In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Since I got this iPad, I find my life has changed allot. I find myself
attached to it almost 24/7.

It doesn't bother you that some government/corporate type can look at
the key strokes of your life to determine what kind of consumer you are,
or whether you are a good citizen?

When computers were just becoming personal I read A whole earth
magazine entitled "Computers as poison" this from Steward Band and
friends. One maxim learned was not to fall in love with your machine.
Seems easier quoted then actualized.

http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Since I got this iPad, I find my life has changed allot. I find myself
attached to it almost 24/7.

It doesn't bother you that some government/corporate type can look at
the key strokes of your life to determine what kind of consumer you are,
or whether you are a good citizen?

They know everything about what you type here as well. Big Brother and
little Brother knows also. I have stated before, privacy is history, even
the government knows this for themselves, just read the Wikileaks. They
know what you read, been to google books, amazon, even what you eat. Buy
your seeds online? Do you use those grocery cards? During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied. Hundreds arrested afterwords. Privacy is
history. Even those VPN accounts are an illusion of privacy on the web. And
with Wikileaks I can know what they do as well. All is even.

I have been broken. I love the ministry of peace.
Like in the novel 1984, the last sentence, "I learned to love Big Brother".

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Feb 4, 9:46*am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:

[...]

**During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied. Hundreds arrested afterwords****

I tried to find this on Snopes, as it sounded exactly like the kind of
urban legend that Snopes so helpfully debunks.
In any event, hummus is also a quintessentially Israeli food, so when
can I expect that knock on the door...?

HB

[...]
--
Enjoy Life... Nad R *(Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Feb 4, 9:46 am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

[...]

**During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied. Hundreds arrested afterwords****

I tried to find this on Snopes, as it sounded exactly like the kind of
urban legend that Snopes so helpfully debunks.
In any event, hummus is also a quintessentially Israeli food, so when
can I expect that knock on the door...?

HB

[...]
--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

I remember this well, it was the news almost everyday, especially in
Dearborn Michigan's farmer jack stores, which went out of business because
of this. People stopped shopping there. All grocery stores stopped handing
out those cards in Michigan. However memories are short and the grocery
cards are back at Krogers. Their is no such thing as privacy. Try google
instead or are you afraid of the big bad wolf keeping track of what you
search. Now body is shaking.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...re-a-terrorist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x2245313

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

I have been broken. I love the ministry of peace.
Like in the novel 1984, the last sentence, "I learned to love Big Brother".

Oh, you retired types are all the same. You suddenly go conservative ;O)

I was rather hoping for more of a "Brave New World" kind of a future,
not an "1984".
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article
,
Higgs Boson wrote:

On Feb 4, 9:46*am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:

[...]

**During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied. Hundreds arrested afterwords****

I tried to find this on Snopes, as it sounded exactly like the kind of
urban legend that Snopes so helpfully debunks.
In any event, hummus is also a quintessentially Israeli food, so when
can I expect that knock on the door...?

3 AM seems to be the consensus.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

"Nad R" wrote in message
Higgs Boson wrote:
On Feb 4, 9:46 am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

[...]

**During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied. Hundreds arrested afterwords****

I tried to find this on Snopes, as it sounded exactly like the kind of
urban legend that Snopes so helpfully debunks.
In any event, hummus is also a quintessentially Israeli food, so when
can I expect that knock on the door...?


I remember this well, it was the news almost everyday, especially in
Dearborn Michigan's farmer jack stores, which went out of business because
of this. People stopped shopping there. All grocery stores stopped handing
out those cards in Michigan. However memories are short and the grocery
cards are back at Krogers. Their is no such thing as privacy. Try google
instead or are you afraid of the big bad wolf keeping track of what you
search. Now body is shaking.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...re-a-terrorist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x2245313

I can't find anything of substance using google. All I can find is
conspiracy theory - rumours, innuendo, derivative.

Has any US agency of government actaully admitted anything or is it just
something 'everyone' supposedly 'knows'?

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know
the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having
to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.

Yes, I understand that, however do you have a (semi-)reputable cite about
the humus buyers?

I know that information from buying activites can be collected and analysed
and that there may be some value in trying to identify people by purchases,
but the commitment of resources to such a potentially futile exercise is
probably beyond the tolerance for wastage of even a profligate
administration.

I also think that it would be unlikely that human resources with sufficient
sense would be available to do such a job even if the funding was there.
It's low level work but requires competent analytical skills.

You know how few people there are who post on usenet who can read a sentence
and analyse a few simple clauses in order to understand what's been said.
If the bulk of usenet posters is in any way representative of the pool of
talent in the general poupulace such a project would be very dangerous to
try to conduct.

It'd be a nightmare to oversight even if it did happen and I still have
doubts that it did happen. There should be some sniff online if it did take
place because there are implications of racial profiling and the potential
for claims of victimisation based on purchasing. It'd be a minefiled and
something that would be hard to hide and perhaps even more so in an
environment of constant conspiracy theories.

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.

I have a dozen or more of the cards, the cards do not have my real name or
address and I still get the discounts. The stores want your money and never
check ID. The stores that do not use the cards hands out deals just as good
as those that do. However, the same information is now on any credit card
used. So those discount cards today are not really needed. Also your
picture is taken with every purchase. Cash is still king, but for how long?

I also do my taxes by hand. I think by law, the government cannot sell your
personal information but corporations can. Tax agencies that perform taxes
online and those computer programs also sells your tax information to the
advertisers. Read the fine print on those tax software programs. Years ago
those money management software programs could also send your personal
financial information over the Internet without your knowledge, if you did
not have a good firewall. They embedded the tracking software in the
security tracks of ones hard drive that could not be erased even by
reformatting the drive.

Go back and look at the links I provided. A least seven hundred people was
detained from data mining after 9/11, no jury, no judge and no trial for a
month or two. Do you want the links reposted about this?

Even during World War II, the U.S. Detained Japanese for many months
without a judge, jury or trail. Like I said in previous post, the US
constitution states " For the Corporation by the Corporation". President
Bush shredded that older document years ago. Privacy is history get use to
it.

As an atheist, can't wait for the mark of the beast 666 to be imbedded into
my soul.
Also for the squeamish, the mark of the beast is already on everything you
buy. It is part of the UPC code. Two thin bars on each end and a two thin
bar in the center. The thin bars represent 666.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know
the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having
to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.

Yes, I understand that, however do you have a (semi-)reputable cite about
the humus buyers?

I know that information from buying activites can be collected and analysed
and that there may be some value in trying to identify people by purchases,
but the commitment of resources to such a potentially futile exercise is
probably beyond the tolerance for wastage of even a profligate
administration.

I also think that it would be unlikely that human resources with sufficient
sense would be available to do such a job even if the funding was there.
It's low level work but requires competent analytical skills.

You know how few people there are who post on usenet who can read a sentence
and analyse a few simple clauses in order to understand what's been said.
If the bulk of usenet posters is in any way representative of the pool of
talent in the general poupulace such a project would be very dangerous to
try to conduct.

It'd be a nightmare to oversight even if it did happen and I still have
doubts that it did happen. There should be some sniff online if it did take
place because there are implications of racial profiling and the potential
for claims of victimisation based on purchasing. It'd be a minefiled and
something that would be hard to hide and perhaps even more so in an
environment of constant conspiracy theories.

Nightmare indeed. It is more than rumored that the US has rows and rows,
floors and floors, building after building of super computers that monitor
every international phone call, every radio frequency, every email of the
entire world. What! You do not watch science fiction?

Hide what, the humus thing was on TV every other night eight years ago.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Since I got this iPad, I find my life has changed allot. I find myself
attached to it almost 24/7.

It doesn't bother you that some government/corporate type can look at
the key strokes of your life to determine what kind of consumer you are,
or whether you are a good citizen?

