OK, first we're building this wall, everyone please admire....

www.cet.com/~pennys/images/wallview.jpg

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds. We hand
pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the grass with
numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed. So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well. There are a good number of worms living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product that
would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the uneven spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s

"Penny S." wrote:


I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed. So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well.

Not really a good idea: you create "potholes" of heavily
amended soil and the roots tend to stay in them.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product that
would help the root mass break down faster?

Why? It's stabilizing the slore while your new plants get
their own root masses going.

As we fill in the uneven spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

Just leave it alone.

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to kill
weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil. At this point, you
need to focus on building up the life in the soil. This is best done
with a natural, nutrient-packed product. The only organic product that
I have found that actually works is made by a company called
Terralife. Their website: www.save-a-tree.com

Good luck!
Callie N.


"Penny S." wrote in message ...
OK, first we're building this wall, everyone please admire....

www.cet.com/~pennys/images/wallview.jpg

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds. We hand
pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the grass with
numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed. So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well. There are a good number of worms living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product that
would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the uneven spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s

Callie N. wrote:
Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to kill
weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil. At this point, you
need to focus on building up the life in the soil. This is best done
with a natural, nutrient-packed product. The only organic product that
I have found that actually works is made by a company called
Terralife. Their website: www.save-a-tree.com

Good luck!
Callie N.

I didn't specifically ask for chemicals now, did I ;-)

So you are recommended top dressing with compost then, or what? I'm not
clear. The site you recommeded really wasnt' that helpful... tree food or
some pages under constuction.

thanks

Penny S

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:24:36 -0700, "Penny S."
wrote:



OK, first we're building this wall, everyone please admire....

www.cet.com/~pennys/images/wallview.jpg

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds. We hand
pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the grass with
numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed. So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well. There are a good number of worms living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product that
would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the uneven spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s



Wow! That's pretty impressive. My back aches just looking gat all
those rocks.

The dead grass roots aren't a problem. You could use them when you're
amending your planting holes if you like. If you're not going to be
planting this year you could apply a high nitrogen fertilizer and
cover with visquine (sp).

When you're all done and have it planted don'r forget to post another
picture. I'd like to see how it will look.

zhan

Oops, Sorry Penny, I guess I wasn't very clear. The soil ammendment
product is called "Save-A-Tree", but you could use the save-a-tree.com
"Ask An Expert" page to inquire how this product will help in your
situation:
http://www.save-a-tree.com/expert.htm I read about a university study
on this product and how it boosted the microbial activity in the soil
by about 400 times! It sounds like it might work for your situation,
but maybe not.

I am from South Africa and here we have a product called EM (which stands
for Effective micro-organisms) that is imported from Japan (as far as I
know). If you spray the soil with this solution of EM regularly, it will
improve the soil live as well. It is a complete organic product as well.

Callie N. wrote in message
om...
Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to kill
weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil. At this point, you
need to focus on building up the life in the soil. This is best done
with a natural, nutrient-packed product. The only organic product that
I have found that actually works is made by a company called
Terralife. Their website: www.save-a-tree.com

Good luck!
Callie N.


"Penny S." wrote in message
...
OK, first we're building this wall, everyone please admire....

www.cet.com/~pennys/images/wallview.jpg

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds. We
hand
pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the grass with
numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed.
So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well. There are a good number of worms living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product
that
would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the uneven
spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s

(Callie N.) wrote:

Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to kill
weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil.

Oh really? Since when does Roundup kill anything that doesn't
have chlorophyll? And which soil bacteria have it?



Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
(Callie N.) wrote:

Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to
kill weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil.

Oh really? Since when does Roundup kill anything that doesn't
have chlorophyll? And which soil bacteria have it?



Tsu

yes thanks... this is my understanding of how RU works too...


Penny S

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 06:14:07 -0700, "Penny S."
wrote:

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
(Callie N.) wrote:

Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to
kill weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil.

Oh really? Since when does Roundup kill anything that doesn't
have chlorophyll? And which soil bacteria have it?



Tsu

yes thanks... this is my understanding of how RU works too...


Penny S



You mean your understanding of Monsanto's explanation. Glyphosate
has well-documented deleterious effects on soil micro-organisms. You
and Tsu need to wake up.


Synergy between Glyphosate application and Fusarium species.

