Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 11-06-2011, 05:17 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

i think i had started to write this up,
but i don't find the draft. so...

first of all some background. the soil
i normally use for one garden is mostly
clay that i've been reconditioning over
the years by growing cosmos and then
burying the leftover dried stems and any
other remaining organic materials i can
find in a long trench. from year to year
i keep moving the trench back and forth
digging it up and chopping the stems as i
shovel. the stems don't fully rot for
several years.

this past year after reading about terra
preta and biochar i thought i would try to
make some charcoal and then use it in areas
to see what the effect would be on seed
sprouting (and later growth as the season
advances) for several species of plants.

first of all i used the worst part (the
area with the most clay) of the trench from
last season to dig down further into the
clay (about 3ft down total). making a
space about 10ft long and 3-4ft across. i
put all the super dry cosmo stems and other
easily burning stuff in the bottom and
stomped it down good before taking some
dried up shrubs and trimmed off all the
small leaves and stems and put that down
next with the trunks on top then stomped
all this down too.

then to start building a canopy i put
some long branches across and other longer
pieces of wood and old pallet pieces that
we would normally just bury and let the
fungi/mushrooms work on. on top of these
i put some cardboard and damp earth to
seal things up on top. i left both ends
open a little so i could get a fire going.

with the wind shifting constantly it
was a real PITA. i walked miles around
that trench and the smoke kept shifting to
follow me. with my lungs it wasn't the
best, but the smoke actually was mostly
steam coming out.

as the ends burned and dried the covering
soil it tended to cave in and self limit
the amount of oxygen, but i also wanted to
make sure it was getting hot enough to char
as much of the materials as possible.
using such a primitive thing as a trench,
cardboard and dirt i wasn't going to get
perfect results. i was curious to see
how well it would do anyways. a more
controlled setup like a double burner made
of metal would probably give better results
but that is beyond my current skills to
build/operate.

after several hours of steaming and
burning i finally buried the largest
chunks remaining and called it a day.
heavy rains that night and the next day
put the trench under water and i was
busy for a few days letting it dry out
a bit before curiousity and time became
available to do a little digging. after
a few minutes i could tell there was a
lot of change in how the clay and
charcoal with plenty of water added was
sticking to the shovel. actually, it
wasn't. that was an immediate nice thing
when it comes to clay. i normally spend
a fair amount of time just knocking or
scraping the stuff off the shovel. this
made digging it all up much easier and
faster.

i ended up with about 3cu feet of
charcoal and as i was digging it out
it mixed somewhat with the baked clay
and clay around it. there was standing
water at the bottom of the trench so
that gives you an idea of how wet it
was, but i didn't have much of a
sticking mess problem at all. for
that reason alone i would consider this
a good thing... what it will do longer
term we shall see, and if i keep making
more and adding it that will also be
interesting to see what happens.

with the charcoal/clay mix i made two
test areas a few feet long and a little
over a foot across separated by normal
soil of about the same size and another
part on the other side with some extra
sand in it. then i ran four lines of
different seeds through the whole area
crossing the test patches, regular soil
and added sand soil. after about a week
it appears to not have negatively impacted
seed germination for birdsfoot trefoil,
alfalfa, green beans or buckwheat. i
expected some change because it was so
newly burned and it wasn't mellowed at all
by adding any compost or aged or anything
other than watered.

further through the season i will keep
an eye on all of them and see how they do.

i'm unsure what i will do in the future
as the burning took a lot of effort. a
better means of doing it (covering with
metal instead of cardboard) and then sealing
it up with dirt would let me fire it, get
it going and then leave it alone so i wouldn't
have to spend so much time monitoring and
fiddling. of course an oven with temperature
and oxygen controls would be much better but
that's unlikely to happen any time soon here.

the carbon in the charcoal should stick
around for many years longer than the stems
and sticks otherwise would have so this is
a sure soil building tactic. adding compost
and green stuff to it and then getting some
worms planted into it would certainly make
it even better. the charcoal itself will
lighten the clay, i've already seen the
direct evidence in that from digging it out
of the trench.

