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Rainbow Eucalyptus
I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local
nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On 1/9/11 6:49 PM, MiamiCuse wrote:
I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? I have no experience with it. But it's listed in my Sunset's "Western Garden Book". Eucalyptus deglupta is also commonly known as Mindanao gum. It can grow 75-200 ft tall with a branch spread 30-75 ft wide. It is hardy to 24-26F. Sunset says it is fast-growing. If you plant it, you can have a tree service prune it periodically. Most eucalyptus grow sufficiently fast and vigorously that pruning scars are quickly hidden. In fact, some eucalyptus can be cut down to a 3 ft high stump and, within 4-5 years, will become a new tree with little sign of having been cut other than remaining small. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
MiamiCuse wrote:
I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. It's certain not to grow to that size in any timeframe that the nursery would care about but that isn't the answer to your question. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? How close is your climate and soil to those of its native range? Will it get full sun? The closer you are to its native environment the closer it will get to its maximum size. Even though many eucalypts are fast growing it is unlikely to make 200ft in your lifetime :-) Big trees near the house are a risk of falling over or dropping branches. Some Eucalypts have additional risks in that they shed branches at unpredictable times - that is you don't have to wait for a wind storm. I don't know if this one has that habit as being a foreigner it isn't in any of my books. Even if it only makes 60-80ft high, 30ft from the house is too close for me. When you see houses crushed under eucalypts on the TV news after every big storm because optimists don't think it can happen to them you get cautious. Are you prepared to take it down in 10-20 years time if necessary? David |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
In article ,
"MiamiCuse" wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? I don't know this tree, but normal, tan colored eucalyptus is a messy tree, always losing strips of bark and dropping leaves and seed pods as well as its irritating habit of having limbs snapped-off by a moderate gust of wind. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph p |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On Jan 9, 9:49*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I really like this tree. * Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. *They said it has been there since 1998. *They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. *They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk0....com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. *The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. *They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. *On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. *I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. *Anyone has experience with this tree? This is no help to your question but that is one cool looking tree. Thanks for putting the pictures out, you have made my snow filled day here in North Carolina! |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:49:33 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? I don't recommend planting any tree where that when mature were it to topple can fall on your house or any of your neighbor's property. Florida doesn't have sufficient depth/composition of soil to safely support such a tree... and Florida is hurricane heaven. |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
"Billy" wrote in message ... In article , "MiamiCuse" wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? I don't know this tree, but normal, tan colored eucalyptus is a messy tree, always losing strips of bark and dropping leaves and seed pods as well as its irritating habit of having limbs snapped-off by a moderate gust of wind. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph p The losing limps in a hurricane is one major concern. This is the actual tree planted at that nursery. http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...b/P1000902.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...b/P1000901.jpg See how close it is to their building, it looks to be about 35-40' tall now, and they said it was planted 25 years ago, so they are saying to me not to worry about being too close to the house. Of course I won't plant it like they did three feet from the foundation, I have about a 30 foot buffer, but still... |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
In article ,
"MiamiCuse" wrote: "Billy" wrote in message ... In article , "MiamiCuse" wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? I don't know this tree, but normal, tan colored eucalyptus is a messy tree, always losing strips of bark and dropping leaves and seed pods as well as its irritating habit of having limbs snapped-off by a moderate gust of wind. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph p The losing limps in a hurricane is one major concern. This is the actual tree planted at that nursery. http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...b/P1000902.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...b/P1000901.jpg See how close it is to their building, it looks to be about 35-40' tall now, and they said it was planted 25 years ago, so they are saying to me not to worry about being too close to the house. Of course I won't plant it like they did three feet from the foundation, I have about a 30 foot buffer, but still... Here in California, they were used for wind breaks. It's odd that such a slow growing tree would be used for a wind break. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw http://www.salem-news.com/articles/j...acks_1-5-09.ph p |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
Billy wrote:
I don't know this tree, but normal, tan colored eucalyptus is a messy tree, always losing strips of bark and dropping leaves and seed pods as well as its irritating habit of having limbs snapped-off by a moderate gust of wind. That was my thought, too. In addition, some varieties of eucalyptus can be very allergenic to people. gloria p |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On Jan 10, 12:27*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
