I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

She spends hours scraping stuff out from under her shrubs, and cutting
out parts of them that she "doesn't like the looks of.". I stuff
leftover oak leaves and other yard garbage under all of them and never
look back. They get lots of water and some food, and always look
great.

She calls an exterminator over any insects that show up in any numbers
anywhere in her yard. I spray my roses with systemic insecticide, but
leave everything else alone. If she sees a spider she kills it! I have
those huge, bright green orb weavers and all manner of other spiders
all over. I hardly remember to get the abandoned "cob webs" out of the
corners of the windows and doors.

She frets over cats, swears bumblebees are really carpenter bees,
tells me the squirrells are ruining her garden, constantly rakes and
bags any waste. I feed the cats, and love watching the squirrels and
chipmunks. Every other year or so the big oaks at the back of the
property drop millions of acorns, and I never pick them up. They rot
right there unless the squirrels bury them, then they sprout. I mow
the forest twice and that is the end of them most years. But the
squirrels have a Fabulous Buffet, and never touch my roses!

When the leaves fall, I shove them under shrubs, use them as mulch,
anything but taking the time to rake and bag. If all the beds are
overflowing, there is an area under the trees where I blow the leaves
with the blower. Thrushes are always back there flipping up leaves as
they do, looking for bugs. Voles and moles have built cities under
there, but I plant my "must haves" in holes lined with scratchy rock,
and they eat the roots of the unprotected weeds, not my precious
plants. Yesterday I saw a BIG rabbit in the back, eating the abundant
weeds in the patch of green that might pass for a lawn--from an
airplane! The rabbits have never bothered my roses, gardenias, etc. A
former owner planted liriope as a border EVERYWHERE, and I know I
should have dug and divided it. But it is unstoppable! The rabbits do
eat it, but who could tell?

Because of the vole population, we have our very own Neighborhood
redtailed hawk who patrols the area and perches in tall trees staring
down at the messy yards. There are lots of sloppy gardeners in my
neighborhood. Not much is neat, but everything is lush. Flora and
fauna. The choice usually goes like this: there is just enough time to
water deeply OR pull up weeds and bag them--or there is just enough
time to rake and bag leaves OR spray or feed my roses--or "god those
weeds look terrible but I just have time to cut some flowers for the
table."

It is hard to see why I should change my ways. For once, the lazy
person is rewarded!

You're doing it my way.

The nature-phobic gardening you describe as your friend's method seems to
be very common. I used to deeply wonder how it could ever have come about
that anyone could love flowers but hate nature. I've come to the
conclusion that the majority of gardeners are motivated by a fear of the
natural world & a need to so completely tame it that it is no longer
fearful. A minority of gardeners have the opposite approach of trying to
duplicate something of nature. Here's one of my past-rants on
nature-phobic gardening:

Lawn Loonies & Envirophobia--
http://www.paghat.com/lawnloony.html
it's about people who want sterile lawns, but it would also apply to
people who can't stand a loose leaf in the garden & love the look of a
butchered rose. Rather than Messy vs Tidy, I'd call it Natural vs Sterile.

-paghat the ratgirl


In article m,
wrote:

I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

She spends hours scraping stuff out from under her shrubs, and cutting
out parts of them that she "doesn't like the looks of.". I stuff
leftover oak leaves and other yard garbage under all of them and never
look back. They get lots of water and some food, and always look
great.

She calls an exterminator over any insects that show up in any numbers
anywhere in her yard. I spray my roses with systemic insecticide, but
leave everything else alone. If she sees a spider she kills it! I have
those huge, bright green orb weavers and all manner of other spiders
all over. I hardly remember to get the abandoned "cob webs" out of the
corners of the windows and doors.

She frets over cats, swears bumblebees are really carpenter bees,
tells me the squirrells are ruining her garden, constantly rakes and
bags any waste. I feed the cats, and love watching the squirrels and
chipmunks. Every other year or so the big oaks at the back of the
property drop millions of acorns, and I never pick them up. They rot
right there unless the squirrels bury them, then they sprout. I mow
the forest twice and that is the end of them most years. But the
squirrels have a Fabulous Buffet, and never touch my roses!