grinding it up some would probably help too
as there are enough larger pieces in there,
but i'll let that go for now and let them
break down as i spade and turn under materials
as i normally would when done with a plot. the
stripes of birdsfoot trefoil and alfalfa along
the edge will be left alone for a multiyear
observation. other than weeded i have no
plans to turn or add materials to those
plantings other than what grows there itself.
unfortunately i didn't have enough material to
set aside larger areas to use as controls and
test plots or to have more variables to test.
some other time perhaps.

i thought for sure that the charcoal and clay
mix would be too harsh for worms but as i was
smoothing out the areas to get them ready for
seeding i did notice several worms in there
that seemed ok. it being so wet and the clay
probably well buffered or neutralized any harsh
chemicals. if it was dryer and there was dry
ash i wouldn't have expected to see worms that
is for sure.

so it is possible to make charcoal in a low
tech way and to sprout seeds in it within a
few days. nothing really earth shattering
in any of this, but interesting that the
effect on clay was immediate. i could see
why an ancient rain forest dweller with clay
subsoil (as is common in rain forests) would
notice it and want to use it for a garden/soil
ammendment.


songbird
  #2   Report Post  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:38 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

In article ,
songbird wrote:

and other


Keep up the good work. Your efforts are very interesting.

You may want to invest in a metal trash can. Once the fire is going,
throw in the small stuff, and put the lid on the trash can.

Tropical rain forests have laterite soils, not clay. Water absorbs CO2
from the atmosphere, and becomes carbonic acid (H2CO3). The carbonic
acid, in turn, disolves metals in the soil, leaving a soil rich in iron
and aluminum. The soil is usually very porous and will not hold
nutrients (being a rain forest, water retention is not a concern).
The classic example is from a book called "The Ugly America". IIRC it
concerned a tractor salesman in the 1960s, who was spreading the word
about the "Green Revolution" in farming. He plowed a rice paddy as a
demonstration, somewhere in South East Asia. When he finished, the rice
paddy disappeared, because he had destroyed the lining of the paddy
(organic or clay, I don't know), and the water went down the laterite
like water down a drain.

Keep us up dated.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #3   Report Post  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:21 PM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

Billy wrote:
....
Keep up the good work. Your efforts are very interesting.


it sure beats tv.


You may want to invest in a metal trash can. Once the fire is going,
throw in the small stuff, and put the lid on the trash can.


i suspect there is too much oxygen
and opening the lid would introduce more.
from what i can tell there has to be heat
and lack of oxygen. if i filled the trash
can with stuff and then was able to get
another fire going in a larger trash
barrel like a 55 gallon drum and then
set the smaller metal trash can on top
of the fire in the drum that might do
it, or not, that would be one of the more
simple designs.

the question would be about how much fuel
i would have to put underneath to bake the
contents of the trash can to charcoal. and
i probably would need some sort of one-way
valve to let off the steam and gasses.

this being a low tech and low budget
operation i only have access at present to
some flat sheet metal pieces that i can
use to lay over the top of a trench.
piling dirt around the edges to seal it
up and some wet dirt on top to keep the
metal cool so that it doesn't warp is
about the level of technology here. i
almost scored some heating duct tubes from
my brother but he forgot i wanted them and
took them to the metal recycler. oops.

one other interesting aspect is that
by firing the stuff in a trench in the
ground any liquids given off that aren't
driven off as vapor are absorbed by the
soil under and around the trench. i'm not
sure if there are much in the way of
nutrients in that liquid (i suspect most
of it would be water or alcohols, but my
reading so far isn't very detailed on the
volatile byproducts) but a steel contraption
would lose that. it remains an item i'll
continue to look into as i get time and
rainy days.

i don't have enough new dry materials to
do any more test burns until either this
fall or next spring. the metal instead of
cardboard over the trench will likely be
the change i'll make to see if that makes it
much easier. i'm not looking to scrounge
new organic materials either at this point.
too much other stuff going on that needs work
or weeding. a few interesting angles are
possible with some local enterprises yet it
will be a bit before i'll get a chance to
explore them.


