I have a large old apple tree in my back yard. I'm guessing it's ~100 years
old based on the neighborhood and the number of growth rings on a smaller
tree near it that I had to cut down a few years ago. Several years ago,
someone butchered it - they cut all of the main branches back to about 15
feet from the trunk. Their reason - they didn't like how it sprawled all
over. I don't know how badly this shocked the tree. I've been gently pruning
it every year, trying to remove the vertical suckers and open up the crown,
with a fairly good rate of sucess. This year is it loaded with hundreds of
apples. So, anyhow, my questions

1) I noticed this hole on one of the branches. The opening is a bit more
then in inch in diameter, and you can see wood shavings that have fallen out
of the hole. What would make a hole like this in a tree? I can't see
anything in the hole, and don't know how deep it goes - I don't really want
to stick my fingers in it :-)

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2788.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2789.JPG

2) See how the bark is peeling? The top of the branch is dried and
splitting. Is this branch dying, and should I take any action at this time,
like cut it off or try to save it? The other branches do not exhibit this
behavior.

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2794.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2790.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2792.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2791.JPG

The hole looks like the one produced by the goat moth caterpillar in Europe - and I believe there is a similar moth in the US called a carpenter moth. They are usually regarded as pests as they can kill trees. I think if you only have the one hole in an old tree, you probably don't have to worry too much.

"beccabunga" wrote in message
...

'Zootal[_3_ Wrote:
;797955']I have a large old apple tree in my back yard. I'm guessing
it's ~100 years
old based on the neighborhood and the number of growth rings on a
smaller
tree near it that I had to cut down a few years ago. Several years ago,

someone butchered it - they cut all of the main branches back to about
15
feet from the trunk. Their reason - they didn't like how it sprawled
all
over. I don't know how badly this shocked the tree. I've been gently
pruning
it every year, trying to remove the vertical suckers and open up the
crown,
with a fairly good rate of sucess. This year is it loaded with hundreds
of
apples. So, anyhow, my questions

1) I noticed this hole on one of the branches. The opening is a bit
more
then in inch in diameter, and you can see wood shavings that have
fallen out
of the hole. What would make a hole like this in a tree? I can't see
anything in the hole, and don't know how deep it goes - I don't really
want
to stick my fingers in it :-)

http://tinyurl.com/3qv8b5
http://tinyurl.com/4m7vg4
It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I would
suspect carpenter bee. They are readily viewable "hanging" around their
bores. If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would say
definitely carpenter bee.

"Don Staples" (Salvage Hog)

It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I would
suspect carpenter bee. They are readily viewable "hanging" around their
bores. If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would say
definitely carpenter bee.

First, with the bee inside the wood proves structure is not dead. The wood
is symplastless for sure, dead, no way.

Carpenter ants for one. The tree, when wounded, sets boundaries in which
the ants respect. They go to wood that was present at the time of wounding
and make galleries. The galleries control the environment inside the tree
and wood products. They keep moisture low and that is to the disadvantage
of the decay pathogen. So, they stall rot in trees and in wood products in
your house as well. When products are made from trees with many wounds, the
stage is set for termites and carpenter ants. They know that wood is
beginning to rot. How do they know? Anyway when flush cuts are made on
trees such as conifers, with resin ducts, the area around the flush cut
becomes very resinated (sic?) and resist penetration of wood preservatives.
When the resins breakdown when the product is in use, the wood is subject to
decay because the trees protection (resins) has come to an end and there are
no preservatives in that area. I am not a wood products expert but I do
understand trees and their products. In our area when you see the dust its
either carpenter bees or carpenter ants. Carpenter bees dust is more
uniform I believe. May not be ants but if it is - they are good for the
tree! The wood peckers come for the carpenter bees in our house. They
found the young bees. They leave long shivers of wood and chips. Carpenter
bees do live in symplastless wood. No other single living organism house
more walks of life than a tree. The only time the wood is dead is when it
is ashes after fire. Always something alive living in the and part of the
wood. Unless torched!


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Staples" (Salvage Hog)

It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I would
suspect carpenter bee. They are readily viewable "hanging" around their
bores. If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would say
definitely carpenter bee.

First, with the bee inside the wood proves structure is not dead. The
wood is symplastless for sure, dead, no way.

