I plant a lot of trees with good success, but I'm on my fourth Arborvitae in
this same
spot on the west side of my house (about half day sun). Living here 20 years I
am sure there was no contamination on that spot. Just across the sidewalk is
another
Arborvitae that has survived for several years now. Originally there were Red
Cedars growing in these places, but I pulled them out about 8 years ago when a
problem with Apple Cedar Rust developed. The last tree was planted last fall
and
started browning out over the winter. It may be wind burn, but everything
around it
(grass, yew bushes, apple trees, and the other Arborvitae) are unaffected. This

variety is supposed to be hearty, but I think they are susceptible to damage for

their first and possibly second year after planting. Well, I am waiting for
Menards
to get in their trees and maybe they will honor their exchange pollicy (this
current
tree was a replacement). I want to stick with Arborvitae to balance off the
tree on
the other side of the entrance walk and don't want to spend a bundle on a 5 foot

exotic evergreen. Any ideas on how to prevent another dead tree?

Sherwin

As always here are some issues to be addressed when caring for trees and
associates. I would have to see the trees.

--
Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case
Sensitive.

Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20..._planting.html

Improper Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html

Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning

Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Tree Farming and Related Problems
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
I plant a lot of trees with good success, but I'm on my fourth Arborvitae
in
this same
spot on the west side of my house (about half day sun). Living here 20
years I
am sure there was no contamination on that spot. Just across the sidewalk
is
another
Arborvitae that has survived for several years now. Originally there were
Red
Cedars growing in these places, but I pulled them out about 8 years ago
when a
problem with Apple Cedar Rust developed. The last tree was planted last
fall
and
started browning out over the winter. It may be wind burn, but everything
around it
(grass, yew bushes, apple trees, and the other Arborvitae) are unaffected.
This

variety is supposed to be hearty, but I think they are susceptible to
damage for

their first and possibly second year after planting. Well, I am waiting
for
Menards
to get in their trees and maybe they will honor their exchange pollicy
(this
current
tree was a replacement). I want to stick with Arborvitae to balance off
the
tree on
the other side of the entrance walk and don't want to spend a bundle on a
5 foot

exotic evergreen. Any ideas on how to prevent another dead tree?

Sherwin

Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:41:31 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

I'm on my fourth Arborvitae in this same spot

Oh, I cannot resist any longer.....

No! M u s t r e s i s t...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

NO! NO!

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
is......

NO. I shall resist.

Whew.

Sorry Sherwin. Jest funnin' with ya a little.

Charlie

Somehow Charlie, I am not amused.

Sherwin

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:26:34 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:



Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:41:31 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

I'm on my fourth Arborvitae in this same spot

Oh, I cannot resist any longer.....

No! M u s t r e s i s t...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

NO! NO!

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
is......

NO. I shall resist.

Whew.

Sorry Sherwin. Jest funnin' with ya a little.

Charlie

Somehow Charlie, I am not amused.

Sherwin


Somehow Sherwin, I am not surprised.

Charlie

I can't see why our anti-Palestinian, anti-Christian Zionist bigot would
be unhappy, unless it is that he is tired of waiting for another Baruch
Goldstein or wants another Rachel Corrie. Burn Doo, burn.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:26:34 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:



Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:41:31 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

I'm on my fourth Arborvitae in this same spot

Oh, I cannot resist any longer.....

No! M u s t r e s i s t...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

NO! NO!

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
is......

NO. I shall resist.

Whew.

Sorry Sherwin. Jest funnin' with ya a little.

Charlie

Somehow Charlie, I am not amused.

Sherwin


Somehow Sherwin, I am not surprised.

Charlie

I can't see why our anti-Palestinian, anti-Christian Zionist bigot would
be unhappy, unless it is that he is tired of waiting for another Baruch
Goldstein or wants another Rachel Corrie. Burn Doo, burn.
--

Billy

Billygoat,

Well, three cheers for the terrorists.

Since when are Zionists anti-Christian?

Leave it to you to bring politics into our gardening group.

You and your friend Charlie are both idiots.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:26:34 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:



Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:41:31 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

I'm on my fourth Arborvitae in this same spot

Oh, I cannot resist any longer.....

No! M u s t r e s i s t...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

NO! NO!

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
is......

NO. I shall resist.

Whew.

Sorry Sherwin. Jest funnin' with ya a little.

Charlie

Somehow Charlie, I am not amused.

