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Old 28-12-2009, 09:48 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

Steve



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Old 28-12-2009, 10:43 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

Steve


Our local plantsman used hot water. Seemed constant and humidity
friendly. He grew just about everything and valved off and on as
required. Mr Duncan was a officer in the Navy in WW2. Married a German
war bride and had a small farm maybe 20 acres. I'd ask for a doz pulled
plants and get over 20. Get asked in for a bit to eat and a shot too.

Whew I miss them!


http://www.thomasnet.com/products/bo...ng-6112809-1.h
tml

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM deals with Sugars
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Old 28-12-2009, 11:12 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

"Steve BS" wrote:

What is the best way to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

What, with all your hot air... LOL
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Old 28-12-2009, 11:42 PM
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Location: S. E. England
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B[_4_] View Post
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

Steve
Steve,

Take it from me and my experience, don't use anything other than electric fan heaters for heating your greenhouse.

All the best
Gardenjunkie
S. E. England
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Old 29-12-2009, 01:45 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

"Steve BS" wrote:

What is the best way to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

What, with all your hot air... LOL


Started your celebration a bit early, didn't you Shelly, or have you
just kept this "heat" goin' since Thanksgiving?
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm


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Old 29-12-2009, 04:42 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question


Bench heating, aka root zone heating.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yz7qnq5
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykt425d
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjpwdfy

which are the long, fractured URLs below:

http://www.rngr.net/Publications/fnn...rsery-notes-2/
2007-winter-forest-nursery-notes/root-zone-heating-can-save-energy-by-
reducing-needs/file


http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/Notebo...nderbench_Heat
ing_Systems_by_Bartok.pdf

http://www.umass.edu/umext/floricult...reenhouse_mana
gement/jb_root_zone_heat.htm
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Old 29-12-2009, 06:30 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

Bench heating, aka root zone heating.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yz7qnq5
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykt425d
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjpwdfy

which are the long, fractured URLs below:

http://www.rngr.net/Publications/fnn...rsery-notes-2/
2007-winter-forest-nursery-notes/root-zone-heating-can-save-energy-by-
reducing-needs/file


http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/Notebo...nderbench_Heat
ing_Systems_by_Bartok.pdf

http://www.umass.edu/umext/floricult...reenhouse_mana
gement/jb_root_zone_heat.htm


Sorry, I haven't looked at the links above, you don't get better than
Kay Lancaster, but let me just say that if the flames on this propane
heater come to a blue tip and not just a billowing cloud of flame, there
is no chance, that I can see, that CO would be a problem.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
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Old 30-12-2009, 12:24 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

Steve B wrote:
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?



I don't think propane will be a good value. When I ran the numbers
here, electric was cheaper than propane. Bear in mind that electric
heaters are 100% efficient, and propane will not be.

I've got a small "greenhouse" 8' * 8' here that I have been
experimenting with.

My thoughts so far have been to minimize heat loss and to maximize
thermal storage so that night temps don't fall as far. I've had a few
hard freezes and no damage, so far, to my tropicals with no supplemental
heat. I'm thinking of adding some insulation.

You may also think about heat lamps, a little easier to put the heat
where you need it, and less sensitive to drafts as you are heating the
air only indirectly. Hot air goes out with the draft.

Jeff


Steve


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Old 30-12-2009, 02:01 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article , jeff
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?



I don't think propane will be a good value. When I ran the numbers
here, electric was cheaper than propane. Bear in mind that electric
heaters are 100% efficient, and propane will not be.

I've got a small "greenhouse" 8' * 8' here that I have been
experimenting with.

My thoughts so far have been to minimize heat loss and to maximize
thermal storage so that night temps don't fall as far. I've had a few
hard freezes and no damage, so far, to my tropicals with no supplemental
heat. I'm thinking of adding some insulation.

You may also think about heat lamps, a little easier to put the heat
where you need it, and less sensitive to drafts as you are heating the
air only indirectly. Hot air goes out with the draft.

Jeff


Steve



Hmmm ...

Do plants need Oxygen as well as CO2?

The root growth for new plants... I believe needs Oxygen more than CO2.
If one puts a propane barbecue heater inside the greenhouse this may
be bad for the plants because the heat would use up the Oxygen. If I
went with a propane heater it would be a camper/garage style heater in
which the heater is outside and blows the heat inside the greenhouse OR
has an exhaust vent to the outside. Electric mats under the plants are
probably the best way to go. Electric is also nice for the over head
watering systems. Electric can be a problem if the greenhouse is not
near a power source. So therefore... propane.

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Old 30-12-2009, 04:07 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

Dan L. wrote:
In article , jeff
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?


I don't think propane will be a good value. When I ran the numbers
here, electric was cheaper than propane. Bear in mind that electric
heaters are 100% efficient, and propane will not be.

I've got a small "greenhouse" 8' * 8' here that I have been
experimenting with.

My thoughts so far have been to minimize heat loss and to maximize
thermal storage so that night temps don't fall as far. I've had a few
hard freezes and no damage, so far, to my tropicals with no supplemental
heat. I'm thinking of adding some insulation.

You may also think about heat lamps, a little easier to put the heat
where you need it, and less sensitive to drafts as you are heating the
air only indirectly. Hot air goes out with the draft.

