Newbie wrote:
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the
backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or
around the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do
this. According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated
building and the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water
well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

After reading all the replies, I have a suggestion that no one has
mentioned that will work in your area. You have to find the winter
frozen soil depth first. Here is most likely what will stop you. You
have to come from the heated area at least a foot deeper than recorded
frozen soil depth and stay that deep to where you want the faucet. The
faucet you want is a valve that mounts to the pipe you put in below
freeze depth that has the on and off rod up through the stand pipe
hooked to a leaver at the faucet to turn it on and off. You have to
have a gravel bed below the valve in the bottom of the trench because
when you turn the valve off, all water drains out of the stand pipe
that is connected to the valve. Your friendly plumbing supply will
have these in stock that reaches the depth you need & can tell you
someone qualified to install it. This is the type valve on the
drinking fountains someone else mentioned, but didn't know how they
worked.

For what you want, that's too expensive. Put the freeze proof faucet
through the wall and run a re-enforced hose to where you want the
faucet and use adapters that are available to put a faucet on that
"summer outside pipe" hose.

Tom J

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:
That won't work, in fact that's really dumb. At 20F, typical for
Chicago, the water in the hose will freeze solid right up to the hose
bib in an hour, then what? You obviously didn't think this through...
it can be well below freezing for many days in Chicago... the water in
the exposed hose bib will freeze solid too (as if that hose wasn't
there), and burst inside the foundation shooting water inside...

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut
the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage
something valuable.

What a horse shit response to Sheldon's post!

It's true that a hose will only expand so far when containing ice. Very
true. Those of us who have lived in areas of real winters and real
freezing temperatures know for a fact that the hose will BURST, and thus
expand no further. The only thing that may stop it from happening is to
leave the hose end open so that water will drain before freezing begins,
or drain your hoses and take them inside before freezing weather comes.

The water in the hose bib will freeze too, if the hose is left connected
(ahhh, bitter experience, friend, bitter bitter experience -- I was a
fool!) and if the pipe bursts the leak will either be in the basement or
within the wall and siding through which the plumbing runs. It's a
bloody, bloody mess, my friend! Turn off the water supply to your
outdoor taps!! Anyone who has had their pipes freeze will tell you that
your plan is idiocy.

Dioclese wrote:


: A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected
: while the hose bib valve is open. The garden hose should have a simple
: valve on the end for open or closed. The hose's ability to expand will take
: most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.

I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
expanded in all directions and did the damage. So that worries me. Why
would the hose fare any better than a cavity in a brick or sidewalk?

Mark Anderson wrote:

: I have my spigot inside the basement and run a hose outside
: when the weather clears. That's a simple and cheap solution.

That's what we are doing right now, connecting the hose to the faucet
by the laundry machines.

It works fine most of the time, except...

(1) The door has to be open, which is problematic when we want to turn
the lawn sprinkler on and go out to run errands.

(2) If someone else in the family needs to use that faucet for a
laundry related reason and I have the sprinkler going.

So we decided it would be best to have a dedicated faucet for this
outside the house.

Scott in SoCal wrote:

: I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
: We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
: freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
: open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
: expanded in all directions and did the damage.
:
: Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the
: rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it
: freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to
: expand in other directions.

Makes sense and also, the open end closest to the cold air should
freeze first, forming the kind of barrier you suggest. Then, the same
will happen to the hose. The open air will freeze first, causing the
rest of the water to damage the pipe when it freezes later.

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:07:39 -0600, Pennyaline
wrote:

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut
the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage
something valuable.
What a horse shit response to Sheldon's post!

I don't expect you to get the joke, but all the chi.general regulars
do.


I understood that your response was absurd. Did I say that digging a
deeper basement in anticipation was a bad idea? No. I said the response
was horse shit, as in you didn't respond to the previous post at all.

But if your response to me means that this whole outdoor water in
Chicago climate thing is a joke among the chi.general regulars and
nothing more, then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.
Otherwise, take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU
when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?

In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

In article ,
Scott in SoCal wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 23:16:52 -0500, Newbie wrote:

I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
expanded in all directions and did the damage.

Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the
rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it
freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to
expand in other directions.

If ice is like toothpaste, then why can it crack boulders? The
answer is, that it isn't like toothpaste and when it forms its'
lattice and freezes it takes more space, in all directions.
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Are you cute?

"Pennyaline" wrote in message
...
KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors forever,
know what I mean?

Ron T. wrote:

"Pennyaline" wrote in message

...

KK wrote:
In article ,
*Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors forever,
know what I mean?



Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".

And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down
there on your estate, Ron...???


--
Best
Greg

In article , Newbie Nobody wrote:
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.


well, you got a *lot* of it, almost a 40/60% signal to noise ratio!

My house had a short (6 foot) section of pipe under the back porch when
I purchased it.

The first summer I got tired of the regular faucet that leaked,
and put a ball valve inline with it (in addition to the ball
valve inside the basement).

Out of 13 years, the "remember to shut off the water before the
first hard freeze" has worked 10 times. 2 of the brain failures
were at the new, outside ball valve which, happily, was made of
aluminum and ended up being an easy-to-fix sacrifical lamb.

The third/ten failure was last winter...a 90 degree elbow under
the porch. Almost just as easy, but on my back under the porch.
A little plumber's tape, tighten, and you are done. Pretty simple
stuff.

All the failures have been minor as far as mess goes...the pipe
splits a tiny crack, the pressure is released, and you get a
mist stream shooting out of the pipe.

So, if you *do* run pipe outside,

1) make sure all of it is easy to get to...don't run under your deck!

2) remember to shut off inside, and open outside, before the first
freeze

3) a small section of aluminum pipe at the easiest place to get to
(near the end) wouldn't hurt...

--Ken
--
Ken R. Dye an optimist is a guy |
Chicago, Illinois that has never had |
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8746 much experience |
dye1146 at sbcglobal dot net archy |

"Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
...
Ron T. wrote:

"Pennyaline" wrote in message

...

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors
forever,
know what I mean?



Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".

And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down
there on your estate, Ron...???


--
Best
Greg

I put in tomatos ( 3 types), green peppers, red peppers, cucumbers,
watermelon, lettuce, red and russet potatos, turnips, collards, and
cantaloupe this year, Greg.

I have a section of kinda-field area that I try to keep some good herbs in,
and a section near the woods-line that I keep in mint for juleps.

Bib overalls and straw hat optional.

Nice thing is, I have access to all the cow manure I can carry away, and a
couple people bring their fish parts after an outing.

There's a federal drug unit that flys in the area from spring to fall with
spectrum-scanning stuff looking for cannabis fields, which are a huge cash
crop down here. When we see the black helicopters, we know it's time to
plant the garden.

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2008 11:49:06 -0600, Pennyaline
wrote:

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.
**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!
No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

"Take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU
when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?"

Excellent work! Excellent! You have now graduated "Quotations in
Newsgroups." Wonderful! The next module is "The Subtle and Vital
Differences Between 'Shut the **** Up,' '**** You' and 'Go **** Yourself.'"

When you've completed the next module and passed the post test, take the
information you have gained and direct it toward the OP.

'and til we see each other for our next class, STFU.