Tropical rain forests have laterite soils, not clay. Water absorbs CO2
from the atmosphere, and becomes carbonic acid (H2CO3). The carbonic
acid, in turn, disolves metals in the soil, leaving a soil rich in iron
and aluminum. The soil is usually very porous and will not hold
nutrients (being a rain forest, water retention is not a concern).



thanks for the correction/information, i knew it
was very poor soil (not what you would expect from
such a rich canopy overhead) and was surprised to
find out that most of the nutrients are quickly
recycled or leached away.


The classic example is from a book called "The Ugly America". IIRC it
concerned a tractor salesman in the 1960s, who was spreading the word
about the "Green Revolution" in farming. He plowed a rice paddy as a
demonstration, somewhere in South East Asia. When he finished, the rice
paddy disappeared, because he had destroyed the lining of the paddy
(organic or clay, I don't know), and the water went down the laterite
like water down a drain.


never heard of this one before. huh.

similar to the design of terraces and
how much a simple change like introducing
a different species of worms can destroy
the ability of the edge to effectively
hold water requiring a change from rice to
different crops.


Keep us up dated.


sure thing.


songbird
  #4   Report Post  
Old 11-06-2011, 09:09 PM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Keep up the good work. Your efforts are very interesting.


it sure beats tv.


You may want to invest in a metal trash can. Once the fire is going,
throw in the small stuff, and put the lid on the trash can.


i suspect there is too much oxygen
and opening the lid would introduce more.
from what i can tell there has to be heat
and lack of oxygen. if i filled the trash
can with stuff and then was able to get
another fire going in a larger trash
barrel like a 55 gallon drum and then
set the smaller metal trash can on top
of the fire in the drum that might do
it, or not, that would be one of the more
simple designs.

the question would be about how much fuel
i would have to put underneath to bake the
contents of the trash can to charcoal. and
i probably would need some sort of one-way
valve to let off the steam and gasses.

this being a low tech and low budget
operation i only have access at present to
some flat sheet metal pieces that i can
use to lay over the top of a trench.
piling dirt around the edges to seal it
up and some wet dirt on top to keep the
metal cool so that it doesn't warp is
about the level of technology here.


1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann
http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio...umbus/dp/14000
32059/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296839060&sr=1-1

p.344
GIFT FROM THE PAST
Terra preta exists in two forms: terra preta itself, a black soil thick
with pottery, and terra mulata, a lighter dark brown soil with much less
pottery. A number of researchers believe that although Indians made
both, they deliberately created only the terra mulata. Terra preta was
the soil created directly around homes by charcoal kitchen fires and
organic refuse of various types.
---

Charcoal isn't particularly high tech to make. Locally, they used to dig
a cave (short tunnel) in the side of a hill. Fill the cave with wood.
Set the wood on fire, and then bury the mouth of the cave. The charcoal
would be removed a week later.

More in the vein of your approach would be the "Chuckwagon Hoedown Bbq".

You need a backhoe to dig a hole big enough to accommodate
several cords of wood. Use hardwoods, apple is good and fenceposts
are acceptable, but do not use treated or creosoted wood. Once the
wood has burned down to a bed of coals several feet deep, about four
hours, prepare the beef: cut into large chunks of 15 pounds each,
wrap in butcher paper and then in wet burlap bags; tie securely. Toss
the packages directly onto the coals, quickly cover with a large
sheet of tin, and cover the tin with dirt. The secret is to keep out
oxygen so the coals do not burn quickly and burn the meat. The beef
is left to cook- allow 12 hours for this.

After the 12 hours are up uncover the bundles; they will not be
charred. Unwrap, slice and serve with baked beans, fresh bread,
salads, pickles and for dessert 60 assorted pies and 30 cakes.

