I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

The fresh seeds (a different variety) that I handled the same way 2
weeks ago are vigorous young plants and ready to be transplanted to
individual pots already.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? (I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) Would that work? Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

What do you think? If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...

-Bob

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:56:43 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

The fresh seeds (a different variety) that I handled the same way 2
weeks ago are vigorous young plants and ready to be transplanted to
individual pots already.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? (I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) Would that work? Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

What do you think? If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...


What do you mean by "very old"? Sounds like those old seeds have been
damaged by improper storage.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:56:43 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

The fresh seeds (a different variety) that I handled the same way 2
weeks ago are vigorous young plants and ready to be transplanted to
individual pots already.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? (I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) Would that work? Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

What do you think? If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...


What do you mean by "very old"? Sounds like those old seeds have been
damaged by improper storage.


They've been stored just fine, but they are 9 years old. Five years
is about the limit for pepper and tomato seeds. (Onion seeds are only
good for 1 year.) I had some fresher seeds of this variety 2 years
ago and planted them for a seed crop and had a total crop failure due
to rabbits and poor weather. I found this other packet from 2002 over
the winter.

-Bob

On Mar 28, 10:56*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. *I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. *But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. *I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

The fresh seeds (a different variety) that I handled the same way 2
weeks ago are vigorous young plants and ready to be transplanted to
individual pots already.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? *(I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) *Would that work? *Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? *I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

What do you think? *If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. *Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...

-Bob

Don't know if this info (OTHER AREAS FOR RESEARCH, pg 4-5) would help
your decision Bob but if you D/L the Deno reference PDF file from
USDA archives just know it takes a while as will the 2 supplements to
it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49881480/G...ic-Acid-3-GA-3

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:27:11 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:


They've been stored just fine, but they are 9 years old. Five years
is about the limit for pepper and tomato seeds. (Onion seeds are only
good for 1 year.) I had some fresher seeds of this variety 2 years
ago and planted them for a seed crop and had a total crop failure due
to rabbits and poor weather. I found this other packet from 2002 over
the winter.

-Bob


Have you tried putting a couple directly into potting medium? I find
that can sometimes help propagate & keep alive seedlings that would
otherwise go into shock from being transplanted.

I am a collector of seeds, myself, and try all sorts of workarounds
this time of year.

Boron

On 3/28/11 9:56 PM, zxcvbob wrote:
I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

The fresh seeds (a different variety) that I handled the same way 2
weeks ago are vigorous young plants and ready to be transplanted to
individual pots already.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? (I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) Would that work? Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

What do you think? If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...

-Bob

I have heard of using agar or gelatin for orchids. Orchids have very
tiny seeds. Hybrid orchid seeds generally require a sterile medium to
survive sprouting. They are then transplanted very, very carefully into
a more complex but still sterile growing medium.

The problem with sprouting any seeds not in a growing medium is that the
root hairs are usually damaged when the sprouts are planted in a growing
medium. This is also seen very often as the cause of failure when
cuttings are rooted in water and then potted.

Read my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_start_seeds.html. No,
this does not work all of the time; but it does work much of the time.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:56:43 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
a seed crop to keep the variety going. I've planted them twice
already; I put them in a damp paper towel on a heated bathroom
floor, and they germinate *very* quickly. But they are weak, and
when I move them to a little flat of seedling mix they die almost
immediately. I'm not sure if they can't push through the dirt, or
if they can't get out of the seed coat, but I think it's the former.

They've metabolized most of their reserves during their long storage, and
the probably just don't have enough to grow to the point that they're
photosynthesizing enough on their own. While you may actually get them
established, I'd be surprised if they catch up to their newer brothers.

How about starting some in sterile gelatin? (I have enough seeds to
try this 2 or 3 more times if necessary) Would that work? Or
agar-agar from the Chinese market? I could put them under the
growlights a lot sooner that way too -- they would receive light as
soon as they sprout, even while under the surface of the gel.

Either will work, though it may actually cause more problems with fungal
growth. Of the two, I prefer agar, as it's solid at room temp.

I'd probably use a 1/4" of sand over potting mix, and then cover the seeds
with a little milled sphagnum or well cured compost, and keep them damp,
but with good air circulation. Automatic misters help. Good light right from
the beginning... the faster they get photosynthesizing, the better
the chances are for survival. Put 'em right under the growlights....
1" max.

What do you think? If it works, it might be an easier way to plant
begonia seeds, etc.

I used to use fine polyacrylamide gel ("water gel") for sowing begonias,
squirted through a bottle with a fairly good sized hole in the tip.
Or the old trick of fine-milled sphagnum or sugar sand mixed with the seeds to
dilute the concentration when sown.


I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...

KNO3 breaks dormancy in some species of grasses, not in peppers.
You most likely haven't got a dormancy issue here, it's a
"slowly starved to death" issue.



-Bob

On Mar 29, 2:42*pm, Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:56:43 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
I have some very old pepper seeds that I'm trying to grow mostly for
.........

I've also heard of treating hard-to-grow seeds with potassium
nitrate, but I'm not sure what that's for. *Fertilizer, I suppose.
Maybe I should put one or two drops of KNO3 solution on the wet
paper towel before this current batch dies...

You wrote: " KNO3 breaks dormancy in some species of grasses, not in peppers. *
You most likely haven't got a dormancy issue here, it's a
"slowly starved to death" issue".


Kay, what is your grow light setup and your photo tropic period?

also, if you do not mind, I have a 2 part ?

1) I've heard similar anecdotal on "KNO3 breaks dormancy in some
species of grasses, not in peppers". Do you have a reference or a
path to that? Looking to quickly research this.

2) Have you, or the others here, any thought/experiences on using
Light, KNO3, and GA3?

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:22 -0700 (PDT), Gunner wrote:

Kay, what is your grow light setup and your photo tropic period?

Don't have one. Wouldn't go over 16 hrs light because of the problems with
some plants and flowering under 24 hour lights.


also, if you do not mind, I have a 2 part ?

1) I've heard similar anecdotal on "KNO3 breaks dormancy in some
species of grasses, not in peppers". Do you have a reference or a
path to that? Looking to quickly research this.

Should be able to pick that out of any seed technology handbook or textbook.
Try he http://books.google.com/books?id=cS6...q=kno3&f=false which should lead you to some
primary references.

2) Have you, or the others here, any thought/experiences on using
Light, KNO3, and GA3?

For what purpose? Pepper germination? IIRC, 50ppm GA improved seed
germination in fresh Capsicum. Try searching AGRICOLA for more help...
I'm just doing this off the top of my head.

http://agricola.nal.usda.gov/cgi-bin...STARTDB=AGRIDB

replying to Gunner, Kasperskid wrote:
Try a mixture of agar and bio char

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/garden...tin-95892-.htm