Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Newbie wrote:
However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

That handyman is full of shit. Slope the outside pipe at about 2" in 10'
and add a shutoff inside the house. Shut off the line before the first
freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC
outside for 10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off the
line early enough. Still suggest wrapping the outside pipe with cheap
foam insulation to help keep the PVC from sun and UV rays.

You might want to check with a plumber- there's some strange city codes
that might apply.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut
the water off before freezing?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Newbie wrote:
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

The best method is to install frost proof hose bibs at every
location... they take the place of having a separate shutoff valve
inside your heated building, which sooner of later you will neglect to
close.

http://tinyurl.com/52fp9o

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...2AS&lpage=none

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Newbie wrote:

We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

The trick is that the valve itself is inside the heated area with only
the handle in the cold. They make special valves like this for Chicago
winters.

If you are ever in Schamburg, the Pace Northwest Transportation Center
(off-street bus layover point just south of Woodfield Mall off
Martingale) has water fountains that work all winter; pretty cool. There
is a brief delay before you get water, as the valve is several feet away.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

My father simply removed the faucet handle for cold weather. On the
house I grew up in, it was a simple spigot with no protection from
freezing at all.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

On May 5, 5:01 am, Newbie wrote:
barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut
the water off before freezing?

"Shut off the line before the first
freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC
outside for 10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off
the
line early enough. "

The story is right there. "Shut off the line before the first freeze"
is a lot like the guy on the bus telling the woman wanting directions
to Main Street: "Just watch me and get off the stop before I do." I
think "no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early
enough" says it all -- Do you really want to live in fear of your
plumbing? One unexpected cold snap while you're out of town, and
you'll have a burst pipe and an icerink in your back yard -- and maybe
even your front yard.

I would have a hose bibb installed on an outside wall where it's not
going to be under a porch. Then get one of those decorative hose reels
that you mount to a wall, and install it on the porch in your dream
location. Then could run a length of hose from the new faucet to the
hose reel.

You will get in the habit of shutting off the water at the house
faucet when you're done watering for the day, so no pipes will freeze.
Put one of those 69 cent globe valves in series if you want to shut
off the water temporarily during the day.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

On May 4, 10:55 pm, Nunya Bidness
wrote:

You might want to check with a plumber- there's some strange city codes
that might apply.

Does the code require an anti-siphon valve?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article
,
wrote:

On May 5, 5:01 am, Newbie wrote:
barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut
the water off before freezing?

"Shut off the line before the first
freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC
outside for 10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off
the
line early enough. "

The story is right there. "Shut off the line before the first freeze"
is a lot like the guy on the bus telling the woman wanting directions
to Main Street: "Just watch me and get off the stop before I do." I
think "no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early
enough" says it all -- Do you really want to live in fear of your
plumbing? One unexpected cold snap while you're out of town, and
you'll have a burst pipe and an icerink in your back yard -- and maybe
even your front yard.

I would have a hose bibb installed on an outside wall where it's not
going to be under a porch. Then get one of those decorative hose reels
that you mount to a wall, and install it on the porch in your dream
location. Then could run a length of hose from the new faucet to the
hose reel.

You will get in the habit of shutting off the water at the house
faucet when you're done watering for the day, so no pipes will freeze.
Put one of those 69 cent globe valves in series if you want to shut
off the water temporarily during the day.

I leave the whole kit and kaboodle on and generally only have to replace
the vlave outside every Spring. It generally doesn't explode until way
into January.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article ,
Scott in SoCal wrote:

On Mon, 5 May 2008 06:39:47 -0500, barbie gee
wrote:



On Mon, 5 May 2008, Nunya Bidness wrote:

Newbie wrote:
However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

That handyman is full of shit. Slope the outside pipe at about 2" in 10'
and
add a shutoff inside the house. Shut off the line before the first freeze,
and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC outside for
10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early
enough. Still suggest wrapping the outside pipe with cheap foam insulation
to
help keep the PVC from sun and UV rays.

