On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:37:53 -0600, Mysterious Traveler wrote:

What are you an Idiot? With free speech you can say anything you want
but taking classified information and giving it to the world is illegal
and the criminals need to be punished. If people in the US military
could choose what rules they want to uphold or break then the security
of our country is in jeopardy. Terrorist depend on idiots like you to
aid them in their attacks against the US.

The US government and military are corrupt to the top. It is up to the
average citizen and of course the military grunts, to keep the top brass
in line.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:03:59 +0000, Nad R wrote:

Privacy is history. What makes the governments of the world think they
should have privacy when no law exist for the privacy concerns of it's
citizens. The so called theory of : The governments job to is protect
the people? Or is it to help government officials to hide from their
crimes.

I will support the governments privacy concerns when I can also legally
encode my own communications in which is next to impossible to listen in
on. I do not buy the argument "For the protection of its citizens". 9/11
communication interceptions never helped it's citizens.

As for the soldier, he did break the law in which he was hired for and
deserves his prison time. However, he should be treated humanely, what
ever that is. Is he a martyr, perhaps, the jury is still out.

I think it may be a crime to support illegal government activity.
Soldiers have a legal and moral right to blow a whistle.

"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:38:13 -0600, Mysterious Traveler wrote:
He is a hero. As is Bradley. They probably will not get a ticker tape
parade, because they are heroes for the people, not the machine.

So, a hacker steals your credit information, and provides it to his posse,
is he a hero as well? He benefits the people, not the machine, and your out
only a few bucks.

The fruitcake is a thief, he stole classified materials and provided them to
another fruitcake for publication. In violation of military and civil law.
I think he should be summarily executed, if not for the theft, then for
being stupid.

Go back to raising your roses.

In article yinc,
"D. Staples" wrote:

"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:38:13 -0600, Mysterious Traveler wrote:
He is a hero. As is Bradley. They probably will not get a ticker tape
parade, because they are heroes for the people, not the machine.

So, a hacker steals your credit information, and provides it to his posse,
is he a hero as well? He benefits the people, not the machine, and your out
only a few bucks.
The hypothetical hacker above would be a thief out for personal gain. We
don't know who took the information. We don't know why they took the
information. We don't know how Wikileaks came by its information. We do
that the government was given the chance to redact the released
material, and didn't. Now they complain. We do know where the N.Y.
Times, Le Monde in France, El Pais in Spain, The Guardian in Britain and
Der Spiegel in Germany got their information. You calling for their
heads also, Don?
How about the people reading the classified information? Kill them too,
because they know too much?
I do know that the murder of the Reuters journalists was sufficient for
me to applaud whoever exposed the American mode of total war without end.
And intercourse you too, while I'm at it, you Nazi.

The fruitcake is a thief,
The fruitcake is the guy that condemns without proof.
The fruitcake is the guy who prejudges.
The fruitcake is the guy who answers in English, when apparently he
can't read it.
The fruitcake is the guy who doesn't support American values of fair
play and honesty.
he stole classified materials and provided them to
another fruitcake for publication. In violation of military and civil law.
I think he should be summarily executed, if not for the theft, then for
being stupid.

Go back to raising your roses.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph
p

In article ,
jellybean stonerfish wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:03:59 +0000, Nad R wrote:

Privacy is history. What makes the governments of the world think they
should have privacy when no law exist for the privacy concerns of it's
citizens. The so called theory of : The governments job to is protect
the people? Or is it to help government officials to hide from their
crimes.

I will support the governments privacy concerns when I can also legally
encode my own communications in which is next to impossible to listen in
on. I do not buy the argument "For the protection of its citizens". 9/11
communication interceptions never helped it's citizens.

As for the soldier, he did break the law in which he was hired for and
deserves his prison time. However, he should be treated humanely, what
ever that is. Is he a martyr, perhaps, the jury is still out.

I think it may be a crime to support illegal government activity.
Soldiers have a legal and moral right to blow a whistle.

Do you support illegal government activity, Don? Do you support murder
and torture of people SUSPECTED to be criminals?

What would you do, if Pakistan killed 10 members of your family, to kill
one nationalist, excuse me, I mean militant? The money for the 9/11
killers did come from Pakistan after all.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph
p

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Don Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
Summary execution.