When the leaves fall, I shove them under shrubs, use them as mulch,
anything but taking the time to rake and bag. If all the beds are
overflowing, there is an area under the trees where I blow the leaves
with the blower. Thrushes are always back there flipping up leaves as
they do, looking for bugs. Voles and moles have built cities under
there, but I plant my "must haves" in holes lined with scratchy rock,
and they eat the roots of the unprotected weeds, not my precious
plants. Yesterday I saw a BIG rabbit in the back, eating the abundant
weeds in the patch of green that might pass for a lawn--from an
airplane! The rabbits have never bothered my roses, gardenias, etc. A
former owner planted liriope as a border EVERYWHERE, and I know I
should have dug and divided it. But it is unstoppable! The rabbits do
eat it, but who could tell?

Because of the vole population, we have our very own Neighborhood
redtailed hawk who patrols the area and perches in tall trees staring
down at the messy yards. There are lots of sloppy gardeners in my
neighborhood. Not much is neat, but everything is lush. Flora and
fauna. The choice usually goes like this: there is just enough time to
water deeply OR pull up weeds and bag them--or there is just enough
time to rake and bag leaves OR spray or feed my roses--or "god those
weeds look terrible but I just have time to cut some flowers for the
table."

It is hard to see why I should change my ways. For once, the lazy
person is rewarded!

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

I love this thread... I wish the other posters lived by me! My next-door
neighboors seem to be flower-phobic. They have an expanse of green lawn
and a wide gravel driveway, which the husband sprays with weed-killer
every couple of months. There's one old whisky barrel with a sad little
rhody in it and a pot of fuschias on the back deck in the summer...and
that's the extent of their plants. And meanwhile, my passiflora is
reaching over the fence, racing the honeysuckle to get to the other side
first. I try to train the vines back inward, but they do follow the sun,
so it always looks like they're threatening the sterile domain next door
with creeping, grasping fingers.

The crocosmias and glads and daisies and dahlias that I've been
encouraging along my side the fence are always poking their little heads
through to the neighbors, and I've more than once encouraged them to
pick any flowers that visit their side of the fence, but they never
have. No worry about any of these spreading into their cement or gravel;
they'd get sprayed if a single sprout were to appear. The sad thing is
that they have twice the size lot that we do, but it's all given over to
lawn and bare wooden deck.

But in the summer, we sit on our tiny patch of grass and watch
hummingbirds and butterflies at the flowers, and smell the lavender and
phlox, and wonder how they can stand to sit on their very clean deck and
only smell the waterproofing finish.

M.
--

B - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Melinda Tennielle

M10TVC15 (at) yahoo.com

My garden is out in a field next to the trailer park I live in, and while I try
to keep the weeds and grass from growing over my Iris and other plants, I let
the weeds and grass's and whatevers grow in the rest of the area that gets
watered by me. I've even taken some chairs people had put by the dumpster and
set them out in the area so I can sit and just relax out there.

Yet a guy who moved into a trailer about 1.5 months ago and who I'd sware goes
out with a ruler and checks how tall each blade of grass is on the postage stamp
size lawn he has, has had the gall to say my garden is a trash heap! BUT, the
roses left from the last guy are not blooming and right now I've got a load of
Iris blooming, my canna are coming up and will be blooming by July/Aug., my ice
plant is covered with flowers. He also griped that my yard is a mess, well it
is, I've got bags of steer manure, potting soil, pots with seedlings of canna
cosmos, Dahlias, and other plants and all the pots I've collected over the last
5 years and I've got the greenest Elm trees in the park too.

So I'll enjoy my flowers in my "Trash heap" of a garden!


--
In This Universe The Night was Falling,The Shadows were lenghtening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the Stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and
along the path he once had followed, Man would one day go again.

