no doubt some buggers, especially you charlie, are going to laugh at this.
Uncharitable huas.

Friday was racking off night for the cider. I started 10.30pm, not realising
how long it would take, finished after 1 am.

Groan, what a bloody job that was. Cleaning & sterilising everything, bad
enough.

5 x 5 litre carbouys from the first cider pressing. 1 x 23 litre plastic
brewing barrell from the second cider pressing. around 47-48 L all up.
7 x 5 litre carbouys (inlcuding the 5 with cider brewing in them), 2 x 3
litre carbouys and 3 x 2 litre old sherry flagons. About 47 L capacity.

Trying to figure what brew to syphon in to which carbouy/flagon was
interesting. Because I had several experiements with apple juice & brewing
techniques I wanted to try and keep each seperate through to tasting time. I
sort of got it ok. Easy part that.

Syphoning. Not my strong point. ABout 2 litres ended up on the laundry floor
I reckon before I had it sorted. Place stunk like a brewery. Floor got
mopped out twice.

Worse still, mouth fulls of just fermented cider. Easy you say, spit out.
Yup, I learnt that after I had swallowed about 12 mouthfuls. Gees it tasted
crap.

Next morning I woke up feeling a little seedy. Not hung over, just a slight
headache from drinking something bad.

The 23 L brewing barrell batch tastes not the best, it has a slight sulphur
taste to it. I sterilised with sodium metabisulphate. Instructions said not
to rinse as it is harmless to the brew in the concentrations used. I
understand that the sulphur taste should clear in time anyway.

The 5 x 5l brews each tatsed slightly different. The two that I sulphited
and used cultured yeast taste similar to the 23L batch. The best stuff is
where I didn't sulphite and used either wild yeast or a mixture of wild &
cultured yeast. They had a cleaner taste and a little more appley. The
sulphited brews taste, at this point, kind of like the shitey commercial
ciders we get over here. Shitey and fake. Shitey tasting commercial ciders,
with a shitey taste.

Leave to sit for at least 3 or more months I reckon & then bottle. Leave for
at least another 3 months and maybe try one or two, leave longer if taste
requires.

rob

Charlie wrote in :

I racked mine to 12 oz bottles, and after siphoning to six
bottles, with the resulting mess, I changed course. I
sterilized several 1/2 and one gallon juice jugs and siphoned to
them and then filled the bottles with a funnel from the juice
jugs. Still made a bit of a mess....that last hlaf-inch fills
*fast*.

get a racking cane! seriously, it's a wonderful invention. on second
thought, get two. we broke a few when we first started bottling, but
once you get one you won't ever bother with syphoning again.

I left the bottles in their boxes, thinking that I
could assembly line cap them and be good to go. Hell no, the
capper wouldn't fully scrunch the caps, so I had to take them
all out, cap, and put em' back....wasted steps.

BTDT. we do an assembly line. my 8 year old does the capping (we go
over again after, because he hasn't quite got the proper strength for
the hand capper)

lee now fermenting Maple ale from extract. will be brewing an all
grain Maple this week

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:47:25 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:

no doubt some buggers, especially you charlie, are going to laugh at this.
Uncharitable huas.

Yup, I'm laughing....because my experience was quite similar...


Friday was racking off night for the cider. I started 10.30pm, not
realising
how long it would take, finished after 1 am.

Yeah, I also waited til late at night when everything was settled down
and the kitchec was cleared out for the day. Effing mess to clean up
again!

Groan, what a bloody job that was. Cleaning & sterilising everything, bad
enough.

Yeah, seemed like it should be snap job, but took foreffingever, as I
was using 12 oz. bottles.

5 x 5 litre carbouys from the first cider pressing. 1 x 23 litre plastic
brewing barrell from the second cider pressing. around 47-48 L all up.
7 x 5 litre carbouys (inlcuding the 5 with cider brewing in them), 2 x 3
litre carbouys and 3 x 2 litre old sherry flagons. About 47 L capacity.

Trying to figure what brew to syphon in to which carbouy/flagon was
interesting. Because I had several experiements with apple juice & brewing
techniques I wanted to try and keep each seperate through to tasting time.
I
sort of got it ok. Easy part that.

Syphoning. Not my strong point. ABout 2 litres ended up on the laundry
floor
I reckon before I had it sorted. Place stunk like a brewery. Floor got
mopped out twice.

Worse still, mouth fulls of just fermented cider. Easy you say, spit out.
Yup, I learnt that after I had swallowed about 12 mouthfuls. Gees it
tasted
crap.

Next morning I woke up feeling a little seedy. Not hung over, just a
slight
headache from drinking something bad.

The 23 L brewing barrell batch tastes not the best, it has a slight
sulphur
taste to it. I sterilised with sodium metabisulphate. Instructions said
not
to rinse as it is harmless to the brew in the concentrations used. I
understand that the sulphur taste should clear in time anyway.

The 5 x 5l brews each tatsed slightly different. The two that I sulphited
and used cultured yeast taste similar to the 23L batch. The best stuff is
where I didn't sulphite and used either wild yeast or a mixture of wild &
cultured yeast. They had a cleaner taste and a little more appley. The
sulphited brews taste, at this point, kind of like the shitey commercial
ciders we get over here. Shitey and fake. Shitey tasting commercial
ciders,
with a shitey taste.

Leave to sit for at least 3 or more months I reckon & then bottle. Leave
for
at least another 3 months and maybe try one or two, leave longer if taste
requires.

Man, you've a lot of time and work invested in yours....hope you wind
up with better than vinegar. ;-)


rob

I used storebought cider and two types of yeast. One batch was
fermented with Montrachet and the other with Pasteur Champagne. They
taste different and we prefer the Montrachet, not quite as dry as that
using the champagne yeast. The Montrachet batch has a better apple
flavor, IMO. To the five gallons of Montrachet cider, I added a pound
of organic cane sugar. Didn't have my hydrometer yet, so no idea
where it started or where it has ended.

We've eight different varieties of yeast and are going to start making
one gallon batches.

I racked mine to 12 oz bottles, and after siphoning to six bottles,
with the resulting mess, I changed course. I sterilized several 1/2
and one gallon juice jugs and siphoned to them and then filled the
bottles with a funnel from the juice jugs. Still made a bit of a
mess....that last hlaf-inch fills *fast*. I left the bottles in their
boxes, thinking that I could assembly line cap them and be good to go.
Hell no, the capper wouldn't fully scrunch the caps, so I had to take
them all out, cap, and put em' back....wasted steps.

I added some fresh juice to 12 bottles to see what will happen with a
secondary fermentation and carbonation.

I effing quit bottling after two cases and put three jugs in the
fridgie to age there, as an experiment. I left it in primary for six
weeks and skipped secondary, as fermentation was done and it had
cleared. The jugs in the fridge are showing very little
sedimentation. I tasted a glass a few days ago and it was pretty
damned good. The bottles are gonna sit for several months.

Son sent me this link and it is chockablock full of recipes and ideas.
It has a recipe for, amongst a million others, coffee wine...that
shoudl be a good way to start the morning! ;-)

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp#menubar

Charlie

Hopefully not vinegar Charlie. If it is, there will be a garage sale come
spring of various brewing apparatus. We have all heard the stories from
cider drinkers, had a few and didn't feel ****ed, until it was time to get
up and leave and then it hit. Bad hang over the next day. Just syphoning the
shite made me queasy the next morning. Mate came round saturday & was
interested in the cider. He had a small tasting from each carboy. I hoped
he'd feel like I did after syphoning, he didn't. Obviously, with that
process, it was one mouthful for the floor and one mouthful for me.

rob

"enigma" wrote in message
...
Charlie wrote in :