Jeff

Steve



Hmmm ...

Do plants need Oxygen as well as CO2?

The root growth for new plants... I believe needs Oxygen more than CO2.
If one puts a propane barbecue heater inside the greenhouse this may
be bad for the plants because the heat would use up the Oxygen.



I don't think many greenhouses are so well sealed that the O2 inside
was much less than that outside.

If I
went with a propane heater it would be a camper/garage style heater in
which the heater is outside and blows the heat inside the greenhouse OR
has an exhaust vent to the outside. Electric mats under the plants are
probably the best way to go. Electric is also nice for the over head
watering systems. Electric can be a problem if the greenhouse is not
near a power source. So therefore... propane.


Perhaps.

A 20lB tank has 360,000 (if burned at 100% efficiency).
If the tank is $20 then at most 18,000 BTU/$

Electric at 10 cents kWh is 32,400 BTU/$

You'd want to buy propane in quantity to make it affordable. Of
course, a propane heater can kick out a lot more heat. But you also
don't have the control and options that you have with electric.

I think we don't know enough about the OPs requirements yet.

YMMV.

Jeff

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan



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Old 30-12-2009, 02:37 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

jeff wrote:

You'd want to buy propane in quantity to make it affordable.


That's true, bulk propane costs about $2.50/gallon

Of course, a propane heater can kick out a lot more heat.


That's true. In most locals propane costs less than half of electric.

But you also don't have the control and options that you have with electric.


That's not true. There are many very sophisticated propane heaters
and most any propane space heater can be thermostatically controlled.
I heat my entire house with propane, I have a propane fired boiler, my
house heats with baseboard hot water, and the same system makes
domestic hot water. Many folks use propane fired forced air systems.
There is no reason that a propane system needs to be fired inside the
greenhouse either. A small propane fired hot water heater can easily
heat a greenhouse for cheap... baseboard hot water radiators would be
better for plants then blowing hot air. If one heats their house with
baseboard hot water and the house is in close proximity to the
greenhouse then the simplist least expensive method it to simply add a
zone for the greenhouse.


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Old 30-12-2009, 05:59 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question


"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve


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Old 30-12-2009, 07:43 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 166
Default Greenhouse heating question

In article , jeff
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article , jeff
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
In another newsgroup, there's a discussion about heating a greenhouse.
Electric heaters were mentioned. Also kerosene, but comments were made
about fumes and stickiness. Someone recommended a plain propane
barbecue.
It was stated that the CO2 would be good for the plants. I was wondering
about the CO produced, and what the levels would be.

What is the best/worst ways to do supplemental heat in a greenhouse?

I don't think propane will be a good value. When I ran the numbers
here, electric was cheaper than propane. Bear in mind that electric
heaters are 100% efficient, and propane will not be.

I've got a small "greenhouse" 8' * 8' here that I have been
experimenting with.

My thoughts so far have been to minimize heat loss and to maximize
thermal storage so that night temps don't fall as far. I've had a few
hard freezes and no damage, so far, to my tropicals with no supplemental
heat. I'm thinking of adding some insulation.

You may also think about heat lamps, a little easier to put the heat
where you need it, and less sensitive to drafts as you are heating the
air only indirectly. Hot air goes out with the draft.

Jeff

Steve



Hmmm ...

Do plants need Oxygen as well as CO2?

The root growth for new plants... I believe needs Oxygen more than CO2.
If one puts a propane barbecue heater inside the greenhouse this may
be bad for the plants because the heat would use up the Oxygen.



I don't think many greenhouses are so well sealed that the O2 inside
was much less than that outside.

If I
went with a propane heater it would be a camper/garage style heater in
which the heater is outside and blows the heat inside the greenhouse OR
has an exhaust vent to the outside. Electric mats under the plants are
probably the best way to go. Electric is also nice for the over head
watering systems. Electric can be a problem if the greenhouse is not
near a power source. So therefore... propane.


Perhaps.

A 20lB tank has 360,000 (if burned at 100% efficiency).
If the tank is $20 then at most 18,000 BTU/$

Electric at 10 cents kWh is 32,400 BTU/$

You'd want to buy propane in quantity to make it affordable. Of
course, a propane heater can kick out a lot more heat. But you also
don't have the control and options that you have with electric.


But he is worried the power will got out, like it does every year, and
he'll have to chip the ice off his tropicals.


I think we don't know enough about the OPs requirements yet.

YMMV.

Jeff

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
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Old 30-12-2009, 07:44 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve


Sounding a little testy Steve. Cabin fever setting in already?
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
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Old 30-12-2009, 10:52 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Greenhouse heating question


"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote

Cross posted on edible as well.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan: I specifically wrote separate articles to the two groups to placate
people who were anal about cross posting. This message was not cross
posted. It was done correctly to avoid people who have filters that
eliminate anything posted to more than one group, and also reach readers
of
both groups, where they might not see it if they only read one group.

Hope this helps you comprehend the situation, but I really doubt it.

Are you moderator of this group? Or just want to be?

Steve


Sounding a little testy Steve. Cabin fever setting in already?


stupid sig, blogsites and websites snipped for kindness

Nah. Just don't like people who have more to say about the person than the
topic.

Kinda like you.

plink!




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