I've got a small area of soil right next to our house that I'm having
trouble with. It is roughly 3' wide and maybe 14 or 15' long, right up
against the west side of the house, between the house and the sidewalk,
near the front door.

I planted several things there this Spring, and everything has died.
I dug down in there, and found that the soil is staying very, very
wet. Also, though the good topsoil goes down about 3", the underlying
material is simply gravel, and that is wet too. There is no water or
anything visible there, and no water actually rushes into a hole when I
dig, but it evidently stays the wettest spot I've ever tried to garden in.

Yesterday I realized why - the prevailing wind and weather here comes
from the SW, and when it rains against the side of the house, the water
just runs down the side of the house and down into this little area. I
mulched the area, which probably holds the moisture in even more. I
don't think there is any good drainage under the sidewalk, so the water
just sort of sits there. I could probably grow rice there without too
much trouble!

So, I have two choices, really. I could start thinking of growing
only plants that don't mind having a lot of water just a few inches
below the surface.


Or, I could dig everything out down to about 9", leave two or three
trenches, and mound up some light, organic soil, sand and peat moss in
between the trenches, and plant there. I thought about trying to get
the area drained better, but I don't see any easy way to put in drainage
tile or anything like that, without busting out the walkway. That might
be a project to consider next year.


Anyone ever have a situation like this? How did you handle it?

In article ,
Ohioguy wrote:

I've got a small area of soil right next to our house that I'm having
trouble with. It is roughly 3' wide and maybe 14 or 15' long, right up
against the west side of the house, between the house and the sidewalk,
near the front door.

I planted several things there this Spring, and everything has died.
I dug down in there, and found that the soil is staying very, very
wet. Also, though the good topsoil goes down about 3", the underlying
material is simply gravel, and that is wet too. There is no water or
anything visible there, and no water actually rushes into a hole when I
dig, but it evidently stays the wettest spot I've ever tried to garden in.

Yesterday I realized why - the prevailing wind and weather here comes
from the SW, and when it rains against the side of the house, the water
just runs down the side of the house and down into this little area. I
mulched the area, which probably holds the moisture in even more. I
don't think there is any good drainage under the sidewalk, so the water
just sort of sits there. I could probably grow rice there without too
much trouble!

So, I have two choices, really. I could start thinking of growing
only plants that don't mind having a lot of water just a few inches
below the surface.


Or, I could dig everything out down to about 9", leave two or three
trenches, and mound up some light, organic soil, sand and peat moss in
between the trenches, and plant there. I thought about trying to get
the area drained better, but I don't see any easy way to put in drainage
tile or anything like that, without busting out the walkway. That might
be a project to consider next year.


Anyone ever have a situation like this? How did you handle it?

We have what we call swells around here. Sort of like ground water that
travels in a certain direction and is usually be nigh. One runs into
my basement from the north and leaves our above brick work with a
permanent damp spot luckily outside. A remedy could be a french drain
.. I just learned to live with it. Weird as even in a drought that spot
is damp.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
http://ocg6.marine.usf.edu/~liu/Drif...atest_roms.htm

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:23:58 -0400, Ohioguy wrote:

I've got a small area of soil right next to our house that I'm having
trouble with. It is roughly 3' wide and maybe 14 or 15' long, right up
against the west side of the house, between the house and the sidewalk,
near the front door.

I planted several things there this Spring, and everything has died.
I dug down in there, and found that the soil is staying very, very
wet. Also, though the good topsoil goes down about 3", the underlying
material is simply gravel, and that is wet too. There is no water or
anything visible there, and no water actually rushes into a hole when I
dig, but it evidently stays the wettest spot I've ever tried to garden in.

Yesterday I realized why - the prevailing wind and weather here comes
from the SW, and when it rains against the side of the house, the water
just runs down the side of the house and down into this little area. I
mulched the area, which probably holds the moisture in even more. I
don't think there is any good drainage under the sidewalk, so the water
just sort of sits there. I could probably grow rice there without too
much trouble!

So, I have two choices, really. I could start thinking of growing
only plants that don't mind having a lot of water just a few inches
below the surface.


Or, I could dig everything out down to about 9", leave two or three
trenches, and mound up some light, organic soil, sand and peat moss in
between the trenches, and plant there. I thought about trying to get
the area drained better, but I don't see any easy way to put in drainage
tile or anything like that, without busting out the walkway. That might
be a project to consider next year.


Anyone ever have a situation like this? How did you handle it?

Maybe you need roof gutters, and/or need to unclog them.

So long as you don't have a basement and/or water is not coming in
then you are in pretty good shape. However three inches of soil over
gravel is not good for growing plants, that it's wet is much worse,
you need to dig down into the gravel to see why it's not draining,
probably clay... almost as if the builder back filled with gravel in
an attempt at remediation because the wet area was evident... be
thankful that water is not coming up into your house.

You can probably easily place perforated PVC pipe under the walk to
lead water away but still it needs somewhere to go that will perc.
Most houses don't have very good plant growing conditions right up
against their foundations due to all sorts of debris buried when
backfilling... I don't recommend planting within three feet of the
foundation, especially if there's an overhang, then for most folks
that negates any watering benefit from rain... and often there are
building materials buried that poison the location for growing much of
anything.

In article ,
Ohioguy wrote:

I've got a small area of soil right next to our house that I'm having
trouble with. It is roughly 3' wide and maybe 14 or 15' long, right up
against the west side of the house, between the house and the sidewalk,
near the front door.

I planted several things there this Spring, and everything has died.
I dug down in there, and found that the soil is staying very, very
wet. Also, though the good topsoil goes down about 3", the underlying
material is simply gravel, and that is wet too. There is no water or
anything visible there, and no water actually rushes into a hole when I
dig, but it evidently stays the wettest spot I've ever tried to garden in.

Yesterday I realized why - the prevailing wind and weather here comes
from the SW, and when it rains against the side of the house, the water
just runs down the side of the house and down into this little area. I
mulched the area, which probably holds the moisture in even more. I
don't think there is any good drainage under the sidewalk, so the water
just sort of sits there. I could probably grow rice there without too
much trouble!

So, I have two choices, really. I could start thinking of growing
only plants that don't mind having a lot of water just a few inches
below the surface.


Or, I could dig everything out down to about 9", leave two or three
trenches, and mound up some light, organic soil, sand and peat moss in
between the trenches, and plant there. I thought about trying to get
the area drained better, but I don't see any easy way to put in drainage
tile or anything like that, without busting out the walkway. That might
be a project to consider next year.


Anyone ever have a situation like this? How did you handle it?

How about a 3" or 4" dia. hose to run the water out to where it won't be
a bother,
or
you could try raised beds, or simply an earthen mound 6" to 12" high,
circular or rectangular.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Ohioguy wrote:
....
Anyone ever have a situation like this? How did you handle
it?

do you have a basement or crawlspace?

or

does it get plenty of sun otherwise?

if so it sounds perfect for strawberries.

any of the mosses would probably love it
there if the soil is acidic.

hmm,

i'd dig it out (take off the dirt over the
gravel) and turn it into a raised platform
for rock garden plantings, but as to what
i would plant would depend upon the
light. all of this depends upon so much
what the rest of your yard/house looks
like it's pretty tough to recommend
anything specific.


songbird

Ohioguy writes:

I've got a small area of soil right next to our house that I'm
having trouble with. It is roughly 3' wide and maybe 14 or 15' long,
right up against the west side of the house, between the house and the
sidewalk, near the front door.

I planted several things there this Spring, and everything has
died. I dug down in there, and found that the soil is staying very,
very wet. Also, though the good topsoil goes down about 3", the
underlying material is simply gravel, and that is wet too. There is
no water or anything visible there, and no water actually rushes into
a hole when I dig, but it evidently stays the wettest spot I've ever
tried to garden in.

Dig a little deeper.
Top soil and then gravel sounds like drainage.

There should be top soil, 6 to 12 inches of gravel and then
a drain pipe.

On the west side of the house I'd be thinking ground cover like
pachysandra or one of my favorite plants, hosta.

Maybe you need roof gutters, and/or need to unclog them.

Just had new roof gutters and downspouts installed as part of
purchasing this house. I can attest that they are working fine, because
the water coming out at the south end of the house blasted my mulch out
into the yard several feet.

So long as you don't have a basement and/or water is not coming in

I have a basement, but it has only been affected by water once in the
last 4 months, and that was a trickle that went away quickly after a
very heavy downpour.

