swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in
recent years.
³The use of the word intelligence (with or without swarm) simply
humanizes (or animalizes, since they talk about swarms) the situation,²
says David Robinson or the University of Heidelberg in Germany. Such
³silly² terminology, in his words, ³reduces serious plant science to the
level of esoterics.²
However, he¹s not disputing the ability of plants to solve complicated
strategic problems. ³Of course,² he says, ³it¹s well known that roots
have Œcognitive¹ abilities.²"

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...n/Rooting_for_
swarm_intelligence_in_plants

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

"Always tell the truth and you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain.

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Bill who putters wrote:
"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists
in
recent years.
³The use of the word intelligence (with or without swarm) simply
humanizes (or animalizes, since they talk about swarms) the
situation,²
says David Robinson or the University of Heidelberg in Germany. Such
³silly² terminology, in his words, ³reduces serious plant science to
the
level of esoterics.²
However, he¹s not disputing the ability of plants to solve complicated

strategic problems. ³Of course,² he says, ³it¹s well known that roots
have Œcognitive¹ abilities.²"

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...n/Rooting_for_
swarm_intelligence_in_plants

Hmmm...

To have intelligence requires a brain in my book, not just a nervous
system. Starfish have a nervous system but no brain. A nervous system
just provides a stimulus reaction, like if it's too hot move away, move
towards or away from a light source.

Plants probably do have a nervous system, sunflowers turn toward the sun
and so on. I would not however call it intelligent. Creatures with
brains have thought, not just a stimulus reaction. Examples: like
survival techniques, remembers where the nest is, where can I find food
sources. In my book plants have no intelligence of any kind!

The field science is going down hill in this world.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in
recent years.
³The use of the word intelligence (with or without swarm) simply
humanizes (or animalizes, since they talk about swarms) the situation,²
says David Robinson or the University of Heidelberg in Germany. Such
³silly² terminology, in his words, ³reduces serious plant science to the
level of esoterics.²
However, he¹s not disputing the ability of plants to solve complicated
strategic problems. ³Of course,² he says, ³it¹s well known that roots
have Œcognitive¹ abilities.²"

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...n/Rooting_for_
swarm_intelligence_in_plants

Seems to me that "cognition" would be a more humanizing term to apply to
plants than the broader, imho, "intelligence". Silly semantics aside -
what I want to know is, are plants self-aware?

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

The Wikipedia article on "Swarm Intelligence":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_intelligence

shows exactly how devoid of intelligence the concept of
swarm intelligence is. The article talks about the swarm
intelligence of drops of water as a river forms a river bed.

As far as nerves, again the article is playing semantic games:

The idea that plants basically have nerves — a conclusion that grows out
of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant tissue
— has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in recent
years.

As most of us know, plants don't have a nervous system.

Electrical activity occurs in wires, water, rocks.

Nothing to see here.

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Amos Nomore wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in recent years.
³The use of the word intelligence (with or without swarm) simply
humanizes (or animalizes, since they talk about swarms) the
situation,² says David Robinson or the University of Heidelberg in
Germany. Such ³silly² terminology, in his words, ³reduces serious
plant science to the level of esoterics.²
However, he¹s not disputing the ability of plants to solve
complicated strategic problems. ³Of course,² he says, ³it¹s well
known that roots have Ocognitive¹ abilities.²"

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...n/Rooting_for_
swarm_intelligence_in_plants

Seems to me that "cognition" would be a more humanizing term to apply
to plants than the broader, imho, "intelligence". Silly semantics
aside - what I want to know is, are plants self-aware?

Some veges that post on usenet seem to be.

David

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves a conclusion that
grows out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity
in plant tissue has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Of course there is nothing asinine about using a private definition of
"intelligence" to muddy the waters further. By any common definition of the
word plants are not intelligent. Yes they react to their environment but so
do microorganisms and crystals. That is not intelligent.

I hadn't thought before today that you were not superior to plants but since
you are claiming it I am forced to accept that there might be something in
it. This might also explain how you can see the world from a plant's
perspective. How do you do that? Do you wave your stamen in the breeze
hoping a receptive female will be near enough for you to reproduce?

David

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves a conclusion that
grows out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity
in plant tissue has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Of course there is nothing asinine about using a private definition of
"intelligence" to muddy the waters further. By any common definition of the
word plants are not intelligent. Yes they react to their environment but so
do microorganisms and crystals. That is not intelligent.

