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Old 02-08-2010, 05:53 PM posted to rec.gardens
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http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:35 PM posted to rec.gardens
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In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Myth: Add sand to loosen heavy, clay soil

If all you were going to do was add sand, the statement above would be
true, but garden soil is ideally, 30 - 40% silt, 30 - 40% sand, and 20 -
30% clay. This soil then needs 5 - 10% organic material.

I'm working what was originally heavy clay soil. I have added some sand
(maybe 10% of the top 12 inches) but by and large, I have found that
feeding the soil encourages the earthworms, and if you have earthworms,
you have garden soil.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


"Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones
Truth:
Misused pesticides can be harmful, regardless of whether they are
considered natural or synthetic.


Pyrethrum, for example, is made from chrysanthemums but is still toxic
to people and pets when handled improperly.

Whenever possible, it's best to select the least toxic control option
available because, even if not lethal, many of these pesticides can
cause serious health complications. Safe storage of these products can
help prevent any harmful accidents. Read and follow all label
directions, and remember that these products are tools, not miracle
workers or silver bullets. Pesticides cannot correct mistakes made in
plant selection, installation, or maintenance."
..............................
Being Picky

I've found pyrethrum to be an excellent insecticide. That said I've
noticed that Pyrethrum is usually dissolved in xylene and combined
with rotenone.

1) Xylene is a human carcinogen.

2) Rotenone has a ongoing study for human effects like Parkinson's
disease.

But just pyrethrum

http://www.greenislanddistributors.c...600Xclude_MSDS
..pdf

Says slight #1 on all counts

I use it in my house sparingly along with Oil of pennyroyal used as a
deterrent.

Aside how are you new trees faring?

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
globalvoicesonline.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY

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Old 02-08-2010, 09:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:40 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,085
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In article ,
Frank wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature


This is true as pointed out here
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0262253299997#

But I look at it just like I look at back ground radiation. We live
with the potential for cancers and added input adds to the genetic
chance of dealing with a bad interaction may increase. So I tend to go
lower exposure and hope my genes agree. Why poison when it is not a cure
just a response to nature practicing selecting breeding.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
globalvoicesonline.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY



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Old 02-08-2010, 09:54 PM posted to rec.gardens
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In article ,
Frank wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature



At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:18 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 386
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On 8/2/2010 3:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature



At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.


None of these are currently sold. A good chemist knows how to handle
chemicals
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:00 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 2,438
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In article ,
Frank wrote:

On 8/2/2010 3:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...arden-myths.as
px

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature



At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.


None of these are currently sold. A good chemist knows how to handle
chemicals


Do you even know a good chemist?

Frank, why do you continue to follow me around, makeing a fool of
yourself? If I needed a fool, you'd be the first person that I'd call,
Frank. OK?

The correct answer, Frank, is that none of these chemicals are
currently sold in the United States, but it doesn't really matter, does
it, because they're not going to go away anytime soon. Maybe that's why
they're called "Persistant Organic Pollutants" (POP), hmmmm, Frank? Or
are you going to be petulant now, and stomp your little foot, Frank?

There must be someone else you can bore, Frank.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:08 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 386
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On 8/2/2010 6:00 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 3:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...arden-myths.as
px

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature


At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.


None of these are currently sold. A good chemist knows how to handle
chemicals


Do you even know a good chemist?

Frank, why do you continue to follow me around, makeing a fool of
yourself? If I needed a fool, you'd be the first person that I'd call,
Frank. OK?

The correct answer, Frank, is that none of these chemicals are
currently sold in the United States, but it doesn't really matter, does
it, because they're not going to go away anytime soon. Maybe that's why
they're called "Persistant Organic Pollutants" (POP), hmmmm, Frank? Or
are you going to be petulant now, and stomp your little foot, Frank?

There must be someone else you can bore, Frank.


You love the attention. I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:10 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 3,036
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Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


"Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones
Truth:
Misused pesticides can be harmful, regardless of whether they are
considered natural or synthetic.


Pyrethrum, for example, is made from chrysanthemums but is still toxic
to people and pets when handled improperly.

Whenever possible, it's best to select the least toxic control option
available because, even if not lethal, many of these pesticides can
cause serious health complications. Safe storage of these products can
help prevent any harmful accidents. Read and follow all label
directions, and remember that these products are tools, not miracle
workers or silver bullets. Pesticides cannot correct mistakes made in
plant selection, installation, or maintenance."
.............................
Being Picky

I've found pyrethrum to be an excellent insecticide. That said I've
noticed that Pyrethrum is usually dissolved in xylene and combined
with rotenone.

1) Xylene is a human carcinogen.

2) Rotenone has a ongoing study for human effects like Parkinson's
disease.