Part of the issue is that this place was built with virtually no roof
overhang. The older homes I've lived in had probably 2' of roof
overhang, but this one was built in 1979, and the roof only sticks out
about 2" more than the side of the house. Thus, if the wind is blowing
at all, a lot of rain is hitting the west side of the house and running
down into this area.

I haven't completely figured out what we are going to do in this area
long term. My wife would like something more along the lines of an old
fashioned porchf. Right now there is just a small raised slab by the
front door. Mostly I was hoping to have some nice yellow pear tomatoes
the same year we moved in, but I may have to settle for a fall garden
with greens.

what the rest of your yard/house looks
like it's pretty tough to recommend
anything specific.

It gets full sun from about Noon on, so right now it is getting 7
hours or more of direct sun a day. Soil in the area is a bit alkaline,
and would probably remain that way due to the amount of concrete right
next to the planting area.

Yes, I have a basement, which has never flooded, but got a trickle of
water once in the corner.

I have also noticed that whenever I water my trees and plants, water
is dripping from the faucet, which is about 30 years old. I'm starting
to think that is a contributing factor.

There should be top soil, 6 to 12 inches of gravel and then
a drain pipe.

I just can't figure out how to install any sort of tile without
busting up the sidewalk. I'd really rather not do that if I don't have to.


On the west side of the house I'd be thinking ground cover like
pachysandra or one of my favorite plants, hosta.

I don't mind it being ornamental, but I was hoping to offer visitors
the chance to grab a snack when they came to the front door. Plus, my
kids just LOVE tomatoes, which was why I planted the yellow pear
tomatoes. That's the kind my grandpa always plants.

In the end, I may try some water loving plants. I've never grown any
of them before, and it would be interesting. However, it would probably
be better for the house to make this situation go away.

Ohioguy wrote:
I just can't figure out how to install any sort of tile without
busting up the sidewalk.

Make a big hole outside of the sidewalk, and use a hose and some
suitable lengths of PVC drain pipe or similar to tunnel the pipe
under the sidewalk. The "Tunnels" episode of the "Building Big"
TV series on DVD demonstrates the technique in a family activity
segment. The episode may be borrowed from a local public library
or maybe from Netflix.

You might also rent a cement cutter and cut a tidy slice out of
the sidewalk.

Una

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:32:48 -0600 (MDT), (Una) wrote:

Ohioguy wrote:
I just can't figure out how to install any sort of tile without
busting up the sidewalk.

Make a big hole outside of the sidewalk, and use a hose and some
suitable lengths of PVC drain pipe or similar to tunnel the pipe
under the sidewalk. The "Tunnels" episode of the "Building Big"
TV series on DVD demonstrates the technique in a family activity
segment. The episode may be borrowed from a local public library
or maybe from Netflix.

You might also rent a cement cutter and cut a tidy slice out of
the sidewalk.


It's pretty easy to tunnel under a sidewalk with a pressure washer.

the area drained better, but I don't see any easy way to put in drainage
tile or anything like that, without busting out the walkway. That might
be a project to consider next year.

Just an FYI, if you don't mind getting dirty... you can dig under a sidewalk
fairly easily with water pressure. Dig a pit down on either side of the
sidewalk, at the depth you want the pipe to go through.

Turn the garden hose to high pressure and just start forcing the water to
erode a spot of soil under the sidewalk, advancing the hose as it digs through
the soil. Eventually, you'll break through on the other side and can
thread your pipe (or wire or cable) through.

There are specialized boring tools that the guys that lay underground cable
and the like use for getting under roads and driveways... but the hose
method works well for small distances, and it's nice and cheap.

In article , Ohioguy
wrote:

: ...

I am no expert but I think your focusing on the wrong thing. Water
pooling next to your house/basement walls is not a good thing for
reasons beyond gardening. In another post you mentioned that heavy
rains caused a temporary leak into the basement? These things do not
get better with time.

