"Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message
. ..
Charlie wrote:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher


America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.

Yeah, growing food for cars MAY be immoral.

Makes sense doesn't it. Convert food stocks, grown on arable land easily
devoted to a variety of uses, to fuel. Use almost as much energy to make the
fuel as the fuel actually yields. Yep, makes sense to me.

making bio-diesel from sewerage waste. Will not meet our current fuel usage
but can go some way to meeting current demand, uses a waste (shit) to make a
fuel and does not lock up arable land (grows on sewerage ponds). Moreover it
cleans the water.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC060...TOKEN=67777452

grain production vs consumption
http://www.fas.usda.gov/grain/circul...06/graint2.gif

rob

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.

Charlie wrote:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher


America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.




Yeah, growing food for cars MAY be immoral.


Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

Charlie wrote in message
...
Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America's thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.



And farmer's income and our cars are of primary importance of course. Our
mouths and stomachs take second fiddle. Point taken.

Question. Where are the bees? Another part of the equation eventually
driving us to starvation. Think bigger than just the things mentioned. Who
and what and why stands to gain from this?
Dave

In article .net,
"Dave" wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America's thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.



And farmer's income and our cars are of primary importance of course. Our
mouths and stomachs take second fiddle. Point taken.

Question. Where are the bees? Another part of the equation eventually
driving us to starvation. Think bigger than just the things mentioned. Who
and what and why stands to gain from this?
Dave

Corn is petroleum intensive. See book "Omnivore's Dilemma".

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Charlie expounded:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.


Is the US government still paying farmers to *not* grow crops?
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Ann" wrote in message
...
Charlie expounded:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America's thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.


Is the US government still paying farmers to *not* grow crops?
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Yes. Something that escapes lawmakers and the judicial system is that the
U.S. paid farmers to grow tobacco in early 60s in the form of a farming
subsidy. I won't forget it.
Dave

In article 1,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote:

Charlie was forced to post this in: rec.gardens

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Excerpt from article:

"Almost a quarter of this year’s US corn crop is expected to be turned into
fuel. Drought in Australia has added to the food prices spike, which is
feeding through to world inflation."

I swear to Gawd I'd be much happier if we went back to the horse and buggy
days.

Michael

Bikes and well designed mass transit would help. Meanwhile anyone know
what a window quilt is ?

http://www.windowquilt.com/

Bill who has a few about his home but has two cars in the drive way.
May go back to one like 1967.

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

In article 1,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote:

Charlie was forced to post this in: rec.gardens

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Excerpt from article:

"Almost a quarter of this year’s US corn crop is expected to be turned into
fuel. Drought in Australia has added to the food prices spike, which is
feeding through to world inflation."

I swear to Gawd I'd be much happier if we went back to the horse and buggy
days.

Michael

But it still takes "fuel" to feed the horse. G

Can't win can we?

Wonder what the mpb (mile per bushel) for horses is?

I still don't understand why biofuel is being manufactured from food
instead of waste! There are tons and tons of weeds and corn STALKS that
can be used instead. Wheat straw, millet, milo and sorghum straw (hell
any stalks left over from ANY grain crops) as well as the non-edible
tops from root crops.

All it really takes is digestible cellulose.

What am I missing here?

A bit of BS perhaps?

Speaking of BS, methane can also be compressed and used as a liquid fuel
and heaven knows there is enough sh** being produced!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article

..net,
William Wagner wrote:

Bikes and well designed mass transit would help. Meanwhile anyone know
what a window quilt is ?

http://www.windowquilt.com/

Rednecks use aluminum foil...

G
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" wrote in message
news
In article 1,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote:

Charlie was forced to post this in: rec.gardens

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Excerpt from article:

"Almost a quarter of this year's US corn crop is expected to be turned
into
fuel. Drought in Australia has added to the food prices spike, which is
feeding through to world inflation."

I swear to Gawd I'd be much happier if we went back to the horse and
buggy
days.

Michael

But it still takes "fuel" to feed the horse. G

Can't win can we?

Wonder what the mpb (mile per bushel) for horses is?

I still don't understand why biofuel is being manufactured from food
instead of waste! There are tons and tons of weeds and corn STALKS that
can be used instead. Wheat straw, millet, milo and sorghum straw (hell
any stalks left over from ANY grain crops) as well as the non-edible
tops from root crops.


I am involved with a client that is breaking in to the biofuel world. They
have perfected a process that turns meat-processing sludge (they are working
primarily with chicken plant sludge which is basically everything that is
left over at the end of the production run) into the appropriate amino acid
base for a biofuel blend. This sludge is run through a *cleaning* process
which has a yield rate of roughly 80% usable material to garbage and then it
is refined which drops the final yield another 10%. The end product is then
blended with diesel at varying rates depending on the needs of the final
consumer. It's an up and coming industry and they are very secretive about
the processes, etc so I don't have any idea what kind of energy use is
required to render the final product, but was told that the rendering
process does require more work than does Palm or Corn (the 2 most prolific
oil bases currently used) , but that overall, their cost per gallon is quite
a bit less due the to cost of raw material and transportation vs the other
2. (Most of the Palm oil is shipped in from Africa and there is not as great
a density in farms producing corn for fuel as compared to the relatively
high density iseen n the poultry processing areas.

KW

All it really takes is digestible cellulose.

What am I missing here?

A bit of BS perhaps?

Speaking of BS, methane can also be compressed and used as a liquid fuel
and heaven knows there is enough sh** being produced!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
Nicholson

AMEN!!!!

Of course, that would work for me cause we already have the wagon and
horses.........

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
I swear to Gawd I'd be much happier if we went back to the horse and buggy
days.

Michael

--
This is how it works in my house. Click the pic to enlarge it:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=42ko0mf
-remove "foodie" to email

Omelet wrote in
news
In article 1,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote:

Charlie was forced to post this in: rec.gardens

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Excerpt from article:

"Almost a quarter of this year’s US corn crop is expected to be
turned into fuel. Drought in Australia has added to the food prices
spike, which is feeding through to world inflation."

I swear to Gawd I'd be much happier if we went back to the horse and
buggy days.

Michael

But it still takes "fuel" to feed the horse. G

You put them on the lawn. (I do that with all three of mine.) What they
produce from trimming the lawn gets fed back to the garden in time.

Don't think that a good buggy and harness and horse cost any less than a
car, though, those days are pretty much gone. And my big boy produces
more than his share of methane -- and it's usually when I'm grooming his
tail.

"Rachael Simpson" wrote in
:

AMEN!!!!

Of course, that would work for me cause we already have the wagon and
horses.........

In our town horses are still considered transportation. I kid you not.

In article ,
Ann wrote:

Charlie expounded:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.


Is the US government still paying farmers to *not* grow crops?

Charlie,
It appears that the "New Deal" for farmers was laid to rest in the 70s
after it had been whittled at for a generation. The original deal was
where the government would loan the farmer money to hold the crop off
the market until prices went higher. If they didn't go higher, the
government kept the crop and they called it even. The reasoning being
that it was in the nations interest to lay away food for bad time and to
support the farmers who grew it. In the 1970s the above got changed to
price supports. The government decided what a fair price was and paid
the farmer the difference. Thing is as the government determined price
has dropped, farmers raise more to cover expenses, causing in turn a
lowering if price supports. By now the farmer gets about 4 cents to the
dollar for their crop, uh, commodity.

The main benefactors of the commodity price collapse for corn is Archer
Daniel Midlands and, Cargill.

The price collapse realy started in the 50s with the introduction of
chemical fertilizers. Previously, farmers had used crop rotation and
manure to invigorate their land. Now there is no need for crop rotation,
meaning more corn and lower prices.

According to Michael Pollard's book,"Omnivore's Delimma"
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...1_pollan.shtml
it takes a little over 1 petroleum calorie to produce 1 calorie of
edible corn (pg. 46, 1st paragraph). There is the possibility of using
the entire plant by converting the cellulose back to sugar but I don't
know what energy investment that would entail.

Funny thing though, before using crop rotation and farm manure, you got
2 food calories out for everyone put in and the environment was a hell
of a lot healthier.

How you making out with your clay?

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

P.S. Jan I wish I had known that this book was continuation from
Pollard's previous book, "The Botany of Desire". Damn, this is turning
into a serious amount of summer reading.