Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length
and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop,
usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length.
500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot
hose.

Prove it.

You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure
and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when
there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases...
fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every
sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were
you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when
unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure...
all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.

The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of
water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the
water and the pressure will decrease.

Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can
"increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks
and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant
and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the
pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive.

My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not
increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on
the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore
pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed
at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to
maintain that pressure for really long runs.

One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for
yourself.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length
and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop,
usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length.
500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot
hose.

Prove it.

You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure
and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when
there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases...
fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every
sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were
you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when
unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure...
all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.

The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of
water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the
water and the pressure will decrease.

The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the
head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the
head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as
the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change.

Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can
"increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks
and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant
and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the
pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive.

My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not
increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on
the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore
pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed
at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to
maintain that pressure for really long runs.

One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for
yourself.

You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells,
not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with
a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well
maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains
pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you
remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what
you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not
the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if
you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning
eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures
affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand
creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter
tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping
length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this
exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a
pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the
end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed
far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to
irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have
two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers
12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops
delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only
occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I
sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever
else requires large volumes of water.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

It's gentler, to supply some reason, rather than flat
contradiction.

Lemme see whether I understand your point. Try this:

You're wrong, because you're a top-posting Mormon.

How'd I do?

On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.



it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"Bob F" wrote:

If you take a mile of hose, or one 50 foot length, what percentage
of the single hose water will get through the mile length, with the
same high volume source and hose diameter? 100%? You don't really
think so, do you?

I know from my experience that two hoses in series deliver
significantly less water than one. Now multiply that effect for a
500 foot hose.

For tapping beer from kegs, they even use the line length to drop
the pressure to avoid foaming. 3/16" beer line produces 2 psi drop
per foot at the flow of a normal tap.

You had better put down that sudz.. you don't know the difference
between pressure and volume.

I do. Do you?

Droping the pressure drops the volume. Dropping it evenly over the length of the
hose results in a good pour. The tap needs to be fully open, or foam results.

From http://forum.northernbrewer.com/view...php?f=3&t=3877

If you want higher or lower carbonation, remember to adjust your beer hose
length one foot for each 2 psi. Otherwise you'll get foam when you pour.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length
and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop,
usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length.
500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot
hose.

Prove it.

You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure
and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when
there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases...
fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every
sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were
you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when
unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure...
all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.

Too bad you're wrong. As water moves through a pipe, the sides of the pipe cause
friction, resulting in pressure loss. The longer the pipe and larger the speed
of the water through the pipe, the more pressure loss, so less water gets pushed
out the end of a longer pipe. That's why they use larger pipes for longer runs.
The larger pipe reduces the pressure losses, so you can get the desired volume
out of the longer pipe.

Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.



it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose.

Bob F wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.



it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden
hose.

I used 1" PVC for my home sprinkler system, even though it's way less than 500
feet on any zone. That way I get sufficient water to every sprinkler, and each
head gets similar pressure. Using smaller pipe would lose those advantages when
supplying hagh volume heads.

On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to
accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_loc_locations.htm

SMS wrote:
On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of
how to accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_loc_locations.htm

And don't buy the thin stuff if you want it to last. PVC comes in two grades.

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length
and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop,
usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length.
500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot
hose.

Prove it.

You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure
and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when
there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases...
fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every
sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were
you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when
unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure...
all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.

The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of
water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the
water and the pressure will decrease.

The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the
head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the
head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as
the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change.

Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can
"increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks
and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant
and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the
pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive.

My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not
increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on
the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore
pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed
at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to
maintain that pressure for really long runs.

One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for
yourself.

You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells,
not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with
a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well
maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains
pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you
remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what
you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not
the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if
you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning
eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures
affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand
creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter
tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping
length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this
exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a
pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the
end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed
far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to
irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have
two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers
12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops
delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only
occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I
sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever
else requires large volumes of water.

True only if the tail is lower than the head. For gravity fed drip
irrigation what you say is true. However, most cases the person will be
standing at the end of the line two or three feet higher to water the
plants. I have run the water hoses for long distances and it can be done.
However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise
the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does
lack pressure.

The Original Poster wanted Taps at the end for watering plants. But like
many Posters the OP rarely responds back for feedback.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
SMS wrote:

On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to
accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_loc_locations.htm

My local irrigation supply house tends to be on the spendy side compared
to the HD, and HD sells 20 ft. lengths.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while.

I have black polypipe that's been in the sunlight for up to 20 years. The
biggest danger to my black polypipe has been from my garden fork and frost
popping the connectors off.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of
fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths,
and the tubing is relatively rigid.

White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried.


The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may
work, but not sure how UV resistant it is.

Most Pex is easily damaged by UV.


They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit,
which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for
outdoor water.

It's not rated for that.

Which brings us back to black poly pipe.

Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has
been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some
other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black
polypipe hadn't made it to US.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Yeah, and that also describes my prostate.

LOL.