I racked mine to 12 oz bottles, and after siphoning to six
bottles, with the resulting mess, I changed course. I
sterilized several 1/2 and one gallon juice jugs and siphoned to
them and then filled the bottles with a funnel from the juice
jugs. Still made a bit of a mess....that last hlaf-inch fills
*fast*.

get a racking cane! seriously, it's a wonderful invention. on second
thought, get two. we broke a few when we first started bottling, but
once you get one you won't ever bother with syphoning again.

yes, things you learn after doing it wrong first time around. The guy in the
home brew shop said nah, you don't need a pump syphon. Just give it a good
suck and then bung in the carbouy when the fluid starts. PMSL. He didn't
mention the box of asprin the next day.

Anyhow, there may not be a second time Lee, depending on the results in 6
months.

rob

Charlie wrote in :

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:33:21 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:


get a racking cane! seriously, it's a wonderful invention. on
second thought, get two. we broke a few when we first started
bottling, but once you get one you won't ever bother with
syphoning again.

Thanks, that looks like a good idea. One other question....do
you use a valve on the fill end of your siphon line? Pinching
the tube between bottles is a bit....messy!

yes, our racking cane has a valve. still, i line up the bottles to
be filled on a rag rug. there's always drips, no matter what. the
rag rug soaks up more than a towel & lies flatter.

I remember your advice to someone a while back about getting
more than one hydrometer, which I did. After getting them, I
see how they can break easily.

of course, & they're *expensive*. haven't broken one lately here
though.

Last year you gave me the address for your supplier. I lost it
when my machine crapped out last fall and son has been ordering
for me from Northern Brewers, but I seem to remember your guys
looked good.

hmm. was it Mt. Washington Homebrew Supply?
http://www.brewbyyou.com/
lee

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:47:25 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:

no doubt some buggers, especially you charlie, are going to laugh at this.
Uncharitable huas.

Yup, I'm laughing....because my experience was quite similar...


Friday was racking off night for the cider. I started 10.30pm, not
realising
how long it would take, finished after 1 am.

Yeah, I also waited til late at night when everything was settled down
and the kitchec was cleared out for the day. Effing mess to clean up
again!

Groan, what a bloody job that was. Cleaning & sterilising everything, bad
enough.

Yeah, seemed like it should be snap job, but took foreffingever, as I
was using 12 oz. bottles.

5 x 5 litre carbouys from the first cider pressing. 1 x 23 litre plastic
brewing barrell from the second cider pressing. around 47-48 L all up.
7 x 5 litre carbouys (inlcuding the 5 with cider brewing in them), 2 x 3
litre carbouys and 3 x 2 litre old sherry flagons. About 47 L capacity.

Trying to figure what brew to syphon in to which carbouy/flagon was
interesting. Because I had several experiements with apple juice & brewing
techniques I wanted to try and keep each seperate through to tasting time.
I
sort of got it ok. Easy part that.

Syphoning. Not my strong point. ABout 2 litres ended up on the laundry
floor
I reckon before I had it sorted. Place stunk like a brewery. Floor got
mopped out twice.

Worse still, mouth fulls of just fermented cider. Easy you say, spit out.
Yup, I learnt that after I had swallowed about 12 mouthfuls. Gees it
tasted
crap.

Next morning I woke up feeling a little seedy. Not hung over, just a
slight
headache from drinking something bad.

The 23 L brewing barrell batch tastes not the best, it has a slight
sulphur
taste to it. I sterilised with sodium metabisulphate. Instructions said
not
to rinse as it is harmless to the brew in the concentrations used. I
understand that the sulphur taste should clear in time anyway.

The 5 x 5l brews each tatsed slightly different. The two that I sulphited
and used cultured yeast taste similar to the 23L batch. The best stuff is
where I didn't sulphite and used either wild yeast or a mixture of wild &
cultured yeast. They had a cleaner taste and a little more appley. The
sulphited brews taste, at this point, kind of like the shitey commercial
ciders we get over here. Shitey and fake. Shitey tasting commercial
ciders,
with a shitey taste.