Arthur C. Clarke "The City & The Stars"

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.Netfirms.com/
Starlord's Personal Page
http://starlord-personal.netfirms.com


"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

She spends hours scraping stuff out from under her shrubs, and cutting
out parts of them that she "doesn't like the looks of.". I stuff
leftover oak leaves and other yard garbage under all of them and never
look back. They get lots of water and some food, and always look
great.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/03

I fully understand your angst! I collect everyone's bags of raked leaves. We
live in Texas and live oak trees shed their leaves in spring. First come down
these hard brown leaves (carbon). A few weeks later, the catkins come down
(nitrogen). Free organic matter! My neighbor is still out at 7:39 pm vacuuming
his leaves and catkins. He also has plants which are addicted to chemical
fertilizers. I adore looking at the garden seeing the remains of everything I
cut back and lay onto the ground. I cut larger pieces into 4 inch size pieces
and lay them right where I removed them. I garden because I have to. I bleed
green. Some people are anal about it. I'm anal that I have to have every plant
known to Texas! We all have our ways.


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:22:28 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

She spends hours scraping stuff out from under her shrubs, and cutting
out parts of them that she "doesn't like the looks of.". I stuff
leftover oak leaves and other yard garbage under all of them and never
look back. They get lots of water and some food, and always look
great.

She calls an exterminator over any insects that show up in any numbers
anywhere in her yard. I spray my roses with systemic insecticide, but
leave everything else alone. If she sees a spider she kills it! I have
those huge, bright green orb weavers and all manner of other spiders
all over. I hardly remember to get the abandoned "cob webs" out of the
corners of the windows and doors.

She frets over cats, swears bumblebees are really carpenter bees,
tells me the squirrells are ruining her garden, constantly rakes and
bags any waste. I feed the cats, and love watching the squirrels and
chipmunks. Every other year or so the big oaks at the back of the
property drop millions of acorns, and I never pick them up. They rot
right there unless the squirrels bury them, then they sprout. I mow
the forest twice and that is the end of them most years. But the
squirrels have a Fabulous Buffet, and never touch my roses!

When the leaves fall, I shove them under shrubs, use them as mulch,
anything but taking the time to rake and bag. If all the beds are
overflowing, there is an area under the trees where I blow the leaves
with the blower. Thrushes are always back there flipping up leaves as
they do, looking for bugs. Voles and moles have built cities under
there, but I plant my "must haves" in holes lined with scratchy rock,
and they eat the roots of the unprotected weeds, not my precious
plants. Yesterday I saw a BIG rabbit in the back, eating the abundant
weeds in the patch of green that might pass for a lawn--from an
airplane! The rabbits have never bothered my roses, gardenias, etc. A
former owner planted liriope as a border EVERYWHERE, and I know I
should have dug and divided it. But it is unstoppable! The rabbits do
eat it, but who could tell?

Because of the vole population, we have our very own Neighborhood
redtailed hawk who patrols the area and perches in tall trees staring
down at the messy yards. There are lots of sloppy gardeners in my
neighborhood. Not much is neat, but everything is lush. Flora and
fauna. The choice usually goes like this: there is just enough time to
water deeply OR pull up weeds and bag them--or there is just enough
time to rake and bag leaves OR spray or feed my roses--or "god those
weeds look terrible but I just have time to cut some flowers for the
table."

It is hard to see why I should change my ways. For once, the lazy
person is rewarded!

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:22:28 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.
snip
It is hard to see why I should change my ways. For once, the lazy
person is rewarded!

Does the phrase "live and let live" ring any bells? A large part of
the fun of a community garden is criticizing (or admiring) other
plots. As has often been discussed here, there are few "right" or
"wrong" ways to garden. People's preferences differ, too. I don't have
any desire for a putting-green lawn, but others do. I like exotic and
multi-colored veg; others don't. Walking around the neighborhood, I
wonder which householder is driving his neighbor nuts -- the one with
a scraggy lawn and all the kids' plastic toys out front, or the
putting-green front with a few meticulously sculptured shrubs? Maybe
they're both delighted -- I imagine an elderly couple in the Shrub
place, who enjoy watching kids playing, while the young couple with
kids are inspired and seek occasional advice from the Shrubs.