But just pyrethrum

http://www.greenislanddistributors.c...600Xclude_MSDS
.pdf

Says slight #1 on all counts


One of the little laughs I get from some of my strict (devout?) organic
growing friends is that pyrethrums made in a lab are harmful but those
extracted from the flower are OK. This little bit of wisdom is enshrined in
some organic certification standards!

David



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Old 03-08-2010, 06:33 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 2,438
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In article ,
Frank wrote:

On 8/2/2010 6:00 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 3:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...g-garden-myths.
as
px

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the
first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM).
Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following
summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature


At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.

None of these are currently sold. A good chemist knows how to handle
chemicals


Do you even know a good chemist?

Frank, why do you continue to follow me around, makeing a fool of
yourself? If I needed a fool, you'd be the first person that I'd call,
Frank. OK?

The correct answer, Frank, is that none of these chemicals are
currently sold in the United States, but it doesn't really matter, does
it, because they're not going to go away anytime soon. Maybe that's why
they're called "Persistant Organic Pollutants" (POP), hmmmm, Frank? Or
are you going to be petulant now, and stomp your little foot, Frank?

There must be someone else you can bore, Frank.


You love the attention. I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word


Thank you, fool.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
  #12   Report Post  
Old 03-08-2010, 01:41 PM posted to rec.gardens
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jan 2009
Posts: 386
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On 8/3/2010 12:33 AM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 6:00 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 3:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/2/2010 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...g-garden-myths.
as
px

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the
first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM).
Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following
summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.

Excellent lecture years ago by Bruce Ames. He pointed out that major
defense mechanism of plants are toxins. I know you are afraid of man
made chemicals but it's hard to beat toxicity of those in nature


At least natural toxins degrade, not so POPs: aldrin, chlordane, DDT,
dieldrin, endrin, heptachlor, hexachlorobenzene, mirex, polychlorinated
biphenyls, polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated
dibenzofurans, toxaphene, or (PAHs) carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, and certain brominated flame-retardants, as well as some
organometallic compounds such as tributyltin (TBT).

The gift that keeps on giving. (Ger) das Gift ---- (Eng) Poison

Yes, they scare me, Frank, and if you had any sense at all, they would
scare you too.

None of these are currently sold. A good chemist knows how to handle
chemicals

Do you even know a good chemist?

Frank, why do you continue to follow me around, makeing a fool of
yourself? If I needed a fool, you'd be the first person that I'd call,
Frank. OK?

The correct answer, Frank, is that none of these chemicals are
currently sold in the United States, but it doesn't really matter, does
it, because they're not going to go away anytime soon. Maybe that's why
they're called "Persistant Organic Pollutants" (POP), hmmmm, Frank? Or
are you going to be petulant now, and stomp your little foot, Frank?

There must be someone else you can bore, Frank.


You love the attention. I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word


Thank you, fool.


Come one Billy. Let's see who looks sillie
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.



"Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones"

Yes, it's a simplistic statement. But the average consumer is pretty dumb,
and they fall for that comment. A friend of mine is having problems with
ants in the house. Two exterminators told her they use a product which "is
made from chrysanthemums". She liked that idea. It made her smile. Of
course, the distant relative of the product (a synthetic pyrethroid whose
name I don't have handy at the moment) originally came from flowers 40+
years ago. But not the actual product they sold her.

I didn't say a word to her. It's not worth the effort any more. Was this
stuff as dangerous as banned products we used to use 40 years ago? Probably
not. Is it safe? Nobody can know, and nobody will ever know.


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Old 03-08-2010, 07:18 PM posted to rec.gardens
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In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
brooklyn1 wrote:

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/...den-myths.aspx


I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.



"Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones"

Yes, it's a simplistic statement. But the average consumer is pretty dumb,
and they fall for that comment. A friend of mine is having problems with
ants in the house. Two exterminators told her they use a product which "is
made from chrysanthemums". She liked that idea. It made her smile. Of
course, the distant relative of the product (a synthetic pyrethroid whose
name I don't have handy at the moment) originally came from flowers 40+
years ago. But not the actual product they sold her.

I didn't say a word to her. It's not worth the effort any more. Was this
stuff as dangerous as banned products we used to use 40 years ago? Probably
not. Is it safe? Nobody can know, and nobody will ever know.