Leave to sit for at least 3 or more months I reckon & then bottle. Leave
for
at least another 3 months and maybe try one or two, leave longer if taste
requires.

Man, you've a lot of time and work invested in yours....hope you wind
up with better than vinegar. ;-)


rob

I used storebought cider and two types of yeast. One batch was
fermented with Montrachet and the other with Pasteur Champagne. They
taste different and we prefer the Montrachet, not quite as dry as that
using the champagne yeast. The Montrachet batch has a better apple
flavor, IMO. To the five gallons of Montrachet cider, I added a pound
of organic cane sugar. Didn't have my hydrometer yet, so no idea
where it started or where it has ended.

We've eight different varieties of yeast and are going to start making
one gallon batches.

I racked mine to 12 oz bottles, and after siphoning to six bottles,
with the resulting mess, I changed course. I sterilized several 1/2
and one gallon juice jugs and siphoned to them and then filled the
bottles with a funnel from the juice jugs. Still made a bit of a
mess....that last hlaf-inch fills *fast*. I left the bottles in their
boxes, thinking that I could assembly line cap them and be good to go.
Hell no, the capper wouldn't fully scrunch the caps, so I had to take
them all out, cap, and put em' back....wasted steps.

I added some fresh juice to 12 bottles to see what will happen with a
secondary fermentation and carbonation.

I effing quit bottling after two cases and put three jugs in the
fridgie to age there, as an experiment. I left it in primary for six
weeks and skipped secondary, as fermentation was done and it had
cleared. The jugs in the fridge are showing very little
sedimentation. I tasted a glass a few days ago and it was pretty
damned good. The bottles are gonna sit for several months.

Son sent me this link and it is chockablock full of recipes and ideas.
It has a recipe for, amongst a million others, coffee wine...that
shoudl be a good way to start the morning! ;-)

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp#menubar

Charlie

Hopefully not vinegar Charlie. If it is, there will be a garage sale come
spring of various brewing apparatus. We have all heard the stories from
cider drinkers, had a few and didn't feel ****ed, until it was time to get
up and leave and then it hit. Bad hang over the next day. Just syphoning the
shite made me queasy the next morning. Mate came round saturday & was
interested in the cider. He had a small tasting from each carboy. I hoped
he'd feel like I did after syphoning, he didn't. Obviously, with that
process, it was one mouthful for the floor and one mouthful for me.

rob
Transferring with a syphon is like a graduate degree in hydraulics.

Too much SO2 will give you a nasty headache too.

I presume that you are using a clear polyethylene hose so that you can
see where the fluid is. Prime from the top of the carboy/demi-jon and
once you have a syphon, place suction end near the bottom of container.
You may want to make a racking wand from pvc, that is closed at the
bottom but has intake on the side, so that intake is lateral and not
sucking up the lees.

Hopefully you can purge receptacles with CO2, or better yet argon, or at
least nitrogen before filling. Only use CO2 when receptacles will be
full or nearly full. CO2 dissolves into aqueous solutions and will draw
a vacuum. I've had sealed 5 gal. (19 L) bottles implode on me while
making wine.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:33:21 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:


get a racking cane! seriously, it's a wonderful invention. on second
thought, get two. we broke a few when we first started bottling, but
once you get one you won't ever bother with syphoning again.



Thanks, that looks like a good idea. One other question....do you use
a valve on the fill end of your siphon line? Pinching the tube
between bottles is a bit....messy!
Fermentation supply shop, should have a filling cane as well. It has a
spring loaded cylinder on the bottom that opens when pressed against the
bottom of the bottle and closes when lifted up. When the bottle is
completely full, removing the cane will leave a bit of ullage in the
bottle which will allow for thermal expansion and contraction without
the bottle leaking.

I remember your advice to someone a while back about getting more than
one hydrometer, which I did. After getting them, I see how they can
break easily.