Yield: 480 Servings

Not only do you get charcoal, you also won't have to cook again for at
least 4 month ;O)

i
almost scored some heating duct tubes from
my brother but he forgot i wanted them and
took them to the metal recycler. oops.

one other interesting aspect is that
by firing the stuff in a trench in the
ground any liquids given off that aren't
driven off as vapor are absorbed by the
soil under and around the trench. i'm not
sure if there are much in the way of
nutrients in that liquid (i suspect most
of it would be water or alcohols, but my
reading so far isn't very detailed on the
volatile byproducts) but a steel contraption
would lose that. it remains an item i'll
continue to look into as i get time and
rainy days.

i don't have enough new dry materials to
do any more test burns until either this
fall or next spring. the metal instead of
cardboard over the trench will likely be
the change i'll make to see if that makes it
much easier. i'm not looking to scrounge
new organic materials either at this point.
too much other stuff going on that needs work
or weeding. a few interesting angles are
possible with some local enterprises yet it
will be a bit before i'll get a chance to
explore them.


Tropical rain forests have laterite soils, not clay. Water absorbs CO2
from the atmosphere, and becomes carbonic acid (H2CO3). The carbonic
acid, in turn, disolves metals in the soil, leaving a soil rich in iron
and aluminum. The soil is usually very porous and will not hold
nutrients (being a rain forest, water retention is not a concern).



thanks for the correction/information, i knew it
was very poor soil (not what you would expect from
such a rich canopy overhead) and was surprised to
find out that most of the nutrients are quickly
recycled or leached away.


The classic example is from a book called "The Ugly America".

The Ugly American by Eugene Burdick and William J. Lederer (Jan 1, 1999)
http://www.amazon.com/Ugly-American-...318672/ref=sr_
1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307818900&sr=1-1
(Avalable at a library near you, until they are closed)

IIRC it
concerned a tractor salesman in the 1960s,

I didn't remember correctly, the book was published in 1958.

who was spreading the word
about the "Green Revolution" in farming. He plowed a rice paddy as a
demonstration, somewhere in South East Asia. When he finished, the rice
paddy disappeared, because he had destroyed the lining of the paddy
(organic or clay, I don't know), and the water went down the laterite
like water down a drain.


never heard of this one before. huh.

similar to the design of terraces and
how much a simple change like introducing
a different species of worms can destroy
the ability of the edge to effectively
hold water requiring a change from rice to
different crops.


Keep us up dated.


sure thing.


songbird

--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #5   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2011, 03:37 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

ok, some results appear already.

all of the legumes are growing fine.
all rows of them are of the same height.

the buckwheat shows a decline in height
of a few inches in the zones where there
is charcoal mixed in the soil.

since i am not a chemist and cannot
test the soil itself directly i can only
guess that the difference is that the
charcoal is binding some of the nutrients
in the clay.

as a testable hypothesis, eventually i
expect the height to even out for the
buckwheat and the rest would remain the
same (the legumes).

too busy ATM to trim and post the
picture... not even sure it turned out
until i import it from the camera to
the computer. some day.


songbird


  #6   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2011, 07:47 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

In article ,
songbird wrote:

ok, some results appear already.

all of the legumes are growing fine.
all rows of them are of the same height.

the buckwheat shows a decline in height
of a few inches in the zones where there
is charcoal mixed in the soil.

since i am not a chemist and cannot
test the soil itself directly i can only
guess that the difference is that the
charcoal is binding some of the nutrients
in the clay.

as a testable hypothesis, eventually i
expect the height to even out for the
buckwheat and the rest would remain the
same (the legumes).

too busy ATM to trim and post the
picture... not even sure it turned out
until i import it from the camera to
the computer. some day.


songbird


IIRC the soil is supposed to be 20% charcoal for this to work.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #7   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2011, 08:58 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,036
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

songbird wrote:
ok, some results appear already.

all of the legumes are growing fine.
all rows of them are of the same height.

the buckwheat shows a decline in height
of a few inches in the zones where there
is charcoal mixed in the soil.

since i am not a chemist and cannot
test the soil itself directly i can only
guess that the difference is that the
charcoal is binding some of the nutrients
in the clay.

as a testable hypothesis, eventually i
expect the height to even out for the
buckwheat and the rest would remain the
same (the legumes).

too busy ATM to trim and post the
picture... not even sure it turned out
until i import it from the camera to
the computer. some day.


songbird


Do you have a pH test kit? If the charcoal contains much wood ash it will
raise the pH .

D

  #8   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2011, 04:27 PM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

Billy wrote:
....
IIRC the soil is supposed to be 20% charcoal for this to work.


i didn't measure the volume as it
was made in a trench (in clay) and
it was then submerged in water for
a few days before i could excavate.

it was mixed with the clay as it
was shoveled out of the trench into
the test plots next to it and appeared
to be roughly 10-30% charcoal, but i
couldn't be sure of the exact proportion.
enough of it was large chunks that it
will take some time before those get
broken apart.

to do a measured proportion test plot
would take a lot of separation and then
remixing. if i were to go that far i'd
have to grind it up too. all in good
fun if i had an old chipper or meat
grinder around to encourage into more
decreptitude... but at the moment i
see little movement towards such
happenings. i'm so far behind in
weeding all my extra time is going to
keeping the new patches going and getting
caught up.

in fun reading lately:

_Long for this World, the strange
science of imortality_ by Jonathan Weiner.
interesting read, much somewhat familiar
to me from general science reading.

i'm looking forwards to gnawing through the
resources and reading list in the back on the
rainy days.

next up is Darwin's classic _Vegetable
Mould and Earth-Worms_. 1888 edition,
still in very nice condition. i know i
won't look as good at 123 years.


songbird
  #9   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2011, 05:17 PM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
Do you have a pH test kit? If the charcoal contains much wood ash it will
raise the pH .


no test kit here. many areas are
downslope from tons of crushed limestone
so high pH is known. when i do a new
garden or plant things that are notorious
for pH effects i ammend accordingly. so
far few bad results.

if i were growing something notoriously
finicky i'd pick one up.

the charcoal was made in a trench that was
submerged shortly after it was burned. when i
was digging to examine it right when it was
done and as the light was fading it didn't
seem to be a lot of ashes. not like what
you would get from the bottom of a stove
or an open pit. it was good and black in
the large part. i remember being pretty happy
with the results for it being such a low tech
operation.

i was rather surprised that so much sprouted
normally only days after the charcoal being
burned. i thought for sure that it would be
too harsh to sprout or grow much for a spell.


songbird
  #10   Report Post  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:35 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:


....much snipped but appreciated thanks Billy...

i didn't measure the volume as it
was made in a trench (in clay) and
it was then submerged in water for
a few days before i could excavate.

it was mixed with the clay as it
was shoveled out of the trench into
the test plots next to it and appeared
to be roughly 10-30% charcoal, but i
couldn't be sure of the exact proportion.
enough of it was large chunks that it
will take some time before those get
broken apart.


Ay, there's the rub. Surface area is everything, and the larger the
piece of charcoal, the less effective it is. You may want to hammer on
some of the larger pieces of charcoal to reduce their size.


it's being used at the moment.


I'm just using charcoal from a wood stove, and a barbecue, It's slow,
but Rome wasn't built in a day.


right. if i gradually smash and break
up the pieces over the course of a few
years then the end is still accomplished.
the carbon is largely sequestered and
acting as a substrate for all sorts of
other interesting things.


to do a measured proportion test plot
would take a lot of separation and then
remixing. if i were to go that far i'd
have to grind it up too. all in good
fun if i had an old chipper or meat
grinder around to encourage into more
decreptitude... but at the moment i
see little movement towards such
happenings. i'm so far behind in
weeding all my extra time is going to
keeping the new patches going and getting
caught up.

Amen, sister, Amen.


coming along slowly. chiropractor is
getting me untwisted from last fall's
raking. i could go all summer last year
hauling tons of materials and have very
few back troubles, many hours of digging,
etc. a few aches but nothing major.
a half hour of raking and i was scrod.
finally gave in beginning of June and
started seeing if something could help.
so far it is helping so we'll see how
it continues. cutting into my gardening
time though. grr!


in fun reading lately:

_Long for this World, the strange
science of imortality_ by Jonathan Weiner.


This would be the other Wiener?


o.s.c.a.r. ha, j/k, interesting
read. i've moved on to Socrates/Plato
for the nonce.


interesting read, much somewhat familiar
to me from general science reading.