Sherwin


Somehow Sherwin, I am not surprised.

Charlie

I can't see why our anti-Palestinian, anti-Christian Zionist bigot would
be unhappy, unless it is that he is tired of waiting for another Baruch
Goldstein or wants another Rachel Corrie. Burn Doo, burn.
--

Billy

Billygoat,

Well, three cheers for the terrorists.
No, I won't be supporting your side, Doo. You and your thug heros seem
incapable of learning, but if you did, the following book would be a
good place to begin.
"A Quiet Revolution: The First Palestinian Intifada and Nonviolent
Resistance" by Mary Elizabeth King, Introduction by Jimmy Carter.
http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Revoluti...nt-Resistance/
dp/1560258020/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207420778&sr= 1-1

Since when are Zionists anti-Christian?

Well, since they make no differentiation between Muslim Palestinians and
Christian Palestinians in their ethnic cleansing. But I wasn't referring
to Zionists in general, Doo, I was referring to you in the particular.

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)


Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:
That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Your parents must have had high hopes for you to succeed in the
arts... you're not going to do well in business unless you change your
name.

Billy responded:
"CHANGE YOUR NAME"(?!!).


Leave it to you to bring politics into our gardening group.
Your treatment of a poster reflects on all of us if we don't distance
ourselves from your actions.

You and your friend Charlie are both idiots.
But divinely inspired idiots.

Sherwin
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html
.. . . And then the big billy goat flew at the troll, and poked his eyes
out with his horns, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed
him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside.
There the billy goats got so fat they were scarcely able to walk home
again. And if the fat hasn't fallen off them, why, they're still fat;
and so,

Snip, snap, snout.
This tale's told out.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a Zionist.


Leave it to you to bring politics into our gardening group.
Your treatment of a poster reflects on all of us if we don't distance
ourselves from your actions.

You and your friend Charlie are both idiots.
But divinely inspired idiots.

Is that supposed to make you any less of an idiot?



Sherwin
-


I try to help people with gardening questions, while you and your pal Charlie
like
to poke fun at them, or go off on tirades about politics. Take your
comments
over to rec.punsters (if not existing, why not start it up?) or
rec.politics. Keep
rec.gardens for the gardening issues and stop trying to show how clever
you
both are.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a Zionist.


Leave it to you to bring politics into our gardening group.
Your treatment of a poster reflects on all of us if we don't distance
ourselves from your actions.

You and your friend Charlie are both idiots.
But divinely inspired idiots.

Is that supposed to make you any less of an idiot?



Sherwin
-


I try to help people with gardening questions, while you and your pal
Charlie
like
to poke fun at them, or go off on tirades about politics. Take your
comments
over to rec.punsters (if not existing, why not start it up?) or
rec.politics. Keep
rec.gardens for the gardening issues and stop trying to show how
clever
you
both are.

Sherwin

Sheldon in deed was the author of that little dialogue. I can't imagine
why I would have thought you would have written such a vile, bigoted,
vindictive, whacked-out, piece of filth like that. Thanks for ratting
him out;-) Now you can get back to designing your new settlement in the
"occupied" West Bank.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote:

Sheldon in deed was the author of that little dialogue. I can't imagine

why I would have thought you would have written such a vile, bigoted,
vindictive, whacked-out, piece of filth like that.

Because you are blinded by your bigotry, stupidity, and immaturity.

Thanks for ratting
him out;-) Now you can get back to designing your new settlement in the
"occupied" West Bank.

I'm sure he won't lose any sleep now that he is on your list, nor will I.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a Zionist.


Just because Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians
(both Muslim and Christian) it doesn't follow that people attacking
Christians are Zionists. It doesn't rule it out either.

--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a Zionist.


Just because Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians
(both Muslim and Christian) it doesn't follow that people attacking
Christians are Zionists. It doesn't rule it out either.


Why don't you take your bullshit off this gardening group?

Sherwin


--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in
fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a
Zionist.


Just because Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians
(both Muslim and Christian) it doesn't follow that people attacking
Christians are Zionists. It doesn't rule it out either.


Why don't you take your bullshit off this gardening group?

Sherwin


--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE NAME CHRISTIAN? The Doo Brothers started
this thread with the abuse to a poster and an affront to a religion.
Sounds like you should take your pile of steaming manure and leave.
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens by
the name of Christian.
------------

From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Christian wrote:
I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".