You might want to check with a plumber- there's some strange city codes
that
might apply.

Even if you can, I wouldn't.

You enjoy redoing all of your plumbing work when an inspector
discovers that you didn't follow code?

why would an inspector stop by?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article , Newbie
wrote:

barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut
the water off before freezing?

"being careful" is harder to do than it sounds.

..max

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article says...
You might want to check with a plumber- there's some strange city codes
that might apply.

Those strange plumbing city codes are only there to protect the plumbers
union and have little to do with protecting the users of the plumbing.
In Chicago most plumbing jobs are don't ask, don't tell. I have my
spigot inside the basement and run a hose outside when the weather
clears. That's a simple and cheap solution.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

The temperature, be it at freezing, or, at 50F below is of no consequence as
ice is ice is ice. It expands no further. So, by the same nature, the pipe
that holds that water that turns to ice is of no further danger once it
freezes. Doesn't matter if you're in upper Alaska, or southern Florida.

A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected
while the hose bib valve is open. The garden hose should have a simple
valve on the end for open or closed. The hose's ability to expand will take
most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.

Regarding the UPVC comment from another. UPVC is commonly available in #40
and #80. It will easily take any common water pressure. Commonly used as
electrical conduit.

I have a similar arrangement in central TX. I no longer close the secondary
valve that feeds the hose bib as result. Lowest temp to date has been 14F.
3' of pipe is exposed vertically.
--
Dave

Parkinson's disease, not easy to define.
Much less cure.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

KK wrote:

In article
,





wrote:
On May 5, 5:01 am, Newbie wrote:
barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut
the water off before freezing?

"Shut off the line before the first
freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC
outside for 10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off
the
line early enough. "

The story is right there. "Shut off the line before the first freeze"
is a lot like the guy on the bus telling the woman wanting directions
to Main Street: "Just watch me and get off the stop before I do." I
think "no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early
enough" says it all -- Do you really want to live in fear of your
plumbing? One unexpected cold snap while you're out of town, and
you'll have a burst pipe and an icerink in your back yard -- and maybe
even your front yard.

I would have a hose bibb installed on an outside wall where it's not
going to be under a porch. Then get one of those decorative hose reels
that you mount to a wall, and install it on the porch in your dream
location. Then could run a length of hose from the new faucet to the
hose reel.

You will get in the habit of shutting off the water at the house
faucet when you're done watering for the day, so no pipes will freeze.
Put one of those 69 cent globe valves in series if you want to shut
off the water temporarily during the day.

I leave the whole kit and kaboodle on and generally only have to replace
the vlave outside every Spring. It generally doesn't explode until way
into January.


And here all along I thought you got yer water from the fire
hydrant...

Yer yard is MUD anyways...just slop it down once in awhiles to
disperse the cig butts and canine turds...


--
Best
Greg

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

On May 5, 4:49�pm, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
"Newbie" wrote in message

...





We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

The temperature, be it at freezing, or, at 50F below is of no consequence as
ice is ice is ice. �It expands no further. �So, by the same nature, the pipe
that holds that water that turns to ice is of no further danger once it
freezes. �Doesn't matter if you're in upper Alaska, or southern Florida.

A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected
while the hose bib valve is open. �The garden hose should have a simple
valve on the end for open or closed. �The hose's ability to expand will take
most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.

That won't work, in fact that's really dumb. At 20F, typical for
Chicago, the water in the hose will freeze solid right up to the hose
bib in an hour, then what? You obviously didn't think this through...
it can be well below freezing for many days in Chicago... the water in
the exposed hose bib will freeze solid too (as if that hose wasn't
there), and burst inside the foundation shooting water inside...
you'll know it burst when you find a flooded basement. If you're very
lucky you'll discover the damage before the temperature drops further
and the saturated masonary foundation cracks into a billion bits.
According to your theory millions and millions of people have been
doing it all wrong... during freezing winters everyone should leave
their garden hose connected with the hose bib valve open. LOL

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article ,
Mark Anderson wrote:

Those strange plumbing city codes are only there to protect the plumbers
union and have little to do with protecting the users of the plumbing.

yeah right

The shitboxes they are building off of I-55 past 53 with plastic supply
plumbing are not gonna be around 100 years from now. Chicago houses will
be.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Newbie wrote:
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the
backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or
around the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do
this. According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated
building and the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water
well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

After reading all the replies, I have a suggestion that no one has
mentioned that will work in your area. You have to find the winter
frozen soil depth first. Here is most likely what will stop you. You
have to come from the heated area at least a foot deeper than recorded
frozen soil depth and stay that deep to where you want the faucet. The
faucet you want is a valve that mounts to the pipe you put in below
freeze depth that has the on and off rod up through the stand pipe
hooked to a leaver at the faucet to turn it on and off. You have to
have a gravel bed below the valve in the bottom of the trench because
when you turn the valve off, all water drains out of the stand pipe
that is connected to the valve. Your friendly plumbing supply will
have these in stock that reaches the depth you need & can tell you
someone qualified to install it. This is the type valve on the
drinking fountains someone else mentioned, but didn't know how they
worked.

For what you want, that's too expensive. Put the freeze proof faucet
through the wall and run a re-enforced hose to where you want the
faucet and use adapters that are available to put a faucet on that
"summer outside pipe" hose.

Tom J

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:
That won't work, in fact that's really dumb. At 20F, typical for
Chicago, the water in the hose will freeze solid right up to the hose
bib in an hour, then what? You obviously didn't think this through...
it can be well below freezing for many days in Chicago... the water in
the exposed hose bib will freeze solid too (as if that hose wasn't
there), and burst inside the foundation shooting water inside...

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut
the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage
something valuable.

What a horse shit response to Sheldon's post!

It's true that a hose will only expand so far when containing ice. Very
true. Those of us who have lived in areas of real winters and real
freezing temperatures know for a fact that the hose will BURST, and thus
expand no further. The only thing that may stop it from happening is to
leave the hose end open so that water will drain before freezing begins,
or drain your hoses and take them inside before freezing weather comes.

The water in the hose bib will freeze too, if the hose is left connected
(ahhh, bitter experience, friend, bitter bitter experience -- I was a
fool!) and if the pipe bursts the leak will either be in the basement or
within the wall and siding through which the plumbing runs. It's a
bloody, bloody mess, my friend! Turn off the water supply to your
outdoor taps!! Anyone who has had their pipes freeze will tell you that
your plan is idiocy.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Dioclese wrote:


: A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected
: while the hose bib valve is open. The garden hose should have a simple
: valve on the end for open or closed. The hose's ability to expand will take
: most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.

I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
expanded in all directions and did the damage. So that worries me. Why
would the hose fare any better than a cavity in a brick or sidewalk?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Mark Anderson wrote:

: I have my spigot inside the basement and run a hose outside
: when the weather clears. That's a simple and cheap solution.

That's what we are doing right now, connecting the hose to the faucet
by the laundry machines.

It works fine most of the time, except...

(1) The door has to be open, which is problematic when we want to turn
the lawn sprinkler on and go out to run errands.

(2) If someone else in the family needs to use that faucet for a
laundry related reason and I have the sprinkler going.

So we decided it would be best to have a dedicated faucet for this
outside the house.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Scott in SoCal wrote:

: I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
: We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
: freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
: open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
: expanded in all directions and did the damage.
:
: Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the
: rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it
: freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to
: expand in other directions.

Makes sense and also, the open end closest to the cold air should
freeze first, forming the kind of barrier you suggest. Then, the same
will happen to the hose. The open air will freeze first, causing the
rest of the water to damage the pipe when it freezes later.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:07:39 -0600, Pennyaline
wrote:

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut
the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage
something valuable.
What a horse shit response to Sheldon's post!

I don't expect you to get the joke, but all the chi.general regulars
do.