I hadn't thought before today that you were not superior to plants but since
you are claiming it I am forced to accept that there might be something in
it. This might also explain how you can see the world from a plant's
perspective. How do you do that? Do you wave your stamen in the breeze
hoping a receptive female will be near enough for you to reproduce?

David


Seems life does what it does . Weird wonder full world.

.....................
Psychol Sci. 2010 Feb 1;21(2):276-83. Epub 2009 Dec 22.
Scent of a woman: men's testosterone responses to olfactory ovulation
cues.
Miller SL, Maner JK.
Department of Psychology, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
32306-4301, USA.
Abstract
Adaptationist models of human mating provide a useful framework for
identifying subtle, biologically based mechanisms influencing
cross-gender social interaction. In line with this framework, the
current studies examined the extent to which olfactory cues to female
ovulation--scents of women at the peak of their reproductive
fertility--influence endocrinological responses in men. Men in the
current studies smelled T-shirts worn by women near ovulation or far
from ovulation (Studies 1 and 2) or control T-shirts not worn by anyone
(Study 2). Men exposed to the scent of an ovulating woman subsequently
displayed higher levels of testosterone than did men exposed to the
scent of a nonovulating woman or a control scent. Hence, olfactory cues
signaling women's levels of reproductive fertility were associated with
specific endocrinological responses in men--responses that have been
linked to sexual behavior and the initiation of romantic courtship.
PMID: 20424057 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

"Always tell the truth and you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain.

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves a conclusion that
grows out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity
in plant tissue has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Of course there is nothing asinine about using a private definition of
"intelligence" to muddy the waters further. By any common definition of
the
word plants are not intelligent. Yes they react to their environment but
so
do microorganisms and crystals. That is not intelligent.

I hadn't thought before today that you were not superior to plants but
since
you are claiming it I am forced to accept that there might be something in
it. This might also explain how you can see the world from a plant's
perspective. How do you do that? Do you wave your stamen in the breeze
hoping a receptive female will be near enough for you to reproduce?

David


Seems life does what it does . Weird wonder full world.

....................
Psychol Sci. 2010 Feb 1;21(2):276-83. Epub 2009 Dec 22.
Scent of a woman: men's testosterone responses to olfactory ovulation
cues.
Miller SL, Maner JK.
Department of Psychology, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
32306-4301, USA.
Abstract
Adaptationist models of human mating provide a useful framework for
identifying subtle, biologically based mechanisms influencing
cross-gender social interaction. In line with this framework, the
current studies examined the extent to which olfactory cues to female
ovulation--scents of women at the peak of their reproductive
fertility--influence endocrinological responses in men. Men in the
current studies smelled T-shirts worn by women near ovulation or far
from ovulation (Studies 1 and 2) or control T-shirts not worn by anyone
(Study 2). Men exposed to the scent of an ovulating woman subsequently
displayed higher levels of testosterone than did men exposed to the
scent of a nonovulating woman or a control scent. Hence, olfactory cues
signaling women's levels of reproductive fertility were associated with
specific endocrinological responses in men--responses that have been
linked to sexual behavior and the initiation of romantic courtship.
PMID: 20424057 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Not sure what you're getting at, Bill. To the best of my knowledge, men
don't need to be "turned on". Many of us wish there was an "off" switch.
As far as I know, men are like giant dinosaurs with brains at either end
of their spinal column. The blood rushes from one to the other as the
occasion permits. T-shirts are just a complication. ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 writes:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective.

Actually it's not.

Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa...

The 2 have been co-existing a long time.
But probably animals need plants to survive.
But we were talking about intelligence, not survival.

plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence...

No they haven't.

reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence...

Plant's don't have a perspective.
Any more than they have intelligence.

only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Resorting to name calling so soon?
Where did you read that animals are superior
to plants? Did someone in this thread imply anything like
that?

I prefer to use words that have meaning.
The word intelligence has a meaning.
Plants get by just fine without intelligence.

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that
grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in
plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Maaaaybbee, plants do have the smarts in a way. Plants have me trained
to water and feed them on a regular basis. I groom the intelligent grass
that makes it attractive. The plants have also trained me to help them
to propagate... The plants do have a higher intelligence than humans...

OH NO! GAIA is the real GOD and I am now scared! Kneeling... Hands
together...
Oh lord GAIA, I pray to thee Vegetable Garden that nourishes my body...

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that
grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in
plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Maaaaybbee, plants do have the smarts in a way. Plants have me trained
to water and feed them on a regular basis. I groom the intelligent grass
that makes it attractive. The plants have also trained me to help them
to propagate... The plants do have a higher intelligence than humans...

