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Old 27-12-2010, 06:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season


I tend to agree that you don't save money by home gardening especially
the first year which is quite a large expense until you get things you
will need. YEP, it's a hobby which does cost money! But then again
all hobbies cost money. And I learned the hard way that small is
better. Last year I had 28 tomato plants and yes they all ripen about
the same time. That gave me four to six weeks for the wife and I to use
hundreds of tomatoes. We don't can or make sauce so it was impossible
to use all them tomatoes. I ended up giving more away than what we
used. And now that I think about it, that was kind of dumb. What I
was doing was giving away a lot of my time and money! This year them 28
tomato plants will be cut back to 8 or 10 instead. I already warned my
wife NOT to be telling a bunch of people that we would see to it that
they get tomatoes this year. This season I'm looking out for my own
best interests. If friends and neighbors want fresh vegetables, they
will need to put a garden in and grow it the same as I do!

Rich

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Old 28-12-2010, 12:12 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a
few veg/varieties.


So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)
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Old 28-12-2010, 12:16 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

I want my tomatoes to come in at the same time. I do preserve my own foods.
Most canning equipment is a one time purchase, except for the lids which
are cheap.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)
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Old 28-12-2010, 02:37 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season (Dan)


Some people may look at home gardening as a hobby while others may look
at it as being self reliant but the main thing is the cost factor. Is
it cheaper to grow it or buy it at market? Here again that would depend
on all factors involved. First we need seed or transplants, we need to
cultivate, fertilize, water and finally harvest then use, process and
preserve or market our crop. Each phase has a cost involved unless we
can find a way to get it for free or reduce the cost. If we have to pay
for all of the above then I think it's far cheaper to buy produce than
to grow it. Now this isn't counting our labor which if considered a
hobby is a labor of love in which we get enjoyment. Last season I would
of had to sell my tomatoes for at least $1 each just to break even or
perhaps $2 each! Yes I had a good crop but the Mantis tiller alone was
$375 plus gas and oil to run it. Steel support stakes at $3.50 each,
cow manure at $4 a bag x six bags, roll of garden fencing $50, slow
release fertilizer $20 and city water at $40 a month x 3 months. That's
on top of the price of seeds, peat pellets, potting soil, grow lights
and the electricity to fun them for eight weeks at 16 hours a day to
raise transplants. Now mind you, I'm not complaining simply because I
myself look at this as my hobby and I know in advance that all hobbies
can get rather expensive. Thank God I don't play golf

Rich

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Old 28-12-2010, 02:38 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because
the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only
a
few veg/varieties.


So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.


You do realize, don't you, Dan, that everybody else in the world knows
this. Getting there IS the trip, not being there.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug


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Old 28-12-2010, 03:29 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:12:07 +0000 (UTC), Dan L
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a
few veg/varieties.


So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.


You don't make any sense, you are simply attempting to defend the
indefensible... home veggie gardening is a hobby like all others,
primarilly gives pleasure but saves not a mot on ones grocery bill.
I've had a veggie garden every year for more than 60 years and never
saved a penny on food... canning and freezing costs more than buying
at the stupidmarket. NO hobby saves money and a home veggie garden is
definitely a hobby, one of the more costly hobbies when time, effort,
and losses to nature are factored in. I've been involved in several
hobbies, I've raised tropical fish for many years, collected stamps,
and coins and I've collected fountain pens most of my life and still,
at least I can occasionally sell fountain pens at a profit, I've never
sold a tomato at a profit. I garden strictly for enjoyment... no one
saves money with home vegetable gardening, it's 100% an expense...
actually more than 100%, a lot more... anyone who believes they are
saving money is fantacising. I recently spent over $300 on mole/vole
protection products, I'd have to sell a ton of tomatoes to maybe break
even. Just from reading here of people bitching about their watering
bills alone proves that gardening is not monetarilly profitable, never
mind all the other myriad cost aspects folks here constantly whine
about paying for.
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Old 28-12-2010, 03:29 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season (Dan)

A good book on seed saving.

http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-T...tt_at_ep_dpt_1

I do purchase seeds every year also. I do not purchase any vegetable
plants! One packet of tomato seeds cost around two dollars. I can at least
get thirty plants for that two dollars. One tomato plant can cost two
dollars at a nursery. I do start some seeds indoors. Ninety nine percent of
my seeds go directly into the ground. I spend nothing for compost or
manure. I have chickens and a cow for manure. Compost is free from the
local recycling center. I also have my own compost piles. Most of my
vegetable garden uses raised beds, so no tilling is necessary. Rain and
rain barrels cost little. I do have a well for backup water but rarely use
it for gardening. I do purchase some fertilizers for the plants. However if
one uses compost, one does not need as much fertilizer.

In the grocery market one small pint of cherry tomatoes cost $2. Leaf
lettuce runs around two dollars a pound. Much much cheaper to grow your
own. Two vegetables that are cheaper in stores are carrots and potatoes. I
am hard pressed to think of other vegetables that can be purchased cheaper
than I can grow. A dozen ears of corn cost about $2., that is just six corn
plants, I can get a thousand corn seeds for ten dollars. I do buy avocados
because I cannot grow them in my area.

One small 12 oz can of diced tomatoes cost a dollar in the markets. Canning
your own food is allot cheaper. I have a freezer full of corn and green
beans. What I do not preserve makes great compost.

The number one cost in home gardening is your personal labor cost which I
did not include. That personal labor cost is the factor that determines if
gardening is profitable. Eight hours of fishing might bring $20 worth of
fish, for some personal cost is important, some it is not.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)
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Old 28-12-2010, 03:53 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 154
Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:12:07 +0000 (UTC), Dan L
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a
few veg/varieties.

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.


You don't make any sense, you are simply attempting to defend the
indefensible... home veggie gardening is a hobby like all others,
primarilly gives pleasure but saves not a mot on ones grocery bill.
I've had a veggie garden every year for more than 60 years and never
saved a penny on food... canning and freezing costs more than buying
at the stupidmarket. NO hobby saves money and a home veggie garden is
definitely a hobby, one of the more costly hobbies when time, effort,
and losses to nature are factored in. I've been involved in several
hobbies, I've raised tropical fish for many years, collected stamps,
and coins and I've collected fountain pens most of my life and still,
at least I can occasionally sell fountain pens at a profit, I've never
sold a tomato at a profit. I garden strictly for enjoyment... no one
saves money with home vegetable gardening, it's 100% an expense...
actually more than 100%, a lot more... anyone who believes they are
saving money is fantacising. I recently spent over $300 on mole/vole
protection products, I'd have to sell a ton of tomatoes to maybe break
even. Just from reading here of people bitching about their watering
bills alone proves that gardening is not monetarilly profitable, never
mind all the other myriad cost aspects folks here constantly whine
about paying for.


Again you missed my first statement "The term "Hobby" could be used for
some".
For you it is a hobby, for me it is a way of life. Your thinking is narrow,
this or that, right or wrong, them or us, if you do not make cold hard cash
it is a hobby. Their is no middle ground in your world. I believe "this or
that", "right or wrong" are two thin lines with a vast grey area. You want
a hard line on your definitions. You are in the camp of "letter of the law"
and I am in the camp of "spirit of the law".

Go ahead say I am wrong

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)
  #24   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2010, 04:02 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 154
Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because
the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only
a
few veg/varieties.

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.


You do realize, don't you, Dan, that everybody else in the world knows
this. Getting there IS the trip, not being there.


Apparently not everyone
For me it is the path that is interesting. But for some, the completive
types, it is getting there that make them content and happy. The thing is,
if they do not get there they will be the old miserable ones.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)
  #25   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2010, 06:56 AM posted to rec.gardens
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Dan L wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a
good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because
the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my
only
a
few veg/varieties.

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.

The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by
your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can
take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other
favorite
subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three
times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the
time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive.
Gardening
does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird
watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and
Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby.
I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete
work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid
by
anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count?
Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a
hobby.


You do realize, don't you, Dan, that everybody else in the world knows
this. Getting there IS the trip, not being there.


Apparently not everyone
For me it is the path that is interesting. But for some, the completive
types, it is getting there that make them content and happy. The thing is,
if they do not get there they will be the old miserable ones.


Seems kinda like my reflection on French movies: some are where people
are miserable because they didn't follow their dream, and some are
miserable because they did. Yeah, I know, kinda restrictive isn't it?

The Fanny Series comes to mind, as does Jean de Florette. Hmmm, both
written by Marcel Pagnol. Probably not a good comparison. Good movies,
though.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug


  #26   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2010, 08:15 AM posted to rec.gardens
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,036
Default Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:12:07 +0000 (UTC), Dan L
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have
a good year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it
doesn't really matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any
one vegetable or even only one or two varieties of vegetables, I
would have missed out because the conditions for whatever didn't
do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a few veg/varieties.

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can
be beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and
often do and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then
there's the cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and
those get used up and fail too. Who do you think supports the
plant nurseries and gardening product aisles at the big box stores,
home gardeners is who. Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie
gardens for exactly the same reason folks tend to lawns, personal
satisfaction is all... even though one can't eat that grass neither
holds sway over the other, both are hobbies. No hobby is
profitable monetarilly, as soon as it is it's called a business. I
do gardening too, I'm motivated by enjoyment, not saving money...
no way can one save money from any kind of home gardening.


The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby
also by your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and
dryer when I can take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about
one of your other favorite subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when
one can go the restaurants three times a week? I am sure there are
cost advantages of eating out all the time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive.
Gardening does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive
physically. Bird watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure
only. like Chess and Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working
for yourself just a hobby. I built my own home, Me and two nephews
did everything except the concrete work and drywall. Is building
your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by anyone. So by your
definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count? Gardening and
food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a hobby.


You don't make any sense, you are simply attempting to defend the
indefensible... home veggie gardening is a hobby like all others,
primarilly gives pleasure but saves not a mot on ones grocery bill.
I've had a veggie garden every year for more than 60 years and never
saved a penny on food... canning and freezing costs more than buying
at the stupidmarket.


Your experience does not make it universally so. Unless you cost my time I
am in front by many hundreds of dollars a year every year. I bottle and
freeze quite a lot and once again it costs me almost nothing (people give me
boxes of preserving jars, lids and seals) and my time. Why is this an
article of faith with you? At some time in your history you totalled up
what gardening was costing you and you had an Ah Hah moment and decided that
you couldn't justify it financially. That's fine but it doesn't apply to
everybody.

NO hobby saves money and a home veggie garden is
definitely a hobby, one of the more costly hobbies when time, effort,
and losses to nature are factored in.


Well yes if you cost your time. But consider the alternatives such as going
to the gym or pushing myself through some excercise routine. These take
time, cost money, usually require equipment and to me are less pleasant.
What do you want out of a hobby beyond engaging the mind and body and (if
you allow ) social contacts?


I've been involved in several
hobbies, I've raised tropical fish for many years, collected stamps,
and coins and I've collected fountain pens most of my life and still,
at least I can occasionally sell fountain pens at a profit, I've never
sold a tomato at a profit. I garden strictly for enjoyment... no one
saves money with home vegetable gardening, it's 100% an expense...
actually more than 100%, a lot more... anyone who believes they are
saving money is fantacising.


Well colour me hallucinating! Last summer I sold about $50 worth of
tomatoes at the local farmer's market and all it cost me was effort.

I recently spent over $300 on mole/vole
protection products, I'd have to sell a ton of tomatoes to maybe break
even. Just from reading here of people bitching about their watering
bills alone proves that gardening is not monetarilly profitable, never
mind all the other myriad cost aspects folks here constantly whine
about paying for.



I don't have any watering bills. I spend a little on petrol to pump water.
I buy very little in the way of inputs, a few chemicals that I can't do
without and sometimes some seed, my seed is through a grower's club and very
cheap, my equipment is mainly years old and long paid for. I use recycled
wire as fences and recycled gates as trellises that were gifts. I collect
horse manure off the pasture and other people give me chicken litter. And I
don't have voles!

You keep going on about this. It seems to be a religious crusade that
nobody could come out in front from growing things. OK you can't come out
in front, I get that. Can't you see that other people in this world have
other experiences and consequently see things differently?

David

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"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because
the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only
a
few veg/varieties.


So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too.


I'm not a market gardener so yes, it could be called 'a hobby'. But then
since I'm not motivated by money or saving or selling then to me there's no
point in labelling it. It's something I'm very serious aobut and have been
for about 35 years. I didnt' even spend that much time as a wage slave and
that was supposed to be a 'profession'.

Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much.


No, they don't all 'come in' at once. That is an importatn point of my
growing stuff. I use succession planting and I also grow older varieties
which tend to crop over a long period rather than do their stuff in a week
and then die.

Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too.


I don't use 'powered equipment'. I use human power. I have never broken a
fork or a spade. I think I've broken one of maybe 2 handles in 40 years of
gardening and they were easily replaced.


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Old 28-12-2010, 11:32 AM posted to rec.gardens
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"Dan L" wrote in message

For me it is the path that is interesting.


Yup :-))

It's about the journey and not the destination.


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Old 28-12-2010, 05:44 PM posted to rec.gardens
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"David Hare-Scott" wrote
Brooklyn1 wrote:


You don't make any sense, you are simply attempting to defend the
indefensible... home veggie gardening is a hobby like all others,
primarilly gives pleasure but saves not a mot on ones grocery bill.
I've had a veggie garden every year for more than 60 years and never
saved a penny on food... canning and freezing costs more than buying
at the stupidmarket.


Your experience does not make it universally so. Unless you cost my time
I am in front by many hundreds of dollars a year every year. I bottle and
freeze quite a lot and once again it costs me almost nothing (people give
me boxes of preserving jars, lids and seals) and my time. Why is this an
article of faith with you? At some time in your history you totalled up
what gardening was costing you and you had an Ah Hah moment and decided
that you couldn't justify it financially. That's fine but it doesn't
apply to everybody.


Thats's his take. It doesn't match mine at all. Sure I do it for fun and
so I can know what is really in my foods, but the savings can be really
obvious with a small 'garden'.

Take one part only of mine. 12$ for a container bought a decade or more
ago. I got 2 bunches of chives (bulb on) and 2 of green onions (bulb on).
Used the tops and planted the bulbs with a bit of the green. First year I
had to crop carefully as they recovered. Since then, I get enough to even
dehydrate enough for the winter use. Since I moved back stateside in Oct
2007 (ITCS USN Ret), I had to restart a container in spring 2008. That
needed soil bought as I don't have enough topsoil to just strip some from
the yard (about 15$ worth). In 2009 and 2010, I didn't have to buy ANY
chives or green onion tops. I only bought a few in 2008 (replanting 1/2 the
bulbs). Once a year I add about 2$ worth of fresh soil and a little
fertilizer (mixed in a water jug).

I easily this past year cropped 30$ worth store-price chives and green
onions with a 2$ or so outlay. Even in 2008, I broke even although if I had
had to also get the container, first year would have been a loss.

I don't grow enough to be more than for 'fun' with most things but that's
just a choice in how much time I want to spend at it. You may 'scoff' at
container gardening, but with 26 years of apartment living, it's often the
only option so I got pretty good at it.


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Old 28-12-2010, 05:53 PM posted to rec.gardens
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"FarmI" wrote
Brooklyn1 wrote

Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much.


No, they don't all 'come in' at once. That is an importatn point of my
growing stuff. I use succession planting and I also grow older varieties
which tend to crop over a long period rather than do their stuff in a week
and then die.


Same here. With mostly containers in use, I learned to do the tomatoes in
several versions. Some early crop, some crop best mid-summer, others are
more fall prone (but crop some in summer).

6 -8 plants work for us for tomatoes. I normally do 6 bell peppers as well.

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