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Old 30-12-2009, 11:09 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

Wildbilly wrote:
In article , jeff
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article , jeff
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane
barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?
I don't think propane will be a good value. When I ran the numbers
here, electric was cheaper than propane. Bear in mind that electric
heaters are 100% efficient, and propane will not be.

I've got a small "greenhouse" 8' * 8' here that I have been
experimenting with.

My thoughts so far have been to minimize heat loss and to maximize
thermal storage so that night temps don't fall as far. I've had a few
hard freezes and no damage, so far, to my tropicals with no supplemental
heat. I'm thinking of adding some insulation.

You may also think about heat lamps, a little easier to put the heat
where you need it, and less sensitive to drafts as you are heating the
air only indirectly. Hot air goes out with the draft.

Jeff

Steve


Hmmm ...

Do plants need Oxygen as well as CO2?

The root growth for new plants... I believe needs Oxygen more than CO2.
If one puts a propane barbecue heater inside the greenhouse this may
be bad for the plants because the heat would use up the Oxygen.


I don't think many greenhouses are so well sealed that the O2 inside
was much less than that outside.

If I
went with a propane heater it would be a camper/garage style heater in
which the heater is outside and blows the heat inside the greenhouse OR
has an exhaust vent to the outside. Electric mats under the plants are
probably the best way to go. Electric is also nice for the over head
watering systems. Electric can be a problem if the greenhouse is not
near a power source. So therefore... propane.

Perhaps.

A 20lB tank has 360,000 (if burned at 100% efficiency).
If the tank is $20 then at most 18,000 BTU/$

Electric at 10 cents kWh is 32,400 BTU/$

You'd want to buy propane in quantity to make it affordable. Of
course, a propane heater can kick out a lot more heat. But you also
don't have the control and options that you have with electric.


But he is worried the power will got out, like it does every year, and
he'll have to chip the ice off his tropicals.


I missed that, that pretty much settles it.

Do we know anything else about his greenhouse?

Had lunch in mine today. 40F outside, 70F inside, until the sky
clouded over!


Jeff



I think we don't know enough about the OPs requirements yet.

YMMV.

Jeff
Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

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Old 31-12-2009, 12:23 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article
,
Wildbilly wrote:

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve


Sounding a little testy Steve. Cabin fever setting in already?


I wondering about that testiness as well

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Old 31-12-2009, 01:21 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers
of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve


Sounding a little testy Steve. Cabin fever setting in already?


stupid sig, blogsites and websites snipped for kindness

Nah. Just don't like people who have more to say about the person than the
topic.

Kinda like you.

plink!


Yep. Definitely cabin fever, poor *******;O) Hang on, Steve. Blue skies
will return, you weren't made to be nutso. In the meantime, try not to
break anything, and don't try to bite the cat's head off.

Uh, last thing. Try not to think about a large white bear. It would
probably be enough to put you over the edge.

Come on daylight, and Happy New Year.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
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Old 31-12-2009, 03:13 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article
,
Wildbilly wrote:

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers
of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve

Sounding a little testy Steve. Cabin fever setting in already?


stupid sig, blogsites and websites snipped for kindness

Nah. Just don't like people who have more to say about the person than the
topic.

Kinda like you.

plink!


Yep. Definitely cabin fever, poor *******;O) Hang on, Steve. Blue skies
will return, you weren't made to be nutso. In the meantime, try not to
break anything, and don't try to bite the cat's head off.

Uh, last thing. Try not to think about a large white bear. It would
probably be enough to put you over the edge.

Come on daylight, and Happy New Year.


I stated what I did, that ticked you off, not what I said about someone
else. There are no criticisms from me about cross posting.

Steve -- what did I say "more about the person than the topic"?
I am curious? What did I say about anyone before your attack on me?
I know the answer --- nothing! Until now, Are you Bi-polar Steve?

Billy, that is how I see the New Year, the days are now getting longer.

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:31 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:48:05 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

Steve



What does "best" mean? I tend to think energy effeciency for a
greenhouse, using sunlight and compost to heat the space. Have you
ever seen hot steam coming off a compost pile in the middle of winter?


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Old 03-01-2010, 07:41 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

Phisherman wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:48:05 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

Steve



What does "best" mean? I tend to think energy effeciency for a
greenhouse, using sunlight and compost to heat the space.



Depending on your needs, I think you will be hard pressed to heat
only with solar or steaming compost.

Solar requires thermal mass and added insulation.

I've got a string of nights here in the 20's, so I'll see. I've been
adding both thermal mass and insulation. I do have a heat lamp on a
timer... It's my first winter with the "solar cabana", so much remains
to be done.

With that said day time temps have been a delight inside with outside
temps in the the 30's.

No objection to any form of heating, but insulation is often overlooked.

Jeff


Have you
ever seen hot steam coming off a compost pile in the middle of winter?

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:05 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

On Dec 28 2009, 10:42*pm, Kay Lancaster wrote:
Bench heating, aka root zone heating.http://preview.tinyurl.com/yz7qnq5ht...rl.com/yjpwdfy

which are the long, fractured URLs below:

http://www.rngr.net/Publications/fnn...rsery-notes-2/
2007-winter-forest-nursery-notes/root-zone-heating-can-save-energy-by-
reducing-needs/file

http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/Notebo...ng_Underbench_...
ing_Systems_by_Bartok.pdf

http://www.umass.edu/umext/floricult...reenhouse_mana
gement/jb_root_zone_heat.htm


I've done similar with 3-4 gallon container plants with homemade
heating jackets, simple 1/4" plywood boxes that house the
container and a heat source. A single 7.5 watt light bulb on a
dimmer is all that I need to keep a pot at an optimal 75 - 80
degrees F even if room temperature drops into the 50s. Plants
given such a cozy set of overshoes thrive, even at 60F air
temperature.

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Old 21-01-2010, 04:41 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

yes, plants need oxygen all night long this is when they make sugar.
In the long run it is better to stop air movement from outside in. that is greater
heat loss than conduction thru plastic or glass. The other problem with burning over
electric is the product of combustion is CO2 AND H2O, there can be a humidity build
up that leads to mold. running both propane heater AND dehumidifier is more costly
than electric. Ingrid

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:01:33 -0500, "Dan L." wrote:
Do plants need Oxygen as well as CO2?

Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan
on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago
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Old 16-05-2011, 09:38 PM
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Our bounded plantsman acclimated hot water. Seemed connected and humidity friendly. He grew just about aggregate and valved off and on as required. Mr Duncan was a administrator in the Navy in WW2. Married a German war helpmate and had a baby acreage maybe 20 acres. I'd ask for a doz pulled plants and get over 20.
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Old 16-05-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvirojonns View Post
Our bounded plantsman acclimated hot water. Seemed connected and humidity friendly. He grew just about aggregate and valved off and on as required. Mr Duncan was a administrator in the Navy in WW2. Married a German war helpmate and had a baby acreage maybe 20 acres. I'd ask for a doz pulled plants and get over 20.
Personally I think insulation is as important ! I have the large 'bubble' insulation inside my greenhouse and a propagator with 40ft of soil warming cables and even last winter, the temp never even got to freezing !
Lannerman.
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