Immortality?! (shock, shudder) What if leaves were immortal? We'd be up
to our necks in ancient detritus.


if there weren't worms, fungi, bacteria
and mechanical forces they would be quite
a pile, but there would be plenty of other
stuff too (wood, dead organisms, bones, etc).


The anthem, here at Camp Runamuck, is "Thank Heaven, I'm not Young
Anymore", closely followed by "Ah yes, I Remember It Well".
http://www.rhapsody.com/#/artist/the...um/gigi-origin
al-motion-picture-soundtrack
These are only snippets, but you'll get the drift.

i'm looking forwards to gnawing through the
resources and reading list in the back on the
rainy days.

next up is Darwin's classic _Vegetable
Mould and Earth-Worms_. 1888 edition,
still in very nice condition. i know i
won't look as good at 123 years.


Taxidermy is your friend ;O)


it was a quick read, some of it
interesting.


My main reading material (by my bed, not the one in the bathroom [The
Great Derangement by Matt Taibbi]) is Animal Factory: The Looming Threat
of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the
Environment by David Kirby
Kirby has a novelist's style of writing, which makes it easy to read,
and the first 3 chapters are brief biographies of 3 people's run ins
with CAFO pork producers. There is enough Sturm und Drang in it for
anyone.


my previous readings on this topic leave
me no doubt that it's a time-bomb. i have
no idea how regulators, government agricultural
folks, agricultural scientists at the universities,
etc can be so blase' about the whole mess.
complacency may do many more us in.


Billy rolling over now to stare at the stars.


fireflies are going gonzo now here so those
are the stars i see.


songbird


  #11   Report Post  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:01 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:


...much snipped but appreciated thanks Billy...

i didn't measure the volume as it
was made in a trench (in clay) and
it was then submerged in water for
a few days before i could excavate.

it was mixed with the clay as it
was shoveled out of the trench into
the test plots next to it and appeared
to be roughly 10-30% charcoal, but i
couldn't be sure of the exact proportion.
enough of it was large chunks that it
will take some time before those get
broken apart.


Ay, there's the rub. Surface area is everything, and the larger the
piece of charcoal, the less effective it is. You may want to hammer on
some of the larger pieces of charcoal to reduce their size.


it's being used at the moment.


I'm just using charcoal from a wood stove, and a barbecue, It's slow,
but Rome wasn't built in a day.


right. if i gradually smash and break
up the pieces over the course of a few
years then the end is still accomplished.
the carbon is largely sequestered and
acting as a substrate for all sorts of
other interesting things.


to do a measured proportion test plot
would take a lot of separation and then
remixing. if i were to go that far i'd
have to grind it up too. all in good
fun if i had an old chipper or meat
grinder around to encourage into more
decreptitude... but at the moment i
see little movement towards such
happenings. i'm so far behind in
weeding all my extra time is going to
keeping the new patches going and getting
caught up.

Amen, sister, Amen.


coming along slowly. chiropractor is
getting me untwisted from last fall's
raking. i could go all summer last year
hauling tons of materials and have very
few back troubles, many hours of digging,
etc. a few aches but nothing major.
a half hour of raking and i was scrod.
finally gave in beginning of June and
started seeing if something could help.
so far it is helping so we'll see how
it continues. cutting into my gardening
time though. grr!


Yoga is good.


in fun reading lately:

_Long for this World, the strange
science of imortality_ by Jonathan Weiner.


This would be the other Wiener?


o.s.c.a.r. ha, j/k, interesting
read. i've moved on to Socrates/Plato
for the nonce.

If your too careful, you'll miss the humor in them.



interesting read, much somewhat familiar
to me from general science reading.

Immortality?! (shock, shudder) What if leaves were immortal? We'd be up
to our necks in ancient detritus.


if there weren't worms, fungi, bacteria
and mechanical forces they would be quite
a pile, but there would be plenty of other
stuff too (wood, dead organisms, bones, etc).


The anthem, here at Camp Runamuck, is "Thank Heaven, I'm not Young
Anymore", closely followed by "Ah yes, I Remember It Well".
http://www.rhapsody.com/#/artist/the...um/gigi-origin
al-motion-picture-soundtrack
These are only snippets, but you'll get the drift.

i'm looking forwards to gnawing through the
resources and reading list in the back on the
rainy days.

next up is Darwin's classic _Vegetable
Mould and Earth-Worms_. 1888 edition,
still in very nice condition. i know i
won't look as good at 123 years.