MiamiCuse wrote: I really like this tree. * Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. *They said it has been there since 1998. *They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. *They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. *The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. *They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. It's certain not to grow to that size in any timeframe that the nursery would care about but that isn't the answer to your question. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. *On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. *I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. *Anyone has experience with this tree? How close is your climate and soil to those of its native range? *Will it get full sun? *The closer you are to its native environment the closer it will get to its maximum size. *Even though many eucalypts are fast growing it is unlikely to make 200ft in your lifetime :-) Big trees near the house are a risk of falling over or dropping branches. Some Eucalypts have additional risks in that they shed branches at unpredictable times - that is you don't have to wait for a wind storm. *I don't know if this one has that habit as being a foreigner it isn't in any of my books. Even if it only makes 60-80ft high, 30ft from the house is too close for me. When you see houses crushed under eucalypts on the TV news after every big storm *because optimists don't think it can happen to them you get cautious. Are you prepared to take it down in 10-20 years time if necessary? In addition it is likely to be messy like most eucalypts, they drop leaves all year round and this one sheds bark as well. You will not have much success at growing anything under it, they use all available water. Maybe bromeliads that you can overhead water. JB David- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On 1/12/11 11:36 PM, Golden One wrote:
On Jan 10, 12:27 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote: MiamiCuse wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. It's certain not to grow to that size in any timeframe that the nursery would care about but that isn't the answer to your question. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? How close is your climate and soil to those of its native range? Will it get full sun? The closer you are to its native environment the closer it will get to its maximum size. Even though many eucalypts are fast growing it is unlikely to make 200ft in your lifetime :-) Big trees near the house are a risk of falling over or dropping branches. Some Eucalypts have additional risks in that they shed branches at unpredictable times - that is you don't have to wait for a wind storm. I don't know if this one has that habit as being a foreigner it isn't in any of my books. Even if it only makes 60-80ft high, 30ft from the house is too close for me. When you see houses crushed under eucalypts on the TV news after every big storm because optimists don't think it can happen to them you get cautious. Are you prepared to take it down in 10-20 years time if necessary? In addition it is likely to be messy like most eucalypts, they drop leaves all year round and this one sheds bark as well. You will not have much success at growing anything under it, they use all available water. Maybe bromeliads that you can overhead water. All trees drop leaves. Some drop throughout the year. Ask anyone who has a pine tree or a southern magnolia. Others drop leaves seasonally. I have mounds of leaves on my patio and paths because the garden-waste bin is full of leaves, all from my ash tree. My compost pile has all the leaves it can handle without disrupting the composting process. My flower and shrub beds are mulched with enough leaves to keep the soil cool and moist this coming summer. And the tree is still dropping. Even palms drop their fronds. Also, while this particular eucalyptus sheds bark, there are "iron-bark" eucalyptus trees that do not shed. These include the red-flowering gum and the pink ironbark. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:51:08 -0800, "David E. Ross"
wrote: On 1/12/11 11:36 PM, Golden One wrote: On Jan 10, 12:27 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote: MiamiCuse wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. It's certain not to grow to that size in any timeframe that the nursery would care about but that isn't the answer to your question. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? How close is your climate and soil to those of its native range? Will it get full sun? The closer you are to its native environment the closer it will get to its maximum size. Even though many eucalypts are fast growing it is unlikely to make 200ft in your lifetime :-) Big trees near the house are a risk of falling over or dropping branches. Some Eucalypts have additional risks in that they shed branches at unpredictable times - that is you don't have to wait for a wind storm. I don't know if this one has that habit as being a foreigner it isn't in any of my books. Even if it only makes 60-80ft high, 30ft from the house is too close for me. When you see houses crushed under eucalypts on the TV news after every big storm because optimists don't think it can happen to them you get cautious. Are you prepared to take it down in 10-20 years time if necessary? In addition it is likely to be messy like most eucalypts, they drop leaves all year round and this one sheds bark as well. You will not have much success at growing anything under it, they use all available water. Maybe bromeliads that you can overhead water. All trees drop leaves. Some drop throughout the year. Ask anyone who has a pine tree or a southern magnolia. Others drop leaves seasonally. I have mounds of leaves on my patio and paths because the garden-waste bin is full of leaves, all from my ash tree. My compost pile has all the leaves it can handle without disrupting the composting process. My flower and shrub beds are mulched with enough leaves to keep the soil cool and moist this coming summer. And the tree is still dropping. Even palms drop their fronds. Also, while this particular eucalyptus sheds bark, there are "iron-bark" eucalyptus trees that do not shed. These include the red-flowering gum and the pink ironbark. However very few deciduous plants drop a noticeable amount of leaves during their growing season... conifers especially hold on to their needles until the very end of their growth period and then drop the needles from the previous year's growth, and if left to their own devices pine needles compost as quickly as they drop. Even trees that shed bark in sheets don't molt much during their growing season. When people speak of "dirty" trees they are refering to those that drop fruit/seed pods... but that occurs over a relatively brief period. The thing is trees are messy only if planted inappropriately... if all one has is like a 3,000 sqft yard then they should think very carefully about whatever trees they plant. And even if one plans to have a large fast growing tree removed in 25 years they had best start a removal fund the day they plant it... one of my neighbors had a 70' tall willow tree removed from his front yard this past summer, got really scared it would come down on his house during a period of high winds... cost him $1,200 to have that tree taken down, hauled away, and stump ground. That stump was some five feet in diameter... he planted that tree as a cute sapling forty years previously. |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
