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Old 13-06-2009, 08:25 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. Any ideas?
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Old 13-06-2009, 10:05 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...


"VSAvatar" wrote in message
...
I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. Any ideas?


Partial shade is a big part of the problem. Also soil type and nutrients
available will have a large effect, as is adequate water. It's probably
still small enough to easily move it to a better location.


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Old 15-06-2009, 11:43 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

I kind of had a feeling it was something to that effect. The tree was
planted more for my Dad's benefit than mine. I wanted a cherry
blossom tree with the hope that cherries wouldn't grow on it due to
the partial shade issue but that we would still get the flowers each
year, but my Dad overruled me because he wanted a walnut or an oak
tree. Unfortunately the parcel of land we're on is not that large.
The place I planted it is actually the best place I can find in the
yard. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens with it at
this point. I've never seen a bonsai walnut tree before, so maybe
there's a first time for everything. When I get my own house I'm
going to make sure I have a large enough plot of land to grow the
trees I want, as to me they are a defining part of the landscape.

On Jun 13, 4:05*pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"VSAvatar" wrote in message

...

I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. *While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. *I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. *It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. *Any ideas?


Partial shade is a big part of the problem. *Also soil type and nutrients
available will have a large effect, as is adequate water. *It's probably
still small enough to easily move it to a better location.


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Old 16-06-2009, 01:27 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

"brooklyn1" wrote:
"VSAvatar" wrote in message

I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. *While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. *I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. *It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. *Any ideas?


Partial shade is a big part of the problem. *Also soil type and nutrients
available will have a large effect, as is adequate water. *It's probably
still small enough to easily move it to a better location.


The maples are a big part of the problem. Not much of anything
including grass grows under maples. They have shallow roots and take
all the water besides having dense shade. I would dig a trench down
about a foot deep around the walnut out several feet to cut any roots
that are coming into the area of the walnut. I would also open up the
shade by pruning the maple tree(s).

We have black walnuts growing in our yard that squirrels plant. They
seem to be 3 foot tall before we see them to pull them out. If growing
in a suitable location, they should grow fairly quickly. I cut one down
yesterday that was over 40' tall and it was about 30 years old.

I have seen green water bags called treegators that people place around
the base of new trees to keep them watered during the summer. They come
in different sizes. That would be a good idea.
--
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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6
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Old 16-06-2009, 01:45 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...


"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote:
"VSAvatar" wrote in message

I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. Any ideas?


Partial shade is a big part of the problem. Also soil type and nutrients
available will have a large effect, as is adequate water. It's probably
still small enough to easily move it to a better location.


The maples are a big part of the problem. Not much of anything
including grass grows under maples.


You've got it back asswards; not much grows under walnut, they poison the
soil.

The OP already indicated that his yard is rather small so any discussion
about his growing walnut is rather moot... walnut trees grow huge... his
choices are to grow a smaller tree or get a larger yard.

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/treesel...fm?PlantID=217






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Old 16-06-2009, 07:17 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

In article ,
"brooklyn1" wrote:

"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote:
"VSAvatar" wrote in message

I planted a black walnut from a bare root sapling about 3 years ago
and it only seems to grow about 3-4 inches per year instead of the
1'-1.5' I hear it's supposed to grow. While I don't have a problem
with it taking 100 years to reach full height, I'm more concerned that
it will simply stop growing at age 20 and I'll have an 8 foot walnut
bonsai tree. I assume part of the problem is that the tree is only in
partial sun rather than full sun because of some maple trees not too
far away, but I don't know if that's all that can account for it. It
appears rather healthy except for the lack of growth. Any ideas?

Partial shade is a big part of the problem. Also soil type and nutrients
available will have a large effect, as is adequate water. It's probably
still small enough to easily move it to a better location.


The maples are a big part of the problem. Not much of anything
including grass grows under maples.


You've got it back asswards; not much grows under walnut, they poison the
soil.

The OP already indicated that his yard is rather small so any discussion
about his growing walnut is rather moot... walnut trees grow huge... his
choices are to grow a smaller tree or get a larger yard.