I understood that your response was absurd. Did I say that digging a
deeper basement in anticipation was a bad idea? No. I said the response
was horse shit, as in you didn't respond to the previous post at all.

But if your response to me means that this whole outdoor water in
Chicago climate thing is a joke among the chi.general regulars and
nothing more, then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.
Otherwise, take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU
when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article ,
Scott in SoCal wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 23:16:52 -0500, Newbie wrote:

I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me.
We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and
freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely
open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it
expanded in all directions and did the damage.

Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the
rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it
freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to
expand in other directions.

If ice is like toothpaste, then why can it crack boulders? The
answer is, that it isn't like toothpaste and when it forms its'
lattice and freezes it takes more space, in all directions.
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Are you cute?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

"Pennyaline" wrote in message
...
KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors forever,
know what I mean?

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Ron T. wrote:

"Pennyaline" wrote in message

...

KK wrote:
In article ,
*Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors forever,
know what I mean?



Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".

And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down
there on your estate, Ron...???


--
Best
Greg

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

In article , Newbie Nobody wrote:
We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard
lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around
the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh
faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the
brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this.
According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and
the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well
before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.


well, you got a *lot* of it, almost a 40/60% signal to noise ratio!

My house had a short (6 foot) section of pipe under the back porch when
I purchased it.

The first summer I got tired of the regular faucet that leaked,
and put a ball valve inline with it (in addition to the ball
valve inside the basement).

Out of 13 years, the "remember to shut off the water before the
first hard freeze" has worked 10 times. 2 of the brain failures
were at the new, outside ball valve which, happily, was made of
aluminum and ended up being an easy-to-fix sacrifical lamb.

The third/ten failure was last winter...a 90 degree elbow under
the porch. Almost just as easy, but on my back under the porch.
A little plumber's tape, tighten, and you are done. Pretty simple
stuff.

All the failures have been minor as far as mess goes...the pipe
splits a tiny crack, the pressure is released, and you get a
mist stream shooting out of the pipe.

So, if you *do* run pipe outside,

1) make sure all of it is easy to get to...don't run under your deck!

2) remember to shut off inside, and open outside, before the first
freeze

3) a small section of aluminum pipe at the easiest place to get to
(near the end) wouldn't hurt...

--Ken
--
Ken R. Dye an optimist is a guy |
Chicago, Illinois that has never had |
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8746 much experience |
dye1146 at sbcglobal dot net archy |

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

"Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
...
Ron T. wrote:

"Pennyaline" wrote in message

...

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.

**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

Berating kenji does no good.

Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors
forever,
know what I mean?



Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".

And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down
there on your estate, Ron...???


--
Best
Greg

I put in tomatos ( 3 types), green peppers, red peppers, cucumbers,
watermelon, lettuce, red and russet potatos, turnips, collards, and
cantaloupe this year, Greg.

I have a section of kinda-field area that I try to keep some good herbs in,
and a section near the woods-line that I keep in mint for juleps.

Bib overalls and straw hat optional.

Nice thing is, I have access to all the cow manure I can carry away, and a
couple people bring their fish parts after an outing.

There's a federal drug unit that flys in the area from spring to fall with
spectrum-scanning stuff looking for cannabis fields, which are a huge cash
crop down here. When we see the black helicopters, we know it's time to
plant the garden.

Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate
 

Scott in SoCal wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2008 11:49:06 -0600, Pennyaline
wrote:

KK wrote:
In article ,
Pennyaline wrote:

then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting.
**** you!

Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!
No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell
ol' "Newbie" to go **** *himself* for starting the xpost in the first
place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!

"Take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU
when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?"

Excellent work! Excellent! You have now graduated "Quotations in
Newsgroups." Wonderful! The next module is "The Subtle and Vital
Differences Between 'Shut the **** Up,' '**** You' and 'Go **** Yourself.'"

When you've completed the next module and passed the post test, take the
information you have gained and direct it toward the OP.

'and til we see each other for our next class, STFU.