Why?

Is that the punishment for the charges he faces? If not, are just you
putting in an opinion about the punishment you think Manning should face?

On July 5, Bradley Manning was charged under the Uniform Code of
Military Justice for transferring classified data onto his personal
computer and communicating national defense information to an
unauthorized source between November 19, 2009 and May 27, 2010.

So, if found guilty of that charge, is the punishment "summary execution"?

If so, it seems rather extreme given the boring nature of the information
contained in the leaks to date. Anyone with half a brain and an interest in
politics and world events and access to a computer could have reached
simialr conclusions.

"Mysterious Traveler" wrote in message
...
On 01/02/2011 02:27 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jan 2, 10:48 am, "Don wrote:
Summary execution.

It seems nobody is noticing that Assange is not a U.S. Citizen, so
cannot be held to have committed treason against the U.S.

HB

He played a stupid game he should have known was unwinnable.
He should have known what he was doing was wrong.

What was he thinking?

Did he think he was going to be a hero and get ticker tape parades in his
honor?


Those comments are nonsensical given which organisations are publishing the
leaks.

"Mysterious Traveler" wrote in message
...
On 01/03/2011 12:34 AM, Billy wrote:
In lecomsupplyinc,
"D. wrote:

Aiding and abetting the enemy in time of war, summary execution.

There are many who think these wars, and maybe even 9/11 itself, was a
crock. So our speaking-out against the war, may be construed as aiding
the enemy as well.

Does free speech no longer exist in this country??

What are we becoming, Don?

What are you an Idiot?

Wel he isn't but I'm sure there are a lot around.

I've been wondering if the US military is run by a bunch of complete
incompetents.

I find it absolutley astounding that a 23 year old Private had access to so
much information that has nothing at all to do with the military and while
he was stationed in Iraq. Manning wasn't in Washinton in some snug office
job but was stationed in what is effectively a combat zone.

That is simply astounding and beyond common sense. Heads should roll but it
should be at very senior levels. Of course it'll be a silly young Private
who gets crucified and the real incompetents who should be held accountable
will get away with it.

With free speech you can say anything you want
but taking classified information and giving it to the world is illegal
and the criminals need to be punished. If people in the US military
could choose what rules they want to uphold or break then the security
of our country is in jeopardy.

Security is obviously in jeopardy if some Private in Iraq had access to so
much information.

Terrorist depend on idiots like you to
aid them in their attacks against the US.

That is an insulting and ignorant remark given US Constitution.

"Billy" wrote in message

The fruitcake is the guy who doesn't support American values of fair
play and honesty.

Yeah well........ I wonder why that comment makes me think about the US
invasion of Grenada with a population of 100K.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

I find it absolutley astounding that a 23 year old Private had access to so
much information that has nothing at all to do with the military and while
he was stationed in Iraq. Manning wasn't in Washinton in some snug office
job but was stationed in what is effectively a combat zone.

That is simply astounding and beyond common sense. Heads should roll but it
should be at very senior levels. Of course it'll be a silly young Private
who gets crucified and the real incompetents who should be held accountable
will get away with it.

Before 9/11 the intelligence agencies were divided and did not share
information. Information was splintered and few were allowed to see the
information collected.
After 9/11 a new agency was created called "Homeland Security". A vast new
agency that shared information from the different agencies like, NSA, CIA,
Military and the FBI. It was a knee jerk reaction and this gigantic agency
was throw together haphazardly. Some people had access to information that
should not have, like a young Private that may not have as much maturity as
an older person would have.

The military complex is a behemoth that is bankrupting the United States
just to help the international corporations to stay mega rich while the
citizens go broke.
People vote for the behemoth military out of fear and lies from our
politicians. Like most behemoth facilities they tend to get out of control
and run by local nut jobs.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

jellybean stonerfish wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:03:59 +0000, Nad R wrote:

Privacy is history. What makes the governments of the world think they
should have privacy when no law exist for the privacy concerns of it's
citizens. The so called theory of : The governments job to is protect
the people? Or is it to help government officials to hide from their
crimes.

I will support the governments privacy concerns when I can also legally
encode my own communications in which is next to impossible to listen in
on. I do not buy the argument "For the protection of its citizens". 9/11
communication interceptions never helped it's citizens.

As for the soldier, he did break the law in which he was hired for and
deserves his prison time. However, he should be treated humanely, what
ever that is. Is he a martyr, perhaps, the jury is still out.

I think it may be a crime to support illegal government activity.
Soldiers have a legal and moral right to blow a whistle.

What is legal/illegal is a fine line when it comes to intelligence
information.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

jellybean stonerfish wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:38:13 -0600, Mysterious Traveler wrote:

On 01/02/2011 02:27 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jan 2, 10:48 am, "Don wrote:
Summary execution.

It seems nobody is noticing that Assange is not a U.S. Citizen, so
cannot be held to have committed treason against the U.S.

HB

He played a stupid game he should have known was unwinnable. He should
have known what he was doing was wrong.

What was he thinking?

Did he think he was going to be a hero and get ticker tape parades in
his honor?

He is a hero. As is Bradley. They probably will not get a ticker tape
parade, because they are heroes for the people, not the machine.

I would use the term "martyr" instead of hero.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 15:50:25 +0000, Nad R wrote:

jellybean stonerfish wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:38:13 -0600, Mysterious Traveler wrote:

On 01/02/2011 02:27 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jan 2, 10:48 am, "Don wrote:
Summary execution.

It seems nobody is noticing that Assange is not a U.S. Citizen, so
cannot be held to have committed treason against the U.S.

HB

He played a stupid game he should have known was unwinnable. He should
have known what he was doing was wrong.

What was he thinking?

Did he think he was going to be a hero and get ticker tape parades in
his honor?

He is a hero. As is Bradley. They probably will not get a ticker tape
parade, because they are heroes for the people, not the machine.

I would use the term "martyr" instead of hero.

A bit premature.

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

I find it absolutley astounding that a 23 year old Private had access to
so
much information that has nothing at all to do with the military and
while
he was stationed in Iraq. Manning wasn't in Washinton in some snug
office
job but was stationed in what is effectively a combat zone.

That is simply astounding and beyond common sense. Heads should roll but
it
should be at very senior levels. Of course it'll be a silly young
Private
who gets crucified and the real incompetents who should be held
accountable
will get away with it.

Before 9/11 the intelligence agencies were divided and did not share
information. Information was splintered and few were allowed to see the
information collected.
After 9/11 a new agency was created called "Homeland Security". A vast new
agency that shared information from the different agencies like, NSA, CIA,
Military and the FBI. It was a knee jerk reaction and this gigantic
agency
was throw together haphazardly. Some people had access to information that
should not have, like a young Private that may not have as much maturity
as
an older person would have.

The stuff up by the intelligence community before 9/11 is well know as is
the scramble afterwards, but I can't see how that can excuse another stuff
up that seems to be pretty basic in nature.

Conditions in Iraq must be considered to be unstable at best even if anyone
wants to do a bit of sanitising and not claim its a combat zone. Having so
much information which US sources say is 'sensitive' accessable in Iraq is
just asking for trouble (even if it has all been as dull as dishwater).
Iraq would be a locale where most troops will suffer from some stresses and
strains arising from serving there. Manning is young and if he did what
he's accused of, then anyone should wonder if there is a major problem with
him. The consequences of such actions would be obvious to any serving
personnel as should the stupidity of bragging about leaking to a complete
stranger. Those actions aren't what I'd call 'normal'.

I assume Manning would have needed a Top Secret clearance at a minimum if
the info is as sensitive as it's been claimed. The sort of stringent checks
needed to get that sort of clearance should have shown up some reservations
about him.

The military complex is a behemoth that is bankrupting the United States
just to help the international corporations to stay mega rich while the
citizens go broke.

Yeah, but that military behemoth also solves a lot of unemployment problems.

People vote for the behemoth military out of fear and lies from our
politicians. Like most behemoth facilities they tend to get out of control
and run by local nut jobs.

I suspect your 'local' would not actually very local. I suspect it's more
like very 'senior' with lots of fruit salad hanging off the chest and
currently doing lots of backpedalling in order to cover a broad arse that
derserves a thorough kicking.

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 2:57 pm, "D. Staples" wrote:
Aiding and abetting the enemy in time of war, summary
execution.But...but...who is the enemy? Even granting your (faulty)
premise.

Get your spam out of here please