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/treesel...fm?PlantID=217


Lots of things won't grow under Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.) and
Butternut (Juglans cinerea L.). They produce a substance known as
juglone (5-hydroxy-alphanapthaquinone) which is toxic to many plants
including: tomato, potato, blackberry, blueberry, azalea, mountain
laurel, rhododendron, red pine and apple. Some things that grow under
black walnut a

Tolerant grasses

Tall fescue and Kentucky bluegrass grow well near black walnut except
during drought conditions when soil moisture is low. When moisture is
adequate these grasses may grow better under walnut trees than in other
parts of the lawn, possibly because the soil may be more basic. Soil
under black walnuts tends to be alkaline, with the pH often 0 .7 points
higher than beyond the roots, thus influencing the growth of many
different plants.

Tolerant trees and shrubs

* arborvitae, American
* ash, white
* barberry
* beech, American
* birch, black; 'Heritage' river
* boxelder
* buckeye, Ohio
* catalpa
* cherry, black
* crabapple
* daphne
* dogwood, flowering
* elderberry
* elm, American
* forsythia
* fringetree
* goldenraintree
* globeflower
* gum, black
* hawthorn
* hemlock, Canadian
* hibiscus
* hickory
* holly, American
* honeylocust
* honeysuckle, amur; tatarian
* hydrangea
* lilac
* locust, black
* maple, red; sugar; black; Japanese
* ninebark
* oak, white; red; scarlet
* pawpaw
* pear, callery
* pine, Virginia
* privet
* red cedar, eastern
* redbud, eastern
* sassafrass
* serviceberry
* silverbell, Carolina
* spruce, Norway
* sumac
* sweetgum
* sycamore
* tulip tree
* viburnums (some species)
* witchhazel

Tolerant vines, ground covers and flowers

* anemone
* aster
* astilbe
* bee balm
* begonia
* bittersweet
* calendula
* clematis (virginsbower)
* coral bells
* creeper, Virginia
* daffodil
* daisy, shasta
* daylily
* evening primrose
* fern
* geraniums, hardy
* goldenrod
* grape, wild
* hollyhock
* hosta
* hyacinth, grape; oriental
* iris, siberian
* ironweed
* jack-in-the-pulpit
* lamb's ear
* liriope
* lobelia
* may apple
* morning glory
* mullein
* phlox
* primrose
* raspberry, black
* rose, wild
* rudbeckia
* scilla
* sedum
* speedwell
* spiderwort
* St. John's wort
* sunflower
* trillium
* tulip
* violet
* wisteria
* yarrow

However, Norway Maple is on the invasive species list because virtually
nothing but moss grows under them. The Japanese maples are entirely
different and would be great in a small yard.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://rhodyman.net/rahome.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6
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Old 16-06-2009, 07:24 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

Stephen Henning wrote in
news
The maples are a big part of the problem. Not much of anything
including grass grows under maples. They have shallow roots and
take all the water besides having dense shade. I would dig a
trench down about a foot deep around the walnut out several feet
to cut any roots that are coming into the area of the walnut. I
would also open up the shade by pruning the maple tree(s).


that depends on the type of maple. if they are Norway maples (an
invasive weed tree), then you are correct. those do have shallow
roots & dense shade. red, silver, & sugar maples are not nearly as
dense. i have black walnuts growing in with sugar maples, & there
are no growth issues due to excessive shade or lack of water. i
also have all types of grasses, ferns & understory shrubs growing
in my sugar bush...

We have black walnuts growing in our yard that squirrels plant.
They seem to be 3 foot tall before we see them to pull them out.
If growing in a suitable location, they should grow fairly
quickly. I cut one down yesterday that was over 40' tall and it
was about 30 years old.


did you sell it for lumber?

I have seen green water bags called treegators that people place
around the base of new trees to keep them watered during the
summer. They come in different sizes. That would be a good
idea.


i agree, for a couple years until it gets established.
lee

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Old 16-06-2009, 07:33 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

"brooklyn1" wrote in
:

You've got it back asswards; not much grows under walnut, they
poison the soil.


actually, native trees & shrubs tend not to have any problems
growing under the dripline or in the root zone of black walnuts. the
non-native plantings many people put in for landscaping are stunted
or killed by the juglone.
for example, there was an apple tree that started dying when the
largest black walnut in my yard started growing over it, so i just
cut it down. apples are non-native (with the exception of a couple
crabapple species). there is a native dogwood growing direct under
the walnut & about 2' away from the trunk, that is thriving.
unfortunately, the grass grows just fine there too...

