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Old 17-05-2007, 08:28 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

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Old 17-05-2007, 10:31 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

In article om,
Ook wrote:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


I'm can't prove it, one way or the other but you may want to look at
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/ .

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Old 17-05-2007, 11:33 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

Ook wrote:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


I've used it but now try to choose more 'targeted' methods/chemicals.
That is, if I needed a 'weed' killer for weeds in my lawn, I try to buy
a weed killer. Roundup (and now you have to careful as there are sevrrla
types with additional active ingredients) will affect EVERYTHING with
green growing vegetation. using it on weeds in the lawn for instance, it
will kill the weeds, it will kill the grass if oversparyed or dripped.
If you walk on the location you sprayed, it will kill the grass at the
next step or 2 (walk backwards or work to the side starting AWAY from
the house). I have successfully planted within days of using it. No, I
have not done extensive testing - just anecdotal experience. As to
toxicity - well, being outside exposes you to the harmful rays of the
sun, pollen, stinging insects and mosquitos too. Nothing is completely safe.

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl


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Old 18-05-2007, 03:04 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl


I've been using roundup on a very limited basis for spot week control away
from the garden, and for that it works great. I even used it for large
dandylions in the grass by carefully and sparingly applying it to the weed.
In the end I would probably have been better off just yanking the weed LOL.
It killed a spot about 12 inches around, and took months before anything
grew back - pre-mixed roundup is rather strong, when I mix it myself I mix
it quite a bit weaker then the instructions call for, and it works well
enough.

However....my garden was carved from a nice lush green lawn. I plowed it
over, raked out the grass clumps, and planted. Needless to say, the garden
was infested with grass and clover. This year I've been plowing it once
every couple of weeks, weather permitting, and most of the grass and clover
is dead and gone. It consists of 8 beds, with grass all around and grass
walkways going through it. Last year, these "walkways" overgrew the garden,
and I imagine they provide a nice breeding place for bugs. I'm thinking of
killing the grass because it's a pita to maintain, plus I don't want the bug
breeding grounds. I've been using pieces of cardboard with rocks to hold
them in place on one stretch, and that seems to work, but I'm short on
cardboard. I'm considering roundup, but honestly, don't really want to do
that. Right now, 3 of the beds are planted, and I've got a killer crop of
onions, and some nice potatoes starting.

This is a pic from about a month ago, you can kinda see a few of the beds
and the walkways between them. I'm open to suggestions and advice as to what
to do with the grass paths, I am in no way an expert in these matters :-P

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2007/...1/DSCF8371.jpg


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Old 18-05-2007, 03:21 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Ook wrote:

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl



I've been using roundup on a very limited basis for spot week control away
from the garden, and for that it works great. I even used it for large
dandylions in the grass by carefully and sparingly applying it to the weed.
In the end I would probably have been better off just yanking the weed LOL.
It killed a spot about 12 inches around, and took months before anything
grew back - pre-mixed roundup is rather strong, when I mix it myself I mix
it quite a bit weaker then the instructions call for, and it works well
enough.

However....my garden was carved from a nice lush green lawn. I plowed it
over, raked out the grass clumps, and planted. Needless to say, the garden
was infested with grass and clover. This year I've been plowing it once
every couple of weeks, weather permitting, and most of the grass and clover
is dead and gone. It consists of 8 beds, with grass all around and grass
walkways going through it. Last year, these "walkways" overgrew the garden,
and I imagine they provide a nice breeding place for bugs. I'm thinking of
killing the grass because it's a pita to maintain, plus I don't want the bug
breeding grounds. I've been using pieces of cardboard with rocks to hold
them in place on one stretch, and that seems to work, but I'm short on
cardboard. I'm considering roundup, but honestly, don't really want to do
that. Right now, 3 of the beds are planted, and I've got a killer crop of
onions, and some nice potatoes starting.

This is a pic from about a month ago, you can kinda see a few of the beds
and the walkways between them. I'm open to suggestions and advice as to what
to do with the grass paths, I am in no way an expert in these matters :-P

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2007/...1/DSCF8371.jpg



I'm sure others will chime in, but I think many folks use mulch fro
pathways - I dunno what type would be best though - and you may need to
rake out and replace some every year or 2 but I'd bet what yuo rake out
could go in the composter.

Carl


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Old 18-05-2007, 03:26 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

Pesticide info can be found he

http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?



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Old 18-05-2007, 03:31 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,318
Default roundup in the yard and garden

Glyphosate kills by disrupting the shikimic acid pathway in plants. Fungi
also have the same pathway. This could be a bad thing for beneficial fungi.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?



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Old 18-05-2007, 03:40 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,318
Default roundup in the yard and garden

Ten reasons to "NOT" use roundup.

Compiled by Caroline Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to
Pesticides- (NCAP)

Roundup, and related herbicides with glyphosate as an active
ingredient, are advertised as products that can "eradicate weeds and
unwanted grasses effectively with a high level of environmental safety."
However, an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and
environmental hazards can draw conclusions very different from those
presented in the ads. Consider these facts:

1. Glyphosate can be persistent. In tests conducted by Monsanto,
manufacturer of
glyphosate-containing herbicides, up to 140 days were required for half
of the applied glyphosate to break down or disappear from agricultural
soils. At harvest, residues of glyphosate were found in lettuce,
carrots, and barley planted one year after glyphosate treatment.
2. Glyphosate can drift. Test conducted by the University of
California, Davis, found that glyphosate drifted up to 400 meters (1300
feet) during ground applications and 800 meters 12600 feet) during
aerial applications.
3. Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a
cup can be lethal. Symptoms include eye and skin irritation, lung
congestion, and erosion of the intestinal tract. Between 1984 and 1990
in California, glyphosate was the third most frequently reported cause
of illness elated to agricultural pesticide use.

4. Glyphosate has shown a wide spectrum of chronic toxicity in
laboratory tests. The National Toxicology Program found that chronic
feeding of glyphosate caused salivary gland lesions, reduced sperm
counts, and a lengthened estrous cycle (how often an individual comes
into heat). Other chronic effects found in laboratory tests include an
increase in the frequency of lethal mutations in fruit flies, an
increase in frequency of pancreas and liver tumors in male rats along
with an increase in the frequency of thyroid tumors in females, and
cataracts. (ne fruit fly study used Roundup; the other studies used
glyphosate.)

5. Roundup contains toxic trade secret ingredients. These include
polyethoxylated tallowamines, causing nausea and diarrhea, and
isopropylamine, causing chemical pneumonia, laryngitis, headache, and
bums.

6. Roundup kills beneficial insects. Tests conducted by !he
International Organization for Biological Control showed that Roundup
caused mortality of live beneficial species: a Thrichgramma, a predatory
mite, a lacewing, a ladybug, and a predatory beetle.

7. Glyphosate is hazardous to earthworms, Tests using New Zealand's
most common earthworm showed that glyphosate, in amounts as low as 1/20
of standard application rates, reduced it- growth and slowed its
development.

8. Roundup inhibits mycorrhizal fungi. Canadian studies have shown
that as little as 1 part per million of Roundup can reduce the growth or
colonization of mycorrhizal fungi.

9. Glyphosate reduces nitrogen fixation. Amounts as small as 2
parts per million have had significant effects, and effects have been
measured up to 120 days after treatment. Nitrogen- fixing bacteria
shown to be impacted by glyphosate include a species found on soybeans
and several species found on clover.

10. Roundup can increase the spread or seventy of plant diseases.
Treatment with roundup increased the severity of Rhizoctonia root rot
in barley, increased the amount and growth of take-all fungus, a wheat
disease), and reduced the ability of bean plants to defend themselves
against anthracnose.

These facts about Roundup are taken From a two-part article about the
health and environmental hazards of glyphosate published in NCAP's
Journal of Pesticide Reform. Copies of the article, with complete
references for all of .the information presented, are available from
NCAP for $2.00. NCAP, PO Box 1391; Eugene, OR 97440; (541) 344-5044.


Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


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Old 18-05-2007, 05:11 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.


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Old 19-05-2007, 02:36 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense. READ THE LABEL carefully and follow the directions
including personal protection equipment and the re-entry period and
you will be fine.

Roundup has been used by professionals and amateurs alike for many
years and has been proven to be safe when used properly.

That being said, there are other methods that entail fewer hazards.
Flaming with a propane weed flamer has few risks if you use common
sense and is one alternative. Flamers are available on eBay for
around $30 including shipping.

JMHO

John


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Old 19-05-2007, 02:43 PM posted to rec.gardens
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"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.


Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?


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Old 19-05-2007, 03:33 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

John Bachman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.


Nonsense. READ THE LABEL carefully and follow the directions
including personal protection equipment and the re-entry period and
you will be fine.

Roundup has been used by professionals and amateurs alike for many
years and has been proven to be safe when used properly.

That being said, there are other methods that entail fewer hazards.
Flaming with a propane weed flamer has few risks if you use common
sense and is one alternative. Flamers are available on eBay for
around $30 including shipping.

JMHO

John

I bought a 'weed burner' from harbor Freight for $10 .(though I use it
for cleaning and lighting my BBQ pit)


Carl


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Old 19-05-2007, 03:45 PM posted to rec.gardens
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In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.


Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?


JoeSpareBedroom,
leave the man be. It must be reassuring to live in a world where you
know all the answers.

It reminds me of Donald MacDonald from the Isle of Skye, who went to
study at an American university and was living in the dorm with all the
other students. After he had been there a month, his mother telephoned
him.

"And how do you find the American students, Donald?" she asked.

"Mother," he replied, "they're such terrible, noisy people. The one
keeps banging his head on the wall and won't stop and the one on the
other side screams and screams all night."

"Oh Donald! How do you manage to put up with those awful noisy American?"

"Mother, I do nothing. I just ignore them. I just stay here quietly,
playing my bagpipes."

-------

Word to live by.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum
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Old 19-05-2007, 03:47 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.


Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?

JoeSpareBedroom,
you are obviously not a man of faith. It says right there on the can
that it is safe, if used as directed. Besides, the company (Monsanto )
must surely have done studies to insure that it is safe and, that it
doesn't still have those nasty side effect that "agent orange" had. Even
the EPA has sighed off on it. I mean Kristy Whitman wouldn't kid you,
right? Well OK, she did say the air was safe for emergency workers
around the "twin towers" and she has messed up a few other things but no
reason to go into that. Anyway, Monsanto is a name of integrity.
Everybody knows what they stand for:-) In twenty years, when he or, a
family member, comes down with cancer, he won't have that gnawing
question of "did I use it as directed"?

Unglaublich.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Old 19-05-2007, 04:07 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default roundup in the yard and garden

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly
tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for
it.

Nonsense.


Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be
nonsense?


JoeSpareBedroom,
leave the man be. It must be reassuring to live in a world where you
know all the answers.



What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.


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