Good to see you back Joe. The reason I responded wasn't because the
statement was wrong (although I'd be surprised if anything organic were
as lethal as Sevin, but I've been surprised before), but because I
thought the focus was too narrow in scope, pesticides. Pesticides should
be the last line of defense in an organic garden, or an organic world. I
know when I first started gardening seriously, I was overwhelmed that
all the plants needed individualize care and that I couldn't just stick
'em in the ground and water them to get good yields. Then to discover
that there wasn't a "one size fits all" insecticide intimidated me more.
Lets face it, gardening is complicated, and as you you become a better
gardener, there are new challenges to be dealt with. IPM is one of those
challenges. It's important to figure out who are the good guys, and who
are the bad guys. I wish I knew what I did this year because have
ladybugs all over the place. 'Course it could just mean that I have
aphids that I haven't discovered yet ;O) Or one can plant angelica,
dill, coreopsis, cosmos, sunflowers, and/or dandelion, and attract green
lacewings to battle your aphids. If you have Japanese beetle, learn
about "milky spore" and encourage your neighbors to use it too.

Probably the easiest thing would be to check with your local extention
office or Master Gardeners to see if they don't have pictures of local
garden pests as well as their biological controls.

Other parts of "Gardening Myths" were fine. It was only a few years back
that I learned (or unlearned) that the a stump of a limb shouldn't be
painted over, or that B1 was totally bogus.

With Euell Gibbons in mind, I sallied forth yesterday into the woods in
search of blackberries. An hour and a half later, wheezing and gasping
for breath as I slowly came back up the hill, I proudly clutched a
pitcher of free (not counting the lost blood) blackberries, which
several hours later, as a cobbler, became dessert to our pesto dinner.
Gonna hafta go get me some more of that free food, before the harvest
shuts down my free time.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy[_10_] View Post
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Billy"
wrote in message
...
In article
,
brooklyn1
wrote:

9 Garden Myths Demystified - Fine Gardening Article

I'm sure any garden can find things to take exception to in this
article. Mostly the article makes errors of omission.

For example
Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones

I can't think of any organic pesticide that is as toxic as Sevin, but
the whole point of organic gardening is to avoid pesticides in the first
place, and that is done using Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Spraying
Milk Spore in the Fall is better than waiting until the following summer
and being tempted to use Sevin on Japanese beetles. Ladybugs will help
you control aphids with no sprays at all. Identify your problem first,
before treating it.



"Myth: Organic pesticides are less toxic than synthetic ones"

Yes, it's a simplistic statement. But the average consumer is pretty dumb,
and they fall for that comment. A friend of mine is having problems with
ants in the house. Two exterminators told her they use a product which "is
made from chrysanthemums". She liked that idea. It made her smile. Of
course, the distant relative of the product (a synthetic pyrethroid whose
name I don't have handy at the moment) originally came from flowers 40+
years ago. But not the actual product they sold her.

I didn't say a word to her. It's not worth the effort any more. Was this
stuff as dangerous as banned products we used to use 40 years ago? Probably
not. Is it safe? Nobody can know, and nobody will ever know.


Good to see you back Joe. The reason I responded wasn't because the
statement was wrong (although I'd be surprised if anything organic were
as lethal as Sevin, but I've been surprised before), but because I
thought the focus was too narrow in scope, pesticides. Pesticides should
be the last line of defense in an organic garden, or an organic world. I
know when I first started gardening seriously, I was overwhelmed that
all the plants needed individualize care and that I couldn't just stick
'em in the ground and water them to get good yields. Then to discover
that there wasn't a "one size fits all" insecticide intimidated me more.
Lets face it, gardening is complicated, and as you you become a better
gardener, there are new challenges to be dealt with. IPM is one of those
challenges. It's important to figure out who are the good guys, and who
are the bad guys. I wish I knew what I did this year because have
ladybugs all over the place. 'Course it could just mean that I have
aphids that I haven't discovered yet ;O) Or one can plant angelica,
dill, coreopsis, cosmos, sunflowers, and/or dandelion, and attract green
lacewings to battle your aphids. If you have Japanese beetle, learn
about "milky spore" and encourage your neighbors to use it too.

Probably the easiest thing would be to check with your local extention
office or Master Gardeners to see if they don't have pictures of local
garden pests as well as their biological controls.

Other parts of "Gardening Myths" were fine. It was only a few years back
that I learned (or unlearned) that the a stump of a limb shouldn't be
painted over, or that B1 was totally bogus.

With Euell Gibbons in mind, I sallied forth yesterday into the woods in
search of blackberries. An hour and a half later, wheezing and gasping
for breath as I slowly came back up the hill, I proudly clutched a
pitcher of free (not counting the lost blood) blackberries, which
several hours later, as a cobbler, became dessert to our pesto dinner.
Gonna hafta go get me some more of that free food, before the harvest
shuts down my free time.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
Maude Barlow: "The World Has Divided into Rich and Poor as at No Time in History"
Israel cracks down on dissent - middleeast - Al Jazeera English
Thanks for sharing!!, that's great!
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