Carpenter ants for one. The tree, when wounded, sets boundaries in which
the ants respect. They go to wood that was present at the time of
wounding
and make galleries. The galleries control the environment inside the tree
and wood products. They keep moisture low and that is to the disadvantage
of the decay pathogen. So, they stall rot in trees and in wood products
in
your house as well. When products are made from trees with many wounds,
the
stage is set for termites and carpenter ants. They know that wood is
beginning to rot. How do they know? Anyway when flush cuts are made on
trees such as conifers, with resin ducts, the area around the flush cut
becomes very resinated (sic?) and resist penetration of wood
preservatives.
When the resins breakdown when the product is in use, the wood is subject
to
decay because the trees protection (resins) has come to an end and there
are
no preservatives in that area. I am not a wood products expert but I do
understand trees and their products. In our area when you see the dust
its
either carpenter bees or carpenter ants. Carpenter bees dust is more
uniform I believe. May not be ants but if it is - they are good for the
tree! The wood peckers come for the carpenter bees in our house. They
found the young bees. They leave long shivers of wood and chips.
Carpenter bees do live in symplastless wood. No other single living
organism house more walks of life than a tree. The only time the wood is
dead is when it is ashes after fire. Always something alive living in the
and part of the wood. Unless torched!

Dead wood, dead as your intellect. Maggots do not give life to a corpes.
Nor do ideas give life to your befuddled thinking.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Buttercup
http://hfome.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treefdictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books
that will give them understanding.

"Don Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Staples" (Salvage Hog)

It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I
would suspect carpenter bee. They are readily viewable "hanging" around
their bores. If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would
say definitely carpenter bee.

First, with the bee inside the wood proves structure is not dead. The
wood is symplastless for sure, dead, no way.

Carpenter ants for one. The tree, when wounded, sets boundaries in which
the ants respect. They go to wood that was present at the time of
wounding
and make galleries. The galleries control the environment inside the
tree
and wood products. They keep moisture low and that is to the
disadvantage
of the decay pathogen. So, they stall rot in trees and in wood products
in
your house as well. When products are made from trees with many wounds,
the
stage is set for termites and carpenter ants. They know that wood is
beginning to rot. How do they know? Anyway when flush cuts are made on
trees such as conifers, with resin ducts, the area around the flush cut
becomes very resinated (sic?) and resist penetration of wood
preservatives.
When the resins breakdown when the product is in use, the wood is subject
to
decay because the trees protection (resins) has come to an end and there
are
no preservatives in that area. I am not a wood products expert but I do
understand trees and their products. In our area when you see the dust
its
either carpenter bees or carpenter ants. Carpenter bees dust is more
uniform I believe. May not be ants but if it is - they are good for the
tree! The wood peckers come for the carpenter bees in our house. They
found the young bees. They leave long shivers of wood and chips.
Carpenter bees do live in symplastless wood. No other single living
organism house more walks of life than a tree. The only time the wood is
dead is when it is ashes after fire. Always something alive living in
the and part of the wood. Unless torched!

Dead wood, dead as your intellect. Maggots do not give life to a corpes.
Nor do ideas give life to your befuddled thinking.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm


For starters, the fungi that infect non-woody roots of trees and form
mycorrhizae, are the base of the food web. It thrives in nurse logs? Up to
35% of a nurse log can be fungi cells alone. You call that dead? How do
you compare that to maggots? I do not see the association?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.

"Don Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Staples" (Salvage Hog)

It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I
would suspect carpenter bee. They are readily viewable "hanging" around
their bores. If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would
say definitely carpenter bee.

First, with the bee inside the wood proves structure is not dead. The
wood is symplastless for sure, dead, no way.

Carpenter ants for one. The tree, when wounded, sets boundaries in which
the ants respect. They go to wood that was present at the time of
wounding
and make galleries. The galleries control the environment inside the
tree
and wood products. They keep moisture low and that is to the
disadvantage
of the decay pathogen. So, they stall rot in trees and in wood products
in
your house as well. When products are made from trees with many wounds,
the
stage is set for termites and carpenter ants. They know that wood is
beginning to rot. How do they know? Anyway when flush cuts are made on
trees such as conifers, with resin ducts, the area around the flush cut
becomes very resinated (sic?) and resist penetration of wood
preservatives.
When the resins breakdown when the product is in use, the wood is subject
to
decay because the trees protection (resins) has come to an end and there
are
no preservatives in that area. I am not a wood products expert but I do
understand trees and their products. In our area when you see the dust
its
either carpenter bees or carpenter ants. Carpenter bees dust is more
uniform I believe. May not be ants but if it is - they are good for the
tree! The wood peckers come for the carpenter bees in our house. They
found the young bees. They leave long shivers of wood and chips.
Carpenter bees do live in symplastless wood. No other single living
organism house more walks of life than a tree. The only time the wood is
dead is when it is ashes after fire. Always something alive living in
the and part of the wood. Unless torched!

Dead wood, dead as your intellect. Maggots do not give life to a corpes.
Nor do ideas give life to your befuddled thinking.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Don Maser et al. (1979) reported that 178 vertebrates use logs in the Blue
Mountains 14 amphibians and reptiles, 115 birds, and 49 mammals; they
tabulated use by log decay classes for each species. Logs are considered
important in early successional stages as well as in old- growth forests.
The persistence of large logs has special importance in providing wildlife
with habitat continuity over long periods and through major disturbances
(Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others, 1981). Are all of these as
worthless as you claim maggots to be and just better if considered dead?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.

