a more pleasing shape, although with your very old tree that may not be
possible.

Sherwin D.

Zootal wrote:

I have a very large very old apple tree in my back yard. It has not been
maintained much the last few years. It consists of a few main branches
and
hundreds of suckers growing straight up from the branches. Should I
remove
all of the upright growing suckers? I hate to butcher the tree, but it is
in
serious need of some TLC.

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
Here is some pics of the tree:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6433.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6429.jpg

It's been butchered in the past, and now it's this big sprawling thing and
I'm not quite sure what to do with it.



Hi, all, thank you very much for all your comments. My neighbor tells me
that a few years ago, the guy that lived here (I just bought the house a
year ago) cut all of the main branches way back because it was sprawling so
far out. And you can see exactly how he butchered the poor thing.

To answer some of the asked questions:

I'm in Lebanon, Oregon, a small town about 90 miles south of Portland,
Oregon. I'm in the middle of the Wilammette Valley. The tree produces green
apples with red streaks. I see them at the store, but I don't know what they
are called. They are medium large sized, and actually quite good. The tree
was half covered with them - there were several places that did not bloom,
but had plenty of foliage. I cut down it's neighbor because the trunk forked
into two vertical branches, and one fork was badly rotted to the point where
it was dangerous. I didn't think the tree could be saved, so I put it out of
it's misery. I counted about 75 growth rings in the stump. This trunk is
much bigger, I'm guessing it's at least 100 years old. I'd like to save it
simply because of it's age, besides having good apples.

Here are a few shots of what they tree looked like when it was green:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF5840.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF3751.jpg

Another choice would be to take some scion off the old tree and graft it onto a
decent dwarf rootstock, so it will start producing apples quicker. If it were in my
yard, it would have to go because I'm pressed for space and this thing takes up a
lot of it. There are many other interesting fruits you could plant in the space that

opens up. The tree is not attractive, and probably not worth the effort to restore
it, especially since you can preserve the apples with a newly grafted tree.

Sherwin D.

Ook wrote:

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
Here is some pics of the tree:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6433.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF6429.jpg

It's been butchered in the past, and now it's this big sprawling thing and
I'm not quite sure what to do with it.



Hi, all, thank you very much for all your comments. My neighbor tells me
that a few years ago, the guy that lived here (I just bought the house a
year ago) cut all of the main branches way back because it was sprawling so
far out. And you can see exactly how he butchered the poor thing.

To answer some of the asked questions:

I'm in Lebanon, Oregon, a small town about 90 miles south of Portland,
Oregon. I'm in the middle of the Wilammette Valley. The tree produces green
apples with red streaks. I see them at the store, but I don't know what they
are called. They are medium large sized, and actually quite good. The tree
was half covered with them - there were several places that did not bloom,
but had plenty of foliage. I cut down it's neighbor because the trunk forked
into two vertical branches, and one fork was badly rotted to the point where
it was dangerous. I didn't think the tree could be saved, so I put it out of
it's misery. I counted about 75 growth rings in the stump. This trunk is
much bigger, I'm guessing it's at least 100 years old. I'd like to save it
simply because of it's age, besides having good apples.

Here are a few shots of what they tree looked like when it was green:

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF5840.jpg
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2006%...s/DSCF3751.jpg