In article ,
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:51:08 -0800, "David E. Ross" wrote: On 1/12/11 11:36 PM, Golden One wrote: On Jan 10, 12:27 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote: MiamiCuse wrote: I really like this tree. Saw a specimen of it in the ground at a local nursery, it was about 15' tall with a tree trunk about six inches in diameter. They said it has been there since 1998. They planted it about five feet from the wall of the store. They have some for sale right now. http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk02a.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/trunk03.jpg http://eucalyptusdeglupta.com/5tree.jpg The problem is according to my search, in it's native habitat it grows to 250 feet with huge trunk. The local nusery said in here (miami, south Florida) it will not grow to near that size, but they can't tell me anything more. They planted one right next to their foundation wall and it has not grown to be huge. It's certain not to grow to that size in any timeframe that the nursery would care about but that isn't the answer to your question. So my question is whether I should take a risk and plant one. On my property I can plant one 25' or 30' from the house. I don't know if this is enough distance, the guy at the nusery says no problem, but he was trying to sell me a tree. Anyone has experience with this tree? How close is your climate and soil to those of its native range? Will it get full sun? The closer you are to its native environment the closer it will get to its maximum size. Even though many eucalypts are fast growing it is unlikely to make 200ft in your lifetime :-) Big trees near the house are a risk of falling over or dropping branches. Some Eucalypts have additional risks in that they shed branches at unpredictable times - that is you don't have to wait for a wind storm. I don't know if this one has that habit as being a foreigner it isn't in any of my books. Even if it only makes 60-80ft high, 30ft from the house is too close for me. When you see houses crushed under eucalypts on the TV news after every big storm because optimists don't think it can happen to them you get cautious. Are you prepared to take it down in 10-20 years time if necessary? In addition it is likely to be messy like most eucalypts, they drop leaves all year round and this one sheds bark as well. You will not have much success at growing anything under it, they use all available water. Maybe bromeliads that you can overhead water. All trees drop leaves. Some drop throughout the year. Ask anyone who has a pine tree or a southern magnolia. Others drop leaves seasonally. I have mounds of leaves on my patio and paths because the garden-waste bin is full of leaves, all from my ash tree. My compost pile has all the leaves it can handle without disrupting the composting process. My flower and shrub beds are mulched with enough leaves to keep the soil cool and moist this coming summer. And the tree is still dropping. Even palms drop their fronds. Also, while this particular eucalyptus sheds bark, there are "iron-bark" eucalyptus trees that do not shed. These include the red-flowering gum and the pink ironbark. However very few deciduous plants drop a noticeable amount of leaves during their growing season... conifers especially hold on to their needles until the very end of their growth period and then drop the needles from the previous year's growth, and if left to their own devices pine needles compost as quickly as they drop. Even trees that shed bark in sheets don't molt much during their growing season. When people speak of "dirty" trees they are refering to those that drop fruit/seed pods... but that occurs over a relatively brief period. The thing is trees are messy only if planted inappropriately... if all one has is like a 3,000 sqft yard then they should think very carefully about whatever trees they plant. And even if one plans to have a large fast growing tree removed in 25 years they had best start a removal fund the day they plant it... one of my neighbors had a 70' tall willow tree removed from his front yard this past summer, got really scared it would come down on his house during a period of high winds... cost him $1,200 to have that tree taken down, hauled away, and stump ground. That stump was some five feet in diameter... he planted that tree as a cute sapling forty years previously. Readers be advised: the above poster, Shelly/Brooklyn1, has a history of abusive behavior, and giving egregiously bad advice. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
Billy wrote:
Readers be advised: the above poster, Shelly/Brooklyn1, has a history of abusive behavior, and giving egregiously bad advice. Then why not address the bad advice where you see it and allow people to make their own judgments rather than lay generalised complaints. You two are getting tedious, there are plenty of places you can go ten rounds why make this another? David |
Rainbow Eucalyptus
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote: Billy wrote: Readers be advised: the above poster, Shelly/Brooklyn1, has a history of abusive behavior, and giving egregiously bad advice. Then why not address the bad advice where you see it and allow people to make their own judgments rather than lay generalised complaints. You two are getting tedious, there are plenty of places you can go ten rounds why make this another? David If you wish to redact and vet the errors Shelly/Brooklyn1's post feel free. If you want to criticize Shelly/Brooklyn1's sexism or racism, please be my guest. Hope you're nowhere near a high water mark. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw |
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