I would take care of the house/water issue first. Garden part should
come later. Temporarily, line up a few well drained pots/containers.

sorry to come in here, but i missed the original post.

i agree with 'newbie' on this one, and might add you need to do some
visual research when it rains to take note of where this water comes
from, also are you at the bottom of a slope where all water from the
above properties drains to.

as far asi am aware water can be the enemy of foundations as it seeps
through the cement i have been told it weakens the structure of the
cement, in worst case scenerio could cause reinforcing to rust and
swell causing the cement to crack.

also don't recommend having gardens or trees up against the
foundations, should be app' a 2 meter buffer zone between plantings
and the foudations. all toward stable moisture levels around the
foundations. also considers termites.

anyhow for now take a look at our french/agricultiral drain
presentation you may have to consider something like this?

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/tipson.htm

here is our story on our research:

start copy:

how we determined the placement of the ag' drain we were involved in
installing.

first up like i said i had done a couple or 3 or 4 years of
observation, this water came
travelled through our neighbours foundations and flooded our front
yard in times of heavy
rain and the water continued to flow through his foundations and
across his underhouse
storage garage area, so at the least inconvenient for him as it was
not dry storage then,
for some days week whatever after the rain event.

anyhow after a period and as any good neighbour might i began to sell
him on the idea of
an ag' drain, yes i will be bitterly honest here if he didn't do it
above his house we
were going to have to do it along the bottom side of his boundry in
his yard to benefit
us alone, there was no option to do anything in our yard. but it would
hardly be worth
our effort for some front yard flooding.

we got on well and he could see the issue with probable failure of
cement slab and cement
stumps. so i talked him through how i saw it.

he was near the bottom of this app' 6% slope. now at the top of the
slope was another
street that storm water went direct to the adjacent wetland, a couple
houses right at teh
very top app' 200 meters up and away. so that meant abut 5 houses
could not gravity run
their storm water to the street or storm water drain as they too were
below the slope.

so as our enquiries found, the builder developer was permitted to put
in a large rubble
drain down the inside of teh back property lines of these affected
house, this rubble
drain was fed into a gravel sump (huge hole filled with gravel to
allow the trapping of
certain water and let it permiate into the clay sub soil) yes all soil
was clay.

needless to say of course these sorts of systems provide a cheap
remedy and are council
apporved but have serious limitations, you see clay makes for an ideal
dam, farmers can't
have dams without clay soil, once clay saturates no more water will
flow into or through
it, why dams work so well. and later on at another suburb our next
door neighbour put in
a large car apron creating a catchment of which i indicated to him he
could not pass that
water down to us, so his builder put in such a drain system, they made
it obvious they
did not like ahving to do it, and yes in heavy or continued rain it
all flowed out the
top of the sump across our back boundry into other yards. it was like
a geisher.

the best most expensive treatment would have been to seek pemission to
put a pvc drain
through 2 yeards (these 2 yards efected from the overflow and it would
have saved another
2 from ever being affected) to the lower storm water drain, you can
imagine expensive hey
and ths overflow water was never going to affect him, out of sight out
of mind.

anyway this drain scenerio had same/similar issues, the builder could
have gotten
pemission to install a pvc drain down to the wetland then there would
be no problem for
any others, i look carefully now at topography before we buy.

so that was a major issue in my neighbours issue, some hidden ones we
found the digger
guy helped here also was a disused septic tank with the top smashed in
so they could fill
it with dirt but they didn't punch a hole through the bottom which
would have helped, the
tanks should have been removed but guess the owner then was not going
to fork out the
cash. this was the cause of why the water continued until the level
dropped in that tank.

the digger bloke pointed out that the old leach field pipes all had a
downhill flow back
toward the house, a bad plumber i would say, must have been issues
with the owners who
had it then? so we factored all that in as the job the ag' drain had
to control. the old
septic system actually had some uphill flow factor in it between the
tank and the leach
field pipes. legacy of house being built without owner supervision
there is a lesson to
be learnt there, with the home we built we were there each and every
day even then they
tried shot cuts.

we ran teh drain and connected it to a lower storm water pipe to
evacuate that water away
from his house, we use pvc in leiu of black flexable as the pvc can be
cleaned at anytime
using a plumbers eel. you can in fact make your own pvc ag' pipe by
buying normal pipe
then with a grinder cut slots down 2 sides.

anyhow all worked well in the above scenerio.

end copy.


snipped
--

Matthew 25:13 KJV
"Watch therefore, for ye know neither
the day nor the hour wherein the Son
of man cometh"

Mark 13:33 "Take ye heed, watch and pray:
for ye know not when the time is".

len

With peace and brightest of blessings,

"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/