OH NO! GAIA is the real GOD and I am now scared! Kneeling... Hands
together...
Oh lord GAIA, I pray to thee Vegetable Garden that nourishes my body...

Michael Pollan refers to this as a literary conceit.
http://michaelpollan.com/videos/michael-pollan-at-ted/
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that
grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in
plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna
but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Maaaaybbee, plants do have the smarts in a way. Plants have me
trained
to water and feed them on a regular basis. I groom the intelligent
grass
that makes it attractive. The plants have also trained me to help
them
to propagate... The plants do have a higher intelligence than
humans...

OH NO! GAIA is the real GOD and I am now scared! Kneeling... Hands
together...
Oh lord GAIA, I pray to thee Vegetable Garden that nourishes my
body...

Michael Pollan refers to this as a literary conceit.
http://michaelpollan.com/videos/michael-pollan-at-ted/

I could not read the link, do I need the TED application?
Is literary conceit the same as sarcasm?

My family members are very strong fundamentalist authoritative christian
types.
Violence is out of the question, therefore I alway resort to SARCASM
when it comes to religious, political and philosophical views. Big
argument again, my bother cannot speak without praising, blessing,
condemning others in the name of his God during family get togethers.
The rebellious little brother that I have become.

Sarcasm has been embedded in me for so long I don't think I could
change.
Becoming the hermit will be my saving grace (pun). Also one more reason
I like usenet. Seeking sanity in an insane world.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that
grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in
plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna
but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Maaaaybbee, plants do have the smarts in a way. Plants have me
trained
to water and feed them on a regular basis. I groom the intelligent
grass
that makes it attractive. The plants have also trained me to help
them
to propagate... The plants do have a higher intelligence than
humans...

OH NO! GAIA is the real GOD and I am now scared! Kneeling... Hands
together...
Oh lord GAIA, I pray to thee Vegetable Garden that nourishes my
body...

Michael Pollan refers to this as a literary conceit.
http://michaelpollan.com/videos/michael-pollan-at-ted/

I could not read the link, do I need the TED application?
Is literary conceit the same as sarcasm?
No.

My family members are very strong fundamentalist authoritative christian
types.
My condolences.
Violence is out of the question, therefore I alway resort to SARCASM
when it comes to religious, political and philosophical views. Big
argument again, my bother cannot speak without praising, blessing,
condemning others in the name of his God during family get togethers.
The rebellious little brother that I have become.
We all have our crosses.

Sarcasm has been embedded in me for so long I don't think I could
change.
Becoming the hermit will be my saving grace (pun). Also one more reason
I like usenet. Seeking sanity in an insane world.

Or, you may want to explore paranoia, or maybe just Relax! I'm betting
the latter. They really are after you. You're not paranoid.



Joyeux Noël
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug

swarm_intelligence_in_plants
 

In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:11:50 -0500, wrote:

Bill who putters writes:

"The idea that plants basically have nerves ‹ a conclusion that
grows
out of hard-to-interpret observations of electrical activity in
plant
tissue ‹ has ignited a thunderstorm of its own among plant
scientists in
recent years.

Article in question is a semantic game.

Here they are attempting to stretch the meaning of the phrase
"swarm intelligence".

Plants reacting to the environment is in no way intelligence as the
word is commonly understood.

That's a matter of perspective. Flora survives well without fauna
but
not vice versa... plants have obviously evolved a higher form of
intelligence... reproduction and photosynthesis from the perspective
of plants is the higher intelligence... only humans make asinine
superiority judgements.

Maaaaybbee, plants do have the smarts in a way. Plants have me
trained
to water and feed them on a regular basis. I groom the intelligent
grass
that makes it attractive. The plants have also trained me to help
them
to propagate... The plants do have a higher intelligence than
humans...

OH NO! GAIA is the real GOD and I am now scared! Kneeling... Hands
together...
Oh lord GAIA, I pray to thee Vegetable Garden that nourishes my
body...

Michael Pollan refers to this as a literary conceit.
http://michaelpollan.com/videos/michael-pollan-at-ted/

I could not read the link, do I need the TED application?
Is literary conceit the same as sarcasm?
No.

My family members are very strong fundamentalist authoritative christian
types.
My condolences.
Violence is out of the question, therefore I alway resort to SARCASM
when it comes to religious, political and philosophical views.

Resorting to SARCASM personifies EVIL!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

Perhaqps you should learn to use "facetious".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/facetious