On Jun 13, 2:27�pm, "Don Staples" wrote:
"beccabunga" wrote in message

...





'Zootal[_3_ Wrote:
;797955']I have a large old apple tree in my back yard. I'm guessing
it's ~100 years
old based on the neighborhood and the number of growth rings on a
smaller
tree near it that I had to cut down a few years ago. Several years ago,

someone butchered it - they cut all of the main branches back to about
15
feet from the trunk. Their reason - they didn't like how it sprawled
all
over. I don't know how badly this shocked the tree. I've been gently
pruning
it every year, trying to remove the vertical suckers and open up the
crown,
with a fairly good rate of sucess. This year is it loaded with hundreds
of
apples. So, anyhow, my questions

1) I noticed this hole on one of the branches. The opening is a bit
more
then in inch in diameter, and you can see wood shavings that have
fallen out
of the hole. What would make a hole like this in a tree? I can't see
anything in the hole, and don't know how deep it goes - I don't really
want
to stick my fingers in it :-)

http://tinyurl.com/3qv8b5
http://tinyurl.com/4m7vg4

It appears to have bored into dead wood, and by location and size I would
suspect carpenter bee. �They are readily viewable "hanging" around their
bores. �If the hole hooks through the center of the limb, I would say
definitely carpenter bee.

Definitely not a carpenter bee hole. Carpenter bees make much smaller
and neater entrance holes, perfectly round, about a 1/2" diameter,
just large enough to admit the bee.... deeper inside they excavate
galleries and chambers.

Woodpeckers don't make holes like that either, they need a much larger
diameter to make a deep hole... woodpeckers nest in vertical wood and
much higher.

That hole looks like it was made by some other insect, probably some
sort of large beetle... looks more like an exit hole, the insect
pupated and chewed it's way out. Insect eggs were laid on the
surface, upon hatching the "worm" chewed a tiny diameter hole deep
into the wood where it created a chamber, now after pupating it made a
much larger and messier hole for its escape.

M-W

pu�pa
noun
: an intermediate usually quiescent stage of a metamorphic insect (as
a bee, moth, or beetle) that occurs between the larva and the imago,
is usually enclosed in a cocoon or protective covering, and undergoes
internal changes by which larval structures are replaced by those
typical of the imago

Definitely not a carpenter bee hole. Carpenter bees make much smaller
and neater entrance holes, perfectly round, about a 1/2" diameter,
just large enough to admit the bee.... deeper inside they excavate
galleries and chambers.

Woodpeckers don't make holes like that either, they need a much larger
diameter to make a deep hole... woodpeckers nest in vertical wood and
much higher.

That hole looks like it was made by some other insect, probably some
sort of large beetle... looks more like an exit hole, the insect
pupated and chewed it's way out. Insect eggs were laid on the
surface, upon hatching the "worm" chewed a tiny diameter hole deep
into the wood where it created a chamber, now after pupating it made a
much larger and messier hole for its escape.


That is one HUGE insect! Well, it certainly made a larger and messier hole

"Sheldon" wrote in message
...
On Jun 13, 2:27?pm, "Don Staples" wrote:
"beccabunga" wrote in message

That hole looks like it was made by some other insect, probably some
sort of large beetle... looks more like an exit hole, the insect
pupated and chewed it's way out. Insect eggs were laid on the
surface, upon hatching the "worm" chewed a tiny diameter hole deep
into the wood where it created a chamber, now after pupating it made a
much larger and messier hole for its escape.

Its awesome to see that inside the wood as the organism grows so does the
hole. I have seen that in dissections.

Are you sure its not a old pruning cut?

John

the branch is dead. a woodpecker is drilling in maybe for a nest? google for more
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~iany/p...cker_holes.jpg

you can cut the branch. But I stopped attacks (little woodpecker holes) on an old
apple tree by using a brush to get rid of lose bark that hides insects. I scrubbed
the whole trunk and main branches. then I used thinned white latex to paint them.
all attacks stopped. within 3 years you really couldnt tell I had painted the tree
at all.

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:21:38 -0700, "Zootal" wrote:
1) I noticed this hole on one of the branches. The opening is a bit more
then in inch in diameter, and you can see wood shavings that have fallen out
of the hole. What would make a hole like this in a tree? I can't see
anything in the hole, and don't know how deep it goes - I don't really want
to stick my fingers in it :-)

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2788.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2789.JPG

2) See how the bark is peeling? The top of the branch is dried and
splitting. Is this branch dying, and should I take any action at this time,
like cut it off or try to save it? The other branches do not exhibit this
behavior.

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2794.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2790.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2792.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2008/...s/DSCF2791.JPG