Taxidermy is your friend ;O)


it was a quick read, some of it
interesting.


My main reading material (by my bed, not the one in the bathroom [The
Great Derangement by Matt Taibbi]) is Animal Factory: The Looming Threat
of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the
Environment by David Kirby
Kirby has a novelist's style of writing, which makes it easy to read,
and the first 3 chapters are brief biographies of 3 people's run ins
with CAFO pork producers. There is enough Sturm und Drang in it for
anyone.


my previous readings on this topic leave
me no doubt that it's a time-bomb. i have
no idea how regulators, government agricultural
folks, agricultural scientists at the universities,
etc can be so blase' about the whole mess.
complacency may do many more us in.

It's the usual suspects greed and avarice.


Billy rolling over now to stare at the stars.

You know that we are stardust? Except for hydrogen, all the other
elements were made in stars. It's a marvelous place that we live in.
How far away is that star, or that star? How far away determines when
you are seeing it, and the further away it is, the faster it is moving
away from us. Earth is about 5.7 billion years old, but our kind have
only been around about 2 million years (3.50877e-5ths of it's
existence.)

fireflies are going gonzo now here so those
are the stars i see.

I've only seen them once, and it was a magical time.


songbird

--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #12   Report Post  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:15 PM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:

....
You know that we are stardust? Except for hydrogen, all the other
elements were made in stars. It's a marvelous place that we live in.
How far away is that star, or that star? How far away determines when
you are seeing it, and the further away it is, the faster it is moving
away from us. Earth is about 5.7 billion years old, but our kind have
only been around about 2 million years (3.50877e-5ths of it's
existence.)


yeah, and we are perhaps the only
critter within vast chunks of space
that actually knows this and yet we
are still stupid enough to pollute our
food, water and shelter.


fireflies are going gonzo now here so those
are the stars i see.


I've only seen them once, and it was a magical time.


i wish a movie could do it justice.

years ago when i lived in TN there was
talk of fireflies that synchronised their
flashes. i never did get to see them.


songbird
  #13   Report Post  
Old 10-12-2011, 06:18 AM posted to rec.gardens
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default making charcoal and testing the results in clay

songbird wrote:

...about making charcoal and testing the
results when mixed with clay...

nothing failed to sprout, there was some
difference in height of the buckwheat and
the green beans, but that didn't make any
difference longer term.

by the end of the season it all looked
the same height as the surrounding plants
that weren't growing in the test strips.

a few days ago a friend dropped off
fourteen bags of shredded leaves and i had
no place to bury them except the trench i
keep going for discarding miscellaneous
organic materials (of the non-weedseedy
kind). it was about a third full, in
they went in layers with dirt.

the back part of this garden is where i'd
buried the charcoal and soil mix for testing
so that also was excavated and spread into
a wider area to benefit the heavy clay soil.

the major improvement is to the texture of
the soil. it is much easier to dig, move
and the charcoal makes it come off the shovel
instead of sticking to it. i'd add it for
that reason alone if it harms nothing else.

along with the layers of leaves and soil
i turned in some of the green cover crop
(mixed perennial legumes) as an added nitrogen
source and that along with the roots from
the buckwheat will be a great help. next
spring, a few weeks before planting, i'll
give it another stir to see how it goes.


songbird
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Q: Impact on soil (charcoal ashes and mothball) JKC Texas 1 22-08-2005 04:44 AM
Japanese anemone's, charcoal blister beetles and a long ramble madgardener Gardening 4 20-07-2004 09:02 AM
plants, tannins, and charcoal (oh my!) HDH Freshwater Aquaria Plants 5 20-04-2003 07:26 AM
plants, tannins, and charcoal (oh my!) HDH Freshwater Aquaria Plants 5 07-04-2003 08:56 PM
Clay Clay and More Clay BTInternet News United Kingdom 0 19-03-2003 10:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017