Sherwindu responded:

(not me, read ahead)


That's your first untruth... you *operate* a business.... you don't
own a business until your IRS return doesn't show you're operating at
a loss.

I'm not here to promote my business.

That's your second untruth.

I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me in
fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a
Zionist.


Just because Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians
(both Muslim and Christian) it doesn't follow that people attacking
Christians are Zionists. It doesn't rule it out either.


Why don't you take your bullshit off this gardening group?

Sherwin


--
Bush Behind Bars





Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE NAME CHRISTIAN? The Doo Brothers started
this thread with the abuse to a poster and an affront to a religion.
Sounds like you should take your pile of steaming manure and leave.
--

Billy


The O.P. name happened to be Christian. To think that Steve
criticized
him because he thought he was of the Christian faith shows the
paranoiac
personality you have.

Sherwin

A little walk down Memory Lane
-------
From: Christian
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Hi. I own a business "Professional Pond Maintenance and Fish Care".
I'm not here to promote my business. I only serve the Southern Oregon
area. I'm wanting to get any and all feedback, positive or negative,
on a website I designed recently to go with it. I advertise locally
and direct folks to my site for more information.

Here is the link:
http://allyoudoisfeedthefish.net/index.html

What do you think of the basic design?
Can you read it easily?
Ads or no ads?

I'm thinking people here are close to my target audience, being that
garden lovers usually like ponds even if they don't personally have
one.

Thank You,
Christian

From: Sheldon
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT)

(snippy, snippy, snip)

Your parents must have had high hopes for you to succeed in the
arts... you're not going to do well in business unless you change your
name.
----------

From: Billy
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: I would like some feedback..
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:16:36 -0700

.. . . . and why would that be?
-----------

From: Billy
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:04:23 -0700

Charlie wrote:
Sorry Sherwin. Jest funnin' with ya a little.

Charlie

sherwindu wrote:
Somehow Charlie, I am not amused.

Sherwin

Charlie wrote:
Somehow Sherwin, I am not surprised.

Charlie
Billy wrote:
I can't see why our anti-Palestinian, anti-Christian Zionist
bigot would be unhappy, unless it is that he is tired of
waiting for another Baruch Goldstein or wants another Rachel
Corrie. Burn Doo, burn.
---------

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:25:34 -0600
From: sherwindu

Well, three cheers for the terrorists.

Since when are Zionists anti-Christian?

Leave it to you to bring politics into our gardening group.

You and your friend Charlie are both idiots.

(I would point out it was Sheldon's apparent deprecation of
character for both the OP and Christianity. Sheldon has been asked
to clarify his remark and has declined to do so, which leaves only
the basest explanation.)
----------

From: Billy
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:04:23 -0700

(re [see above]: Since when are Zionists anti-Christian?)

Well, since they make no differentiation between Muslim Palestinians
and Christian Palestinians in their ethnic cleansing. But I wasn't
referring to Zionists in general, Doo, I was referring to you in the
particular.

And that brings up the treatment you gave one poster in rec.gardens
by the name of Christian.

----------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:53:21 -0500
From: sherwindu


Before you criticize anyone on this forum for not getting their
facts
right,
you should check yours first. The email you claim came from me
in
fact
came from: Sheldon . OK, Sheldon sounds
a little like Sherwin, but really, are you getting senile, or
something?
(This point has been conceded.)
Sheldon's
reply was obviously an attack on Christians, so he must be a
Zionist.
Isn't this your confirmation that Sheldon's statement was an
attack on Christian the man and on Christianity? Please tell me
how else it can be understood?


Just because Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians
(both Muslim and Christian) it doesn't follow that people attacking
Christians are Zionists. It doesn't rule it out either.


Why don't you take your bullshit off this gardening group?

Sherwin


--
Bush Behind Bars





Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE NAME CHRISTIAN? The Doo Brothers started
this thread with the abuse to a poster and an affront to a religion.
Sounds like you should take your pile of steaming manure and leave.
--

Billy


The O.P. name happened to be Christian. To think that Steve
criticized him because he thought he was of the Christian faith shows the
paranoiac personality you have.

Sherwin
(Then why should he change his name? If there is a benign
explanation, I will drop the subject. But to let you maliciously
deprecate the OP, Christians, Muslism, or Jews, would be to give
my tacit approval to your bigotry. Go on, make me look stupid
and give an innocent explanation of what Sheldon was talking
about.)
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml