[CORVIDSTATION61]

Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark

[symplastless]

Very good question. Some trees, pioneer species as they are called, can
thrive in poor soil because they can survive for some years without
mycorrhizae. I do not know of any that cannot grow because of mycorrhizal
fungi being present. There might be one. One pioneer I can think of is
birch. Birches are planted often in urban areas which the soil is not as
poor as others. Really good question. So where do we draw the line between
poor soil and great soil? In old growth forest I did some soil testing
about the rhizosphere or rhizoplane and found the carbon to nitrogen ratio
to be 27:1. Eastern Hemlock and White Pine. Back to your question. I do
not have the answer. I know some can. On the other hand there are places
where trees won't grow and they have to inoculate with a fungus that will
infect the non-woody roots of the trees and form the organ mycorrhiza. Or
they won't grow.
It sounds like a good question.
I recommend contacting someone in the US Forest Service with a back ground
in tree biology.

let me suggest one off the top of my head.
Dr. Kevin Smith
http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/durham/4505/people/kevcv.html

He did a lot of research with the late Dr. Alex L. Shigo

Remember about mycorrhizae. We cannot inoculate the soil with mycorrhizae.
Mycorrhiza is an organ. You cannot inoculate with an organ. You can
inoculate with a fungus that will infect and then a organ forms.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"CORVIDSTATION61" wrote in
message ...

Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark




--
CORVIDSTATION61

[Charles[_1_]]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark


A counter example, Protea. Soil with adequate phosphorous for most
plants is toxic to them. Pacific Horticulture magazine had an article
about them, one place they grew very well would not support weeds.

I think there are other plants from Australia with a similar
phosphorous sensitivity.

[Bill[_12_]]

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark


A counter example, Protea. Soil with adequate phosphorous for most
plants is toxic to them. Pacific Horticulture magazine had an article
about them, one place they grew very well would not support weeds.

I think there are other plants from Australia with a similar
phosphorous sensitivity.

Take a peak at the reviews here.

http://www.amazon.com/Weeds-What-The...250043/ref=pd_
bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197500351&sr=1-1

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ysejb4


Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

[Phisherman[_1_]]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark

Of course. Every gardener knows how well weeds grow just about
anywhere. I saw a petunia growing (and flowering) out of a crack in
the street (and have a picture to prove it). Most cacti grow better
in poor soil than good soil. Now at this point I'm not sure how to
define "poor soil" and "good soil." I guess that depends on the plant
in question.

[Billy[_4_]]

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark


A counter example, Protea. Soil with adequate phosphorous for most
plants is toxic to them. Pacific Horticulture magazine had an article
about them, one place they grew very well would not support weeds.

I think there are other plants from Australia with a similar
phosphorous sensitivity.

Take a peak at the reviews here.

http://www.amazon.com/Weeds-What-The...250043/ref=pd_
bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197500351&sr=1-1

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ysejb4


Bill

Bill, I hope the holidays are being good to you. Mine started off fine
but then the relatives showed up:-(

Books like "Weeds and What They Tell" really appeal to me but some times
I wonder. One of the reviews read, in part, "Guilds, the author tells
us, are groups of plants that function as an ecosystem to provide
products for humans, create cover and food for wildlife, nourish the
soil, conserve water, and repel pests. A simple example of a guild is
the "three sisters" (corn, beans, and squash); corn stalks provide a
trellis for beans, the beans supply nitrogen to the soil, and the squash
leaves inhibit weeds and conserve water." The group kicked around the
idea this year of growing beans on corn stalks and iirc the up-shot of
it all was that there may be specific beans that do well on corn but in
general, it is a bad idea. I grew my corn in blocks and the light seemed
to have had a hard time penetrating in to the beans. The beans that grew
on the periphery did OK but they had a bad habit of pulling the corn
stalks over. The melons that I planted also had the sunlight problem and
were stunted until the "hounds from hell" found them. That was the end
of that particular problem.

The group discussions we have had have been more valuable to me than any
of the books that I have purchased.

Oh, in response to the OP. Grapes make better wine if they are nitrogen
and water stressed. If water and nitrogen are available, ad libitum,
they will vegetate and not set fruit.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

[David Hare-Scott]

"Charles" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark


I think there are other plants from Australia with a similar
phosphorous sensitivity.

This is quite so. Many natives of Oz have evolved to deal with rather poor
soil and do not do well in rich soil and may drop dead if overfed. In his
book "Indigenous" Don Burke describes planting a native garden in ground up
sandstone on a sandstone base. I thrived.

OTOH with some 700 species of Eucalypts and 500 of Acacias (to name just two
genera), and given the size diversity of the country, you will find one
adapted for almost any conditions.

David

[Omelet]

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:02:36 +0000, CORVIDSTATION61
wrote:


Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark


A counter example, Protea. Soil with adequate phosphorous for most
plants is toxic to them. Pacific Horticulture magazine had an article
about them, one place they grew very well would not support weeds.

I think there are other plants from Australia with a similar
phosphorous sensitivity.

Take a peak at the reviews here.

http://www.amazon.com/Weeds-What-The...250043/ref=pd_
bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197500351&sr=1-1

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ysejb4


Bill

Bill, I hope the holidays are being good to you. Mine started off fine
but then the relatives showed up:-(

Books like "Weeds and What They Tell" really appeal to me but some times
I wonder. One of the reviews read, in part, "Guilds, the author tells
us, are groups of plants that function as an ecosystem to provide
products for humans, create cover and food for wildlife, nourish the
soil, conserve water, and repel pests. A simple example of a guild is
the "three sisters" (corn, beans, and squash); corn stalks provide a
trellis for beans, the beans supply nitrogen to the soil, and the squash
leaves inhibit weeds and conserve water." The group kicked around the
idea this year of growing beans on corn stalks and iirc the up-shot of
it all was that there may be specific beans that do well on corn but in
general, it is a bad idea. I grew my corn in blocks and the light seemed
to have had a hard time penetrating in to the beans. The beans that grew
on the periphery did OK but they had a bad habit of pulling the corn
stalks over. The melons that I planted also had the sunlight problem and
were stunted until the "hounds from hell" found them. That was the end
of that particular problem.

The group discussions we have had have been more valuable to me than any
of the books that I have purchased.

Oh, in response to the OP. Grapes make better wine if they are nitrogen
and water stressed. If water and nitrogen are available, ad libitum,
they will vegetate and not set fruit.

Add more Bone Meal to the soil?
--
Peace, Om

Remove - (dash) to validate gmail.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

[Billy[_4_]]

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

Oh, in response to the OP. Grapes make better wine if they are nitrogen
and water stressed. If water and nitrogen are available, ad libitum,
they will vegetate and not set fruit.

Add more Bone Meal to the soil?

With grapes, the roots don't need it. I would worry about encouraging
excessive fruit by adding excessive bone meal. One way of producing
higher quality wines is to drop (cut-off) part of the crop (1/4 - 1/2).
Normally, growers are looking at around 4 1/2 tons per acre, if it is
less than that, then bone meal would probably be helpful.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

[Omelet]

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

Oh, in response to the OP. Grapes make better wine if they are nitrogen
and water stressed. If water and nitrogen are available, ad libitum,
they will vegetate and not set fruit.

Add more Bone Meal to the soil?

With grapes, the roots don't need it. I would worry about encouraging
excessive fruit by adding excessive bone meal. One way of producing
higher quality wines is to drop (cut-off) part of the crop (1/4 - 1/2).
Normally, growers are looking at around 4 1/2 tons per acre, if it is
less than that, then bone meal would probably be helpful.

I added extra bone meal to the flower bed this year.

I ended up with unhappy plants and NO blooms.

They must need a happy medium. I will do major soil revision. Might even
lift the peruvian daffodils to see if I can keep from losing them. :-(
--
Peace, Om

Remove - (dash) to validate gmail.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

[Bill[_13_]]

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

Oh, in response to the OP. Grapes make better wine if they are nitrogen
and water stressed. If water and nitrogen are available, ad libitum,
they will vegetate and not set fruit.

Add more Bone Meal to the soil?

With grapes, the roots don't need it. I would worry about encouraging
excessive fruit by adding excessive bone meal. One way of producing
higher quality wines is to drop (cut-off) part of the crop (1/4 - 1/2).
Normally, growers are looking at around 4 1/2 tons per acre, if it is
less than that, then bone meal would probably be helpful.

I added extra bone meal to the flower bed this year.

I ended up with unhappy plants and NO blooms.

They must need a happy medium. I will do major soil revision. Might even
lift the peruvian daffodils to see if I can keep from losing them. :-(

I only add bone meal to new bulbs or plants I treat as bulbs.

Bill who thinks about that mad cow stuff for some reason.

PS Just went to a new computer system and it has been slow.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

[Andrew Ostrander]

One way that this is true is illustrated by the cosmos. In the poor soil
along my house, cosmos flowers nicely. In the rich soil of my garden, it
produces only leaves. Lots of them. But no flowers.

Andrew
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"CORVIDSTATION61" wrote in
message ...

Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that
mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark
CORVIDSTATION61

[CORVIDSTATION61]

Originally Posted by CORVIDSTATION61

Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me if certain plants thrive in poor soil, does that mean they wont grow very well in good soil? Thanks Mark

Id just like to thank everyone who replied to this question. I appreciate you all taking the time out. You more than answered the question.
Many thanks Mark

[Billy[_4_]]

In article ,
CORVIDSTATION61 wrote:

Hi,
Just a quick one.
I know how to increase the soils PH. But what do i add to bring it
down.
Thanks Mark

Add pine or fir needles, or add elemental sulfur powder.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
http://www.gallup.com/poll/102577/Half-Strongly-
Disapprove-Bush-Job-Performance.aspx

[Stephen Henning]

Mark wrote: wrote:

I know how to increase the soils PH. But what do i add to bring it
down.

Hi Mark,

There are several right ways and one wrong way.

Do not use Aluminum Sulfate. The aluminum builds up in the soil and is
toxic to many plants including rhododendrons and azaleas. There is one
exception. Aluminum Sulfate will normally make blue/pink hydrangeas
bloom blue since they require both aluminum and acidity to bloom blue.

The right ways include:

Ferric Sulfate
Flowers of Sulfur (powdered sulfur)

If the soil is too alkaline, acidity may be increased by adding flowers
of sulfur (powdered sulfur) or iron sulfate. I add 1 tablespoon of
sulfur powder around the base of any plant showing signs of chlorosis.
Around established rhododendrons and azaleas, do not disturb the shallow
roots. Sprinkle the sulfur under the mulch and then replace the mulch.
Do not use aluminum sulfate. Aluminum can build up in the soil to toxic
levels eventually. One very common source of chlorosis is when lime
leaches out of concrete, such as from a foundation or walkway, making
the nearby soil more alkaline. This problem decreases each year as the
concrete ages. An annual application of sulfur can compensate for this
problem.

For table on how much elemental sulfur is needed to lower soil pH, visit:

http://rhodyman.net/rarhodyho.html

and click on "Soil pH"

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://rhodyman.net