This is research from the early 1980's that shows a definitive
relationship between the application of Glyphosate and the
post-application growth of Fusarium in the soil. This shows that the
soil can remain poisoned -not only as a direct effect of Glyphosate,
but by the secondary effects of an artificially-stimulated and
enlarged growth of mycotoxin-producing Fusaria.

In other words, the Glyphosate kills various soil micro-organisms
(which in of itself may be deleterious), some of those which keep
naturally-occurring Fusaria in check. The Fusaria then take over,
contaminating the soils with mycotoxins for an undetermined amount of
time, and can produce noticeably lower yields in the consecutive
crops.

Thus, ecologies that are being sprayed with Glyphosate, especially in
the Amazon area, the "lungs of the planet," may be at risk, not just
from the primary effects of Glyphosate, but these secondary effects as
well.

Effect of Soilborne Plant-Pathogenic Fungi on the Herbicidal Action of
Glyphosate on Bean Seedlings, Gurmukh S. Johal and James E. Rahe,
Phytopathology, Vol. 74, No. 8, 1984

Effects of glyphosate on Fusarium spp.: its influence on root
colonization of weeds, propagule density in the soil, and crop
emergence. C. André Lévesque and James E. Rahe, and David M. Eaves,
Canadian Journal of Microbiology, Vol. 33, 1987




"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 07:42:02 +0200, "Eugene Ferreira"
wrote:

I am from South Africa and here we have a product called EM (which stands
for Effective micro-organisms) that is imported from Japan (as far as I
know). If you spray the soil with this solution of EM regularly, it will
improve the soil live as well. It is a complete organic product as well.


I believe that SFI www.soilfoodweb.com is working on a lab in SA. You
might want to email Dr. Ingham.





"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

"Penny S." wrote:

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
(Callie N.) wrote:

Soils that are "alive" with microbes will break down organic matter
(ie. dead root balls) more quickly. When chemicals are applied to
kill weeds, they also kill the other life in the soil.

Oh really? Since when does Roundup kill anything that doesn't
have chlorophyll? And which soil bacteria have it?



Tsu

yes thanks... this is my understanding of how RU works too...

Perhaps it might be better if you developed an understanding of soils and
soil organisms. Any substance applied to the soil - and that can include
excessive amounts of fertilizers, both natural and synthetic, even
overwatering or overtilling - can disrupt populations of soil organisms.
Ecosystems, specially soil ecosystems, are extremely fragile structures
that are easily damaged and brought out of balance by artificial means.
Fortunately soils and their biomass have an ability to regain their system
balance rather rapidly, provide one does not repeatedly disrupt them,
specially through chemical means.

BTW, the statement that Roundup is unable to kill anything without
chlorophyll is naive in the extreme. It is an isopropylamine or
trimethylsulfonium salt - try pouring table salt on your garden soil and
see what happens.

Penny S. wrote:



OK, first we're building this wall, everyone please admire....

www.cet.com/~pennys/images/wallview.jpg

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds. We hand
pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the grass with
numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was vetoed. So
now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's good for
stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we amend each large
hole very well. There are a good number of worms living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product that
would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the uneven spots,
we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s



Weeds don't grow under juniper, and my isn't that a different tonic
called 'Gin' (from juniper). my dear, you may count those roots
pesistant, at least moreso then ur average rooties, nice wall

Trish K. wrote:
Penny S. wrote:

What was here was overgrown junipers, kinnikinnik, grass and weeds.
We hand pulled all the jumipers and dug the stumps out, killed the
grass with numerous applications of round up.

I really wanted to bobcat all the old crap out but that idea was
vetoed. So now we have a lot of dead rootmass from the grass. It's
good for stabilization on the slopes. As we gradually plant, we
amend each large hole very well. There are a good number of worms
living here anyway.

The real question is, is there a recommended top dressing or product
that would help the root mass break down faster? As we fill in the
uneven spots, we are bringing in top quality bedding mix too.

thanks

penny s



Weeds don't grow under juniper, and my isn't that a different tonic
called 'Gin' (from juniper). my dear, you may count those roots
pesistant, at least moreso then ur average rooties, nice wall

weeds may not gorw under them but the grass sure grew THROUGH it.

p.

Tom & Pam,

I've been away from my computer the past couple of days and was
pleased to come back and read your responses... sometimes I wonder if
people have forgotten that the soil is full of life. Someday I think
that we'll look back and shake our heads at how ignorant we all were
about the life in the soil... I'm already shaking my head.

Thanks for your refreshing knowledge on this subject.

Callie