When computers were just becoming personal I read A whole earth
magazine entitled "Computers as poison" this from Steward Band and
friends. One maxim learned was not to fall in love with your machine.
Seems easier quoted then actualized.

http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html

Wonder how good it is in face of Narus' "Deep Packet Inspection"
software?

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/02/02/18670966.php
Narus, now owned by Boeing, was founded in 1997 by Israeli security
experts to create and sell mass surveillance systems for governments and
large corporate clients.

The company is best known for creating NarusInsight, a supercomputer
system which is allegedly used by the National Security Agency and other
entities to perform mass surveillance and monitoring of public and
corporate Internet communications in real time.

Narus provides Egypt Telecom with Deep Packet Inspection equipment
(DPI), a content-filtering technology that allows network managers to
inspect, track and target content from users of the Internet and mobile
phones, as it passes through routers on the information superhighway.
--

This is what AT&T used to spy on us.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

On Feb 4, 6:42*pm, Nad R wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:



"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? *I know
the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having
to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.

Yes, I understand that, however do you have a (semi-)reputable cite about
the humus buyers?

I know that information from buying activites can be collected and analysed
and that there may be some value in trying to identify people by purchases,
but the commitment of resources to such a potentially futile exercise is
probably beyond the tolerance for wastage of even a profligate
administration.

[...]

Nightmare indeed. It is more than rumored that the US has rows and rows,
floors and floors, building after building of super computers that monitor
every international phone call, every radio frequency, every email of the
entire world. What! *You do not watch science fiction?

I think Frontline had a program about that few years ago. The
installation was in San Francisco, IIRC. Dunno if it was as inclusive
as you suggest, but it was portrayed as pretty darn inclusive. Think
it also said that the amount of information was virtually impossible
to address.


Hide what, the humus thing was on TV every other night eight years ago.

And of course everything we see on TV is always, invariably, true and
provable.

HB

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message

During 911 every grocery
store had to give the names of everyone that purchased humus, an arabic
food, the grocery stores complied.

Excuse my scepticism, but are you pulling our collective legs? I know
the
US does some unbelievable daft things in the name of security, but having
to
give one's name in order to buy humus is just so incedibly silly, that I
find it hard to believe.

Can you provide a cite for that?

The large stores here will give you a small discount on your grocery
purchases, if you have a card from their store. The card is bar coded
and directs the purchases of your sale to your own personal database.
The database is of course for sale, so that when someone decides to sell
widgets, there is a data base of previous widget buyers, and advertiser
can aim their advertising at you. I don't use them, Admiral Poindexter
can find out about me the hard way.

Yes, I understand that, however do you have a (semi-)reputable cite about
the humus buyers?

I know that information from buying activites can be collected and analysed
and that there may be some value in trying to identify people by purchases,
but the commitment of resources to such a potentially futile exercise is
probably beyond the tolerance for wastage of even a profligate
administration.

I also think that it would be unlikely that human resources with sufficient
sense would be available to do such a job even if the funding was there.
It's low level work but requires competent analytical skills.

You know how few people there are who post on usenet who can read a sentence
and analyse a few simple clauses in order to understand what's been said.
If the bulk of usenet posters is in any way representative of the pool of
talent in the general poupulace such a project would be very dangerous to
try to conduct.

It'd be a nightmare to oversight even if it did happen and I still have
doubts that it did happen. There should be some sniff online if it did take
place because there are implications of racial profiling and the potential
for claims of victimisation based on purchasing. It'd be a minefiled and
something that would be hard to hide and perhaps even more so in an
environment of constant conspiracy theories.

It is symptomatic of our environment. Nobody knows if it's true, but it
sounds like our government. They spied on us illegally, and then,
retroactively passed a law that said it was OK. You seem to have an
honest government, at least your Prime Minister seems decent, but here
and in Europe, there has been a shift to the right since Bush. If your
computer has a web cam, I'd cover its lens when it wasn't in use. The
neighborhood has changed.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html