The OP already indicated that his yard is rather small so any
discussion about his growing walnut is rather moot... walnut
trees grow huge... his choices are to grow a smaller tree or get
a larger yard.


that's a silly statement. you can grow several walnuts in a 50'x50'
back yard. you just won't be able to grow non-native understory
plantings too.
lee
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Old 17-06-2009, 05:41 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

In article ,
enigma wrote:

We have black walnuts growing in our yard that squirrels plant.
They seem to be 3 foot tall before we see them to pull them out.
If growing in a suitable location, they should grow fairly
quickly. I cut one down yesterday that was over 40' tall and it
was about 30 years old.


did you sell it for lumber?



No, not yet, interested?

I have a basement full of black walnut lumber. Wood stores like the
high prices of walnut and aren't interested in buying it cheaper. Their
markup is less then. I know, I tried to sell them some. No interest.
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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6
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Old 17-06-2009, 02:36 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

Stephen Henning wrote in
news
No, not yet, interested?


maybe. my black walnut needs another 10 years or so before it's
ready.

I have a basement full of black walnut lumber. Wood stores like
the high prices of walnut and aren't interested in buying it
cheaper. Their markup is less then. I know, I tried to sell
them some. No interest.


yeah, i sell to a couple different local lumber yards, but i mostly
am selling pine, ash, cherry & maple. i have several really nice
veneer quality maples coming along, carefully marked so they don't
get tapped for syrup & ruin them.
how do you dry lumber so it doesn't check? i have some bits around
i'd like to dry to use for bowls & utensils, but i haven't got the
drying thing figured out...
lee



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Old 17-06-2009, 07:15 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

enigma wrote:
Stephen Henning wrote in

No, not yet, interested?


maybe. my black walnut needs another 10 years or so before it's
ready.

I have a basement full of black walnut lumber. Wood stores like
the high prices of walnut and aren't interested in buying it
cheaper. Their markup is less then. I know, I tried to sell
them some. No interest.


yeah, i sell to a couple different local lumber yards, but i mostly
am selling pine, ash, cherry & maple. i have several really nice
veneer quality maples coming along, carefully marked so they don't
get tapped for syrup & ruin them.
how do you dry lumber so it doesn't check? i have some bits around
i'd like to dry to use for bowls & utensils, but i haven't got the
drying thing figured out...
lee


I dried cherry in my barn. The walnut was stacked under the overhang of
a barn when I got it. I put it in my basement. Warning, finish the
surface of walnut on a thickness plane and joiner before drying. When
in dries, it gets very hard and tends to chip when you work it.

--
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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA -
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Old 18-06-2009, 08:37 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Black Walnut Growth Rate Issues...

In article ,
Stephen Henning wrote:

enigma wrote:
Stephen Henning wrote in

No, not yet, interested?


maybe. my black walnut needs another 10 years or so before it's
ready.

I have a basement full of black walnut lumber. Wood stores like
the high prices of walnut and aren't interested in buying it
cheaper. Their markup is less then. I know, I tried to sell
them some. No interest.


yeah, i sell to a couple different local lumber yards, but i mostly
am selling pine, ash, cherry & maple. i have several really nice
veneer quality maples coming along, carefully marked so they don't
get tapped for syrup & ruin them.
how do you dry lumber so it doesn't check? i have some bits around
i'd like to dry to use for bowls & utensils, but i haven't got the
drying thing figured out...
lee


I dried cherry in my barn. The walnut was stacked under the overhang of
a barn when I got it. I put it in my basement. Warning, finish the
surface of walnut on a thickness plane and joiner before drying. When
in dries, it gets very hard and tends to chip when you work it.


PS: mine was always cut into boards while green and then dried. I have
seen where it is best to rough cut bowls while the wood is still green
to assure more uniform drying and less checking.

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Old 09-02-2011, 05:03 PM
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Default

I see the green water bag placed around known as tree gators new tree base and let them in the summer watering. Them in different sizes. It would be a good idea.
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