Do whatever works for you, and let your friend do the same. And smile,
smile, smile. :-)

I agree with your philosophy! I always chuckle when I see my neighbor getting a
delivery of expensive mulch to spread under his trees when he just finished
raking out all his natural leaf mulch!

BT


"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

She spends hours scraping stuff out from under her shrubs, and cutting
out parts of them that she "doesn't like the looks of.". I stuff
leftover oak leaves and other yard garbage under all of them and never
look back. They get lots of water and some food, and always look
great.

She calls an exterminator over any insects that show up in any numbers
anywhere in her yard. I spray my roses with systemic insecticide, but
leave everything else alone. If she sees a spider she kills it! I have
those huge, bright green orb weavers and all manner of other spiders
all over. I hardly remember to get the abandoned "cob webs" out of the
corners of the windows and doors.

She frets over cats, swears bumblebees are really carpenter bees,
tells me the squirrells are ruining her garden, constantly rakes and
bags any waste. I feed the cats, and love watching the squirrels and
chipmunks. Every other year or so the big oaks at the back of the
property drop millions of acorns, and I never pick them up. They rot
right there unless the squirrels bury them, then they sprout. I mow
the forest twice and that is the end of them most years. But the
squirrels have a Fabulous Buffet, and never touch my roses!

When the leaves fall, I shove them under shrubs, use them as mulch,
anything but taking the time to rake and bag. If all the beds are
overflowing, there is an area under the trees where I blow the leaves
with the blower. Thrushes are always back there flipping up leaves as
they do, looking for bugs. Voles and moles have built cities under
there, but I plant my "must haves" in holes lined with scratchy rock,
and they eat the roots of the unprotected weeds, not my precious
plants. Yesterday I saw a BIG rabbit in the back, eating the abundant
weeds in the patch of green that might pass for a lawn--from an
airplane! The rabbits have never bothered my roses, gardenias, etc. A
former owner planted liriope as a border EVERYWHERE, and I know I
should have dug and divided it. But it is unstoppable! The rabbits do
eat it, but who could tell?

Because of the vole population, we have our very own Neighborhood
redtailed hawk who patrols the area and perches in tall trees staring
down at the messy yards. There are lots of sloppy gardeners in my
neighborhood. Not much is neat, but everything is lush. Flora and
fauna. The choice usually goes like this: there is just enough time to
water deeply OR pull up weeds and bag them--or there is just enough
time to rake and bag leaves OR spray or feed my roses--or "god those
weeds look terrible but I just have time to cut some flowers for the
table."

It is hard to see why I should change my ways. For once, the lazy
person is rewarded!

Shiva wrote:

I have a friend who hacks her roses down to stumps every year. I just
cut off what looks diseased. I have blooms now and she doesn't even
have buds.

SNIPPED.. Hmm very 1960's RHS..;-)

It takes all sorts;-)

Like the sound of your lively garden tho? Any pics online somewhere?
You can see some of mine at:
http://www.bioscape.vispa.com/cat1.html
//

Jim
North London, England, UK

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:29:41 -0800, Melinda Tennielle
wrote:

I love this thread... I wish the other posters lived by me! My next-door
neighboors seem to be flower-phobic. They have an expanse of green lawn
and a wide gravel driveway, which the husband sprays with weed-killer
every couple of months.

Eeeyyu, I hate this look.


[...]

And meanwhile, my passiflora is
reaching over the fence, racing the honeysuckle to get to the other side
first. I try to train the vines back inward, but they do follow the sun,
so it always looks like they're threatening the sterile domain next door


I love my neighbors on the south. When I had the new bed put in , I
wanted to grow some roses right up against our shared chainlink fence.
Some are big 'uns, so I knew they would spill over eventually, and
some are climbers, and, well, that's kind of the point of climbers. So
I met the female half over the fence and showed her photos of what I
had in mind. She said she liked my choices, so I went ahead and
planted. There is ivy on the fence that we both agreed to pull and
both took half-hearted stabs at pulling, then left it alone. In the
end, I decided it will look pretty as a backdrop for the roses, so
I'll TRY to keep up with it just to the point that it won't strangle
the roses. This lady is very laid back. She once watched voles (or
something) pull some of her hostas right into their holes, POP, Bugs
Bunny style, no you see 'em now you don't, and she actually laughed.
She uses Permatil in her planting holes now.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:50:07 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

You're doing it my way.