Last year you gave me the address for your supplier. I lost it when
my machine crapped out last fall and son has been ordering for me from
Northern Brewers, but I seem to remember your guys looked good.

Thanks
Charlie
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:06:57 -0700, Billy
wrote:

Transferring with a syphon is like a graduate degree in hydraulics.

Amen. Whooda thunk it, until ya tries it! (Shoulda remembered those
mouthsful of petrol, eh Rob? ;-P )

Too much SO2 will give you a nasty headache too.

Is SO2 production dependant upon the strain of yeast, to significant
degrees?
Three sulfur compounds are associated with wine making. Hydrogen SULFIDE
and diethyl SULFIDE "MAY" be produced during fermentation. The former
smells like rotten eggs and the latter, like skunks. Montrachet yeast is
known for its' tendency to produce sulfides. Sulfides can be removed
throgh a process call "blue fining" with copper sulate.

The third compound is SULFITES (SO2) which are added as a preservative
and to deactivate enzymes that can discolor wine. SO2 is not
bactericidal but rather bacteria-static. They jam-up bacteria and yeast
as long as it is present. Wines are typically bottled with 30 - 40
parts per million (ppm) free (unbound) SO2. The free SO2 will be
eventually bound by components of the wine, but after 18 months there
are no more viable micro-organisms left in the wine. SO2 these days is
usually added as disolving metabisulfite (K+ or Na+) in water before
adding it to the wine. In olden days, it was made by burning sulfur. SO2
is heavier than air and rests on the bottom of a barrel and the burning
removes oxygen from the barrel. I once made a Riesling (the third wine I
ever made) with 100 ppm FSO2. It gave a blinding headache for the first
year.
My pastuer champagne cider had no sulfurous odor, and a
slower rate of fermentation, but the batch fermented with Montrachet
smelled like rhino farts. After a week of really heavy fermentation
(my airlock was farting once/sec) I gave the carboy a good shaking to
incorporate some 02 (seemed like a good idea) and it began to settle
down and smell a bit more pleasant and appley.


I presume that you are using a clear polyethylene hose so that you can
see where the fluid is. Prime from the top of the carboy/demi-jon and
once you have a syphon, place suction end near the bottom of container.
You may want to make a racking wand from pvc, that is closed at the
bottom but has intake on the side, so that intake is lateral and not
sucking up the lees.

Hopefully you can purge receptacles with CO2, or better yet argon, or at
least nitrogen before filling. Only use CO2 when receptacles will be
full or nearly full. CO2 dissolves into aqueous solutions and will draw
a vacuum. I've had sealed 5 gal. (19 L) bottles implode on me while
making wine.

Thanks for this advice.

To keep this on a garden note, wonder what turnip wine tastes like?
Nooooooooooooo. There is a place in hell for people who ask questions
like that.

Charlie
Today's phrase
ALOHA OY:
Love; greetirgs; farewell; from such a pain you should never know
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

Bill wrote in
:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tidewatermuse/134222791/

i think the dolphin on the right is much nicer looking...

we were in FL at the end of February (won't do *that* again! live oak
pollen & i do not get along well) & saw lots of dolphins and
manatees.
also had an interesting conversation with one of the workers at
Sunken Gardens about snapping turtles. Sunken Gardens has a common
snapper that has been there for 50 years. the original owners found
him in the Swanee River, but his DNA is that of a Mississippi River
snapper. apparently, since snappers are such homebodies, they can
tell by the DNA exactly which part of which river/pond a snapper
comes from, at least in the South. i wonder if DNA could tell me
where my little snapping turtle belongs. i've had him almost 6 years
& he's getting a bit large for his container (he's the size of my
hand now). if DNA matters, he should go home (upstate NY). otherwise,
if he does outgrow my abilty to house him, i'll be looking for a
nature center that needs a people friendly snapper for educational
use. he's too used to people to release.
lee

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Bill wrote in
:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tidewatermuse/134222791/

i think the dolphin on the right is much nicer looking...

Laughing till it hurts in a good way.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA