Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich

I have five rain barrels that gets me through between rains. Preserve those
tomatoes and will never have extra tomatoes again. Extra tomatoes also help
make great compost. Get a couple of hens and feed them your garden scraps
and get fresh eggs every morning.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On 12/26/2010 1:52 AM, EVP MAN wrote:

Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich


Now that you've learned that soaker hoses are wasteful, move on and try
proper drip irrigation which gives you drop-by-drop control over how much
each plant receives. AFAIK it is the most efficient method of irrigation
available. Add on an automatic controller which monitors soil moisture and
you will have the ultimate.

I don't think I'll have the funds for a drip irrigation system so I'll
no doubt use a gallon milk jug to water each plant. I've read a few
articles on the net where you can bury half a soda bottle near the base
of each plant and use them as a drip irrigation system. Perhaps I may
experiment with that method also. You sure hit the nail right on the
head when you called soaker hoses wasteful. Soaker hoses may be ok for
square foot gardening but with two - three feet between plants, there
is just way too much water being placed where it isn't needed.
Hopefully we will get more rain this season. Last year sure was dry in
my area. I hope each season my soil structure improves also. I have
heavy clay and this will be my third season working to improve it. I've
been adding cow manure, compost, grass clippings, dried leaves in the
fall and most any other kind of organic matter. I know it will take
time but I'm getting nice crops and it should improve with each passing
year

Rich from PA Zone 5-6

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 01:52:48 -0500, (EVP MAN)
wrote:


Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich

You don't say where you live (climate wise) so it's difficult to offer
explicit advice. But in any event soaker hoses are probably the best
of any watering alternatives. You'll use less water if you bury the
soaker hoses with a heavy application of mulch, you'll use less water
because you'll lose less. Also the better your soil is amended with
organic material the more water it will hold and hold it longer. There
really is no simple/inexpensive work around with how your water/sewer
company bills but I know that many small town municipalities bill
exactly the same way (it's very common), they charge for town sewer by
how much water you use with no regard for how you use that water, if I
lived in town I'd have the same. The only alternative I know of is to
drill your own well (if permitted), but if you're heavily into
gardening you'd do much better to move to a rural location. Not
growing so much is an excellent idea regardless where you live, who
needs all that extra labor just for the luxury of being able to show
off all your give-away crops. It's best to grow only what you can
use. Contrary to what so many think the home vegetable garden over
time offers no savings, it's a big expense, it's strictly a hobby...
even farming professionally is a huge gamble. With a home vegetable
garden over time you will have a few good crops but they need to be
weighed against the years when crops fail, and usually there will be
more bad years than good. In a way you are fortunate that you need to
do a lot of irrigating, what do you think happens to crops when it
rains nearly every day.

EVP MAN wrote:

Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich

You might approach your municipal authorities and point out that they
are charging you for a service you are not using. In our town, they
responded by reducing the sewage charge during the irrigation system by
a percentage designed to match your sewage charge to what water you use
during the non-irrigating system. Seems fair to me.

I agree that drip irrigation systems are more efficient than the
indiscriminate soaker hoses, although they take a bit more work to
install. You can use different sizes of nozzles depending on the
watering need of each plant, and I use extra long feeder lines, in case
I decide to move a plant (or one dies and I want to put the replacement
in a different spot. I think either will work well with rain barrels,
although I have read that some states do not allow rain barrels, arguing
that they keep the water from going into the aquifier (I have no idea
where they think the water goes after you take it out of the rain barrel
and put in on your garden or lawn).

"Notat Home" wrote

in a different spot. I think either will work well with rain barrels,
although I have read that some states do not allow rain barrels, arguing
that they keep the water from going into the aquifier (I have no idea
where they think the water goes after you take it out of the rain barrel
and put in on your garden or lawn).

Here, the objection to rain barrels is mosquitos. Although you can prevent
them with a thin layer of oil, that too requires some level of tending that
many do not do. Hehe I have a friend who uses them and he puts in a few
goldfish (feeding them yes). The fish poop doesnt harm the plants any.

On 12/26/2010 11:01 AM, Notat Home wrote:
EVP MAN wrote:

Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich

You might approach your municipal authorities and point out that they are
charging you for a service you are not using. In our town, they responded
by reducing the sewage charge during the irrigation system by a percentage
designed to match your sewage charge to what water you use during the
non-irrigating system. Seems fair to me.

I agree that drip irrigation systems are more efficient than the
indiscriminate soaker hoses, although they take a bit more work to install.
You can use different sizes of nozzles depending on the watering need of
each plant, and I use extra long feeder lines, in case I decide to move a
plant (or one dies and I want to put the replacement in a different spot. I
think either will work well with rain barrels, although I have read that
some states do not allow rain barrels, arguing that they keep the water
from going into the aquifier (I have no idea where they think the water
goes after you take it out of the rain barrel and put in on your garden or
lawn).

If you are considering using collected water from rain barrels or ponds or
whatever to feed a drip system be sure that you have a _good_ inline filter
in the water feed. It takes almost nothing to clog the drip emitters and
once they are plugged up they are a lost cause.

If I were younger and building or remodeling a house it would be great to
install an underground cistern for rain collection. In some rather dry
climates it is possible to collect enough free water for a large garden
from the roof of the house. Of course the huge underground storage tank is
far from free but over the span of a couple of decades it will surely pay
for itself several times over.

"Brooklyn1" wrote

lived in town I'd have the same. The only alternative I know of is to
drill your own well (if permitted), but if you're heavily into

I need to get mine checked out. I think the well is fine but the pump needs
servicing I bet.

Meantime, we haven't used it in the past 3 years.

off all your give-away crops. It's best to grow only what you can
use. Contrary to what so many think the home vegetable garden over
time offers no savings, it's a big expense, it's strictly a hobby...

Actually, it depends on how you go about it and it can be cheap indeed to do
for a few small things for a family of 3 with a few gifted items when there
is a surplus.

My findings are that once you are past the initial outlay for containers and
soil to fill them (if you need to purchase) then there are certain things
you can crop quite efficiently and cheaply even in an apartment porch.

Here's my list in order of 'easy' (containers 4ft x 12 inch by 8 deep mostly
but some taller or longer):

-Lettuce, especially baby or butter but any loose leaf type like romaine
works. 'Iceberg' not easy. Seed used, have 2 containers and multi-crop by
planting seed (can mix types in same container) every 6-7 weeks while
rotating containers. Works from April to November here.

- Green onions and chives, you can get the bulbs just off grocery store
plants you get in spring and plant the bottoms with a little of the top
sticking up. They will proliferate over time so you can use the bulbs too.
It's an invest once, crop for YEARS item. 1 container planted 2007 still
going strong.

- Parsley and many other herbs, seed planted. Most have to be reseeded each
year. a 2 ft section of container gets whatever herb I want more of that
year. Dehydrator used to preserve a years worth of our use.

- Cucumbers, if you don't mind them sprawling out of the container on the
ground. 1 end of a container gets these. 3 plants in a 2ft section fits us
but then, we aren't trying to make a bunch for pickling. 89cents for 3
plants (about the cost of a cucumber here is same as a plant seedling)

- Green Bell Peppers, we often go a whole container here with 6 plant
seedlings. Again, about 89cents a seedling and more than that for store
bought bells. I go heirloom here for the better more intense flavor. A few
stakes needed but easy to do.

- Tomatoes, types vary. I list these later only because you have to replace
the soil if you don't have the organic mulch to get a good crop year after
year. You also have to 'tree' them a bit more than peppers and that's not
as easy in a container. First year crop will be great then degrade until
you replace the soil (which can be rotated nicely to the lettuce containers
and onion set).

- Straight neck summer yellow squash, 1 plant can be pretty prolific and
crop up 1 8 inch squash every week for 2 months or more. These work better
in a deeper container. A left over kitty litter plastic container is a good
option is you have them collecting. Make a hole in the bottom-side about 2
inches up so it can drain.

There are others easy that I don't commonly do such as spinach (fits with
lettuce in ease) and eggplant (needs a deeper container) and carrots (again,
deeper container). Potatoes can be dead easy if you have a deep container
but i've not tried them as it sounds more work than I'd get back in produce.

Watering is done with a combination of hose or a gallon jar and in some
climates, I've used a drip system from a milk jug with fishtank air tubing.
If you line the pots correctly, there is little water loss on watering.

Total expense this year, about 15$. Water use, nominal, maybe 2$? Total
return as opposed to buying at the grocery, only 40$ profit but that's
because this year the bunnies from hell got my garden before all of it
cropped up fully. Most years, I do far better.

"EVP MAN" wrote

I don't think I'll have the funds for a drip irrigation system so I'll
no doubt use a gallon milk jug to water each plant. I've read a few
articles on the net where you can bury half a soda bottle near the base
of each plant and use them as a drip irrigation system. Perhaps I may
experiment with that method also. You sure hit the nail right on the

It can be done but I mostly container garden. Thats a simple factor of 26
years Navy moves and apartments involved where you can't have a garden.

Now I do it because I don't want my dogs peeing on my food (grin, maybe it's
organic but not the sort of organic I wanna eat!).

To make a container garden work, I've done the drip type milk/soda bottle
type of water feed often but the style is a bit different probably. It's
upended bottles with a pinhole at the 'bottom' (but hung up so that's at the
top) and fishing airline hose. That is a specific though to container
gardening and you seem inground.

fall and most any other kind of organic matter. I know it will take
time but I'm getting nice crops and it should improve with each passing
year

It will! Re-enriching the soil is the main failure of container gardens. I
need to do some serious replacement of up to 1/2 the soil next year in mine.
The soild though won't be wasted. It's still fine for the flowers and a few
spots of the yard could use some filling to even it out.

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:27:11 -0500, John McGaw
wrote:

On 12/26/2010 11:01 AM, Notat Home wrote:
EVP MAN wrote:

Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem
is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter.
Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used
never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were
super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides
but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two
gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was
researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my
research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not
so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses
for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that
doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so
I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to
friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I
got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two
people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for
my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his
gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice
gesture on his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also
and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at
all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he
ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch
of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't
happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for
(free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would
you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year

Rich

You might approach your municipal authorities and point out that they are
charging you for a service you are not using. In our town, they responded
by reducing the sewage charge during the irrigation system by a percentage
designed to match your sewage charge to what water you use during the
non-irrigating system. Seems fair to me.

I agree that drip irrigation systems are more efficient than the
indiscriminate soaker hoses, although they take a bit more work to install.
You can use different sizes of nozzles depending on the watering need of
each plant, and I use extra long feeder lines, in case I decide to move a
plant (or one dies and I want to put the replacement in a different spot. I
think either will work well with rain barrels, although I have read that
some states do not allow rain barrels, arguing that they keep the water
from going into the aquifier (I have no idea where they think the water
goes after you take it out of the rain barrel and put in on your garden or
lawn).

If you are considering using collected water from rain barrels or ponds or
whatever to feed a drip system be sure that you have a _good_ inline filter
in the water feed. It takes almost nothing to clog the drip emitters and
once they are plugged up they are a lost cause.

If I were younger and building or remodeling a house it would be great to
install an underground cistern for rain collection. In some rather dry
climates it is possible to collect enough free water for a large garden
from the roof of the house. Of course the huge underground storage tank is
far from free but over the span of a couple of decades it will surely pay
for itself several times over.

Break even over a couple of decades, that's twenty years, that
indicates a lotta bucks invested... not to mention unanticipated costs
like pump, wiring, electric, and plumbing, and what happens when it
doesn't rain... it would be far less costly to simply buy your produce
from the stupidmarket/farmstand. In dry climates water from a cistern
would get sucked up into the hot bone dry ground in no time, far
faster than you can collect it, a total waste. Unless you have a
natural body of water to pump from or your own well then what makes
the most sense is to keep your hobby farm small and use tap water. My
garden is located right along side a natural spring fed stream, even
during the dry spells it can keep the ground fairly damp for like 2-3
weeks. I have my own well too, but were I to use it constantly it
would cost a lot to repair it when it broke down. I learned to keep
my vegetable garden small, a few years back I gave up more than 1/3 to
blueberry bushes... a 50' X 50' plot can produce enough veggies for
six families, I got tired of giving them away. Knowing then what I
know now I would have built my garden 1/4 its size.

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

Break even over a couple of decades, that's twenty years, that
indicates a lotta bucks invested... not to mention unanticipated costs
like pump, wiring, electric, and plumbing, and what happens when it
doesn't rain... it would be far less costly to simply buy your produce
from the stupidmarket/farmstand. In dry climates water from a cistern
would get sucked up into the hot bone dry ground in no time, far
faster than you can collect it, a total waste. Unless you have a
natural body of water to pump from or your own well then what makes
the most sense is to keep your hobby farm small and use tap water. My
garden is located right along side a natural spring fed stream, even
during the dry spells it can keep the ground fairly damp for like 2-3
weeks. I have my own well too, but were I to use it constantly it
would cost a lot to repair it when it broke down. I learned to keep
my vegetable garden small, a few years back I gave up more than 1/3 to
blueberry bushes... a 50' X 50' plot can produce enough veggies for
six families, I got tired of giving them away. Knowing then what I
know now I would have built my garden 1/4 its size.

It is not all about cost. I prefer not to consume genetically engineered,
roundup filled soil and pesticide on my produce. If one purchases organic
produce, those cost factors may change dramatically. I can have varieties
that are not found at your local market. Also for me it is about being
independent, which also beyond a cost factor.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 01:52:48 -0500, (EVP MAN)
wrote:


Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my
vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The
problem is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a
water meter. Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though
the water used never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water
and sewer were super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there
are no free rides but this season I will water each plant by hand
with a measured two gallon of water per plant each week depending on
rainfall. When I was researching the use of soaker hoses, it all
sounded good. In my research, soaker hoses were said to conserve
your water usage but not so as I have discovered in my case. I was
running two 50' soaker hoses for a total of four hours a week. My
water and sewer bill more that doubled! I also planted far more
crops than my wife and I could use so I ended up giving away at
least half of all the vegetables I grew to friends and family. Cost
me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I got! This season I'm
not going to over plant and only grow what two people can reasonably
consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for my one neighbor.
Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his gratitude with a
case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice gesture on
his part indeed Gave another neighbor eight plants also and he
let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at all.
Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if
he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants,
he ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a
bunch of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I
was! Won't happen this year. After he kills all his plants and
wants to buy for (free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00
each. How many would you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit
wiser each year

Rich

You don't say where you live (climate wise) so it's difficult to offer
explicit advice. But in any event soaker hoses are probably the best
of any watering alternatives.

It depends on the situation. For small scale conservative targeted watering
what he doing now (hand watering) is likely best. For a larger scale where
carrying water is too tiresome drippers are very good, although they can be
expensive. It depends on how you rate the cost of water, your time and
capital costs.

You'll use less water if you bury the
soaker hoses with a heavy application of mulch, you'll use less water
because you'll lose less. Also the better your soil is amended with
organic material the more water it will hold and hold it longer.

For sure.

There
really is no simple/inexpensive work around with how your water/sewer
company bills but I know that many small town municipalities bill
exactly the same way (it's very common), they charge for town sewer by
how much water you use with no regard for how you use that water, if I
lived in town I'd have the same.

This is a strange billing system. I suppose it is some kind of attempt to
bill sewerage as "user pays" instead of at a flat rate. But it sure bites
the home gardener using town water. It is not used in these parts.

The only alternative I know of is to
drill your own well (if permitted), but if you're heavily into
gardening you'd do much better to move to a rural location.

Tanks or ponds to collect your own roof or surface water are other
possibilities, Gov regulations and cost permitting. There is no one size
fits all solution.


Not
growing so much is an excellent idea regardless where you live, who
needs all that extra labor just for the luxury of being able to show
off all your give-away crops. It's best to grow only what you can
use. Contrary to what so many think the home vegetable garden over
time offers no savings, it's a big expense, it's strictly a hobby...

I can see that it could be like that if you buy all your inputs or cost your
time and don't have much to show for it. I buy very few inputs and don't
cost my time so I am way in front year after year. For some there is real
joy in giving or spreading their bread upon the waters so a neighbourhood
dividend is not a luxury.

even farming professionally is a huge gamble. With a home vegetable
garden over time you will have a few good crops but they need to be
weighed against the years when crops fail, and usually there will be
more bad years than good.

And for you the glass isn't half full, it isn't even half empty, your glass
is near empty all the time. Don't assume that everything is as bad as you
see it, other people live different lives in different circumstances and
they are not all as grim as yours seems to be.

In a way you are fortunate that you need to
do a lot of irrigating, what do you think happens to crops when it
rains nearly every day.

Some of my best crops were when I lived in a dry inland climate (no fungus
and few bugs) and had access to plenty of water at no direct cost.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Brooklyn1 wrote:

Not
growing so much is an excellent idea regardless where you live, who
needs all that extra labor just for the luxury of being able to show
off all your give-away crops. It's best to grow only what you can
use. Contrary to what so many think the home vegetable garden over
time offers no savings, it's a big expense, it's strictly a hobby...

I can see that it could be like that if you buy all your inputs or cost
your time and don't have much to show for it. I buy very few inputs and
don't cost my time so I am way in front year after year. For some there
is real joy in giving or spreading their bread upon the waters so a
neighbourhood dividend is not a luxury.

And for us, we get a real joy out of eating really fresh food and where we
know the inputs.

even farming professionally is a huge gamble. With a home vegetable
garden over time you will have a few good crops but they need to be
weighed against the years when crops fail, and usually there will be
more bad years than good.

And for you the glass isn't half full, it isn't even half empty, your
glass is near empty all the time. Don't assume that everything is as bad
as you see it, other people live different lives in different
circumstances and they are not all as grim as yours seems to be.

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a
few veg/varieties.

In a way you are fortunate that you need to
do a lot of irrigating, what do you think happens to crops when it
rains nearly every day.

Some of my best crops were when I lived in a dry inland climate (no fungus
and few bugs) and had access to plenty of water at no direct cost.

Yup. I prefer inland growing - less humidity and good strong ehat when it
des event ually arrive. At the rate this summer if goign though I wont'
have tomatoes for at least another month and probably more like 2 months.
This is not going to be a tomato glut season.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good
year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really
matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even
only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the
conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a
few veg/varieties.

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a
hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing
stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste
better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at
once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat
only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to
supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be
beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do
and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the
cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up
and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and
gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who.
Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the
same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even
though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other,
both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it
is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by
enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind
of home gardening.