The nature-phobic gardening you describe as your friend's method seems to
be very common. I used to deeply wonder how it could ever have come about
that anyone could love flowers but hate nature.

What an interesting take on things. Could be. For my part, I notice
that this kind of, shalll we say, "controlling" ("tight-*ssed might
offend!) behavior tends to be exhibited throughout the lives of those
to whom it comes naturally. Very Virgo, you know? G I'm only half
kidding.

I love my friend, and would not have her any other way than exactly
the way she is. We provide good contrast for one another, and, of
course, also drive one another crazy at times.

To make a purchase of, say, a piece of furniture or clothing, she must
drag around to ALL stores and agonize over every choice. That bores me
so, I am more apt to order something directly from an online shop,
sight unseen. I actually ordered an armoire that way. To her way of
thinking, it should have been the wrong size, cheesy looking, etc. But
it was perfect. I was not punished for my slapdash ways, and I could
tell she was both amazed and irritated.

She spends nearly a full day going over each and every bill, credit
card statement, and her checking account, balancing the latter to the
penny. I have NEVER balanced my checking account. I just make sure the
money is in there before I write the check, then when I enter it in
the register I round up to avoid math errors. I have never bounced a
check. When I told her this, she just could not get her mind around
it.

On the flip side: I bought a front exterior light on a whim, and I
really am spacially challenged. It needed to be a size bigger. Too
lazy to take it back, I put it up anyway. So now if you look close,
you can see the hole made by the first one off to one side.

I think she rather enjoys that every time she rings the bell. It's
pretty light, though. G

Shiva wrote:

What an interesting take on things. Could be. For my part, I notice
that this kind of, shalll we say, "controlling" ("tight-*ssed might
offend!) behavior tends to be exhibited throughout the lives of those
to whom it comes naturally. Very Virgo, you know? G I'm only half
kidding.

Hey! I'm a virgo! *grin* However, I love sprawling abandon with
multihued beds without any dirt and/or mulch to be seen because of the
grooundcover. I really don't weed except for the stuff that tends to
get invasive such as chickweed. We have seven birdfeeders in the yard
and love to sit out on the patio watching the multitude of birds come
and go. My latest project is to figure out where I'm going to put the
ladybug house up that I just got mailorder.

To make a purchase of, say, a piece of furniture or clothing, she must
drag around to ALL stores and agonize over every choice. That bores me
so, I am more apt to order something directly from an online shop,
sight unseen. I actually ordered an armoire that way. To her way of
thinking, it should have been the wrong size, cheesy looking, etc. But
it was perfect. I was not punished for my slapdash ways, and I could
tell she was both amazed and irritated.

I hate to shop. Well, except for bookstores and garden shops. The WWW
has made my life wonderful. I want a book, I order it online. Most
plants I order online these days as I can get exactly what I want that
way. Best of all, I can be out in the yard enjoying it all while UPS
delivers my purchases.

On the flip side: I bought a front exterior light on a whim, and I
really am spacially challenged. It needed to be a size bigger. Too
lazy to take it back, I put it up anyway. So now if you look close,
you can see the hole made by the first one off to one side.

Probably why I have light strips in boxes in the master bedroom that I
bought on a whim for the master bath, decided i really didn't like them
and haven't yet gotten a round tuit to returning them. This was
probably almost a year ago. I do have the receipt in my hand bag now at
least. *laugh*

Susan
s h simko at duke dot edu

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:07:33 -0400, "Susan H. Simko"
wrote:


Hey! I'm a virgo! *grin*

Hee! You mean you don't act the same as 1/12th of the rest of the
world's population?


However, I love sprawling abandon with
multihued beds without any dirt and/or mulch to be seen because of the
grooundcover. I really don't weed except for the stuff that tends to
get invasive such as chickweed. We have seven birdfeeders in the yard
and love to sit out on the patio watching the multitude of birds come
and go.

Clearly your sense of the Joy of Life has overpowered the stars,
grahhshoppah!


My latest project is to figure out where I'm going to put the
ladybug house up that I just got mailorder.

This sounds damned near unbearably cute. Which mailorder? And when can
we see it?


Probably why I have light strips in boxes in the master bedroom that I
bought on a whim for the master bath, decided i really didn't like them
and haven't yet gotten a round tuit to returning them. This was
probably almost a year ago. I do have the receipt in my hand bag now at
least. *laugh*

As long as we are moving in a positive direcetion we are doing fine! I
hear that changes in later life to "as long as we are moving ... at
all!


s h simko at duke dot edu

Shiva wrote:

Hee! You mean you don't act the same as 1/12th of the rest of the
world's population?

Nope. I act like Susan. The s.o. claims the mold broke afte rme as the
world couldn't take more than one without coming apart at the seams.

Clearly your sense of the Joy of Life has overpowered the stars,
grahhshoppah!

Oh yeah. I'ld never get very far with a formal garden with a colour
scheme. Witness my trip to Witherspoon's to get another Pristine and
coming home with Granada because the colour caught my eye. Glorious,
riotous colours are my delight. I also don't like things laid out just
*so*. It's too artificial to my eye and because of that tends to take
away some of the enjoyment for me. Not saying I don't like it in other
people's gardens but I don't want to live with it day in and day out.

This sounds damned near unbearably cute. Which mailorder? And when can
we see it?

It is unbearably cute. Just like my toad houses under my bushes that no
one notices unless I choose to tell them. *grin* Anyway, I ordered it
from http://www.bestnest.com I think one of my neighbour's is having
horrors over the "invasion" of ladybugs I am going to bring on when I
put it up.

When all of you can see it depends upon me getting back to tackling my
test server. I refuse to cop out and put the photos up on my current
site as then I will have no motivation to get this other server done.

As long as we are moving in a positive direcetion we are doing fine! I
hear that changes in later life to "as long as we are moving ... at
all!

My family has a history of keeping going until we drop. My g'father had
a large garden that he kept every year up until his death at 88. I
truly believe you're as young as you want to be. My mom is very young
for her age and does remarkable stuff despite her physical disabilites.
I get in trouble with my friends in PA if we make plans to go out and
I don't bring her with me!

Susan
s h simko at duke dot edu

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .
I plunged the
shovel into the ground, pushed with my boot, and applied leverage to free
the azalea. The plant popped right out and when I looked down I had a
large
dazed mole in the shovel! I had to look twice as I was totally amazed to
see that I had removed both the dead plant and a completely intact animal
in
a single effort.

The mole looked dazed. It barely moved. My first reaction was to drop it
and cut it in two with the shovel. I put it on the ground and poked it
lightly with the shovel. It let out a pathetic squeal. I couldn't bring
myself to kill it so I just picked it up with the shovel and tossed it a
couple of feet into the wood. It laid there for a few minutes. When I
checked back later it was gone. I thought that anyone could kill a mole,
but only an intelligent being could lean to live with them.



I've heard that high pitched mewing too. It reminds you this is another
living creature. My dogs catch moles and drop them right at my feet, usually
alive. I can't kill the little buggers so I take them down to the wildlife
area and let them go in the tall brush where they can hide. Oh, the mole
mounds you see there now......

.. My dogs catch moles and drop them right at my feet, usually
alive.

So do my cats, but they are just trying to teach me the art of molehunting.
They think playing with ones' food is de rigeur, in catiquette. Waste not,
want not, they demonstrate.

One fat bud on one of the unnamed J&P minis, been there three days,
stubbornly won't pop...hope it blooms before the buggies come out after it!


Scopata Fuori