"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
...
On 6/29/11 11:21 PM, FarmI wrote:
"Dean wrote in message
...

I wonder if you could find some used hand move sprinkler line. The
stuff I'm thinking of is 4" aluminum and has a coupler for a sprinkler
at
each joint. It usually came in 30' or 40' sections.
You could just pull it apart to drain it or put a valve at a joint
now and then.
One drawback might be its temptation to thieves.

Good Lord. That stuff would now have antique value wouldn't it Dean?


I've never heard of anyone collecting it.

Nah, neither have I, but farmers tend to get attached to stuff that's been
sitting in their PUS pile for years and the value increases in leaps and
bounds when someone else might want it.

Old tractors and
farm equipment , old cars and barb wire, yes. A former co worker told me
people collect the insulators used on the old overhead phone lines.

:-)) I have a few of those. I also have a few old rabbit traps that I've
foudn round the paddocks over time.

The scrap value of used aluminum pipe might be pretty high. Many
farmers in my area went to pivot irrigation so scrapped their irrigation
pipe. No one much cared for hand move sprinkler line. It was just too
labor intensive. My Dad had some. He also had "volunteers" to help move
it.

You didn't step back fast enough did you ;-))

"Nad R" wrote in message

However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise
the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does
lack pressure.

If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these:
http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html

The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles.
The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful.
Here's another variant:
http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/

On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote:
"Bob wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of
fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths,
and the tubing is relatively rigid.

White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried.


The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may
work, but not sure how UV resistant it is.

Most Pex is easily damaged by UV.


They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit,
which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for
outdoor water.

It's not rated for that.

Which brings us back to black poly pipe.

Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has
been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some
other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black
polypipe hadn't made it to US.



Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what
my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the
water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried
pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move
when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub
a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a
plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the
pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible.

TDD

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message

However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise
the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does
lack pressure.

If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these:
http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html

The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles.
The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful.
Here's another variant:
http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/

That is something I did not believe existed. I will look for a local
version first.
Thank for the information on that. The soaker hoses are nice but have their
limitations.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while.

I have black polypipe that's been in the sunlight for up to 20 years. The
biggest danger to my black polypipe has been from my garden fork and frost
popping the connectors off.


quoteBlack HDPE pipe containing 2 to 2.5% carbon black can be safely
stored outside in the sun without damage from UV exposure. /quote
source: http://www.polymoldproducts.com/PE_PIPES.htm

Some poly pipe can take it and some apparently can not.

On Jun 30, 9:12*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

Why not? *Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter
matters.

Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch and
watering relies on flow, which needs pressure. Again we a discussing
this without the needed information. Rise? Drop? initial pressure?

Harry K

On Jun 29, 9:21*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message

...





On 6/29/11 6:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:
I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, *two
acres
of which are cleared and developed. *I have areas away from the house
area
in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. *Ideally,
I
would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400
feet away from the house.

I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of *"T's" * add
several branches *(hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas.
But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it
all
seems so *"temporary."

I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about
500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of
the
current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? *(The
main
line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). * *Whatever I
use,
I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could
get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something.

Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas of how
to
accomplish what I am trying to do ?

thanks *!!

James

* * I wonder if you could find some used hand move sprinkler line. The
stuff I'm thinking of is 4" aluminum and has a coupler for a sprinkler at
each joint. * It usually came in *30' or 40' sections.
* You could just pull it apart to drain it or put a valve at a joint
now and then.
* One drawback might be its temptation to thieves.

Good Lord. *That stuff would now have antique value wouldn't it Dean?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Used all the time in farm irrigation. Also in the recycling business
- very popular with the midnight recyclers.

Harry K

On Jun 30, 4:50*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of
fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths,
and the tubing is relatively rigid.

The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may
work, but not sure how UV resistant it is.

They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit,
which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for
outdoor water.

As to winter, may be able to to blow it out with compressed
air, and leave it dry.


I laid a "temporary line" some 200 ft with a 50' side branch with
mostly 3/4" PVC (white) on top of the ground to water newly planted
trees in 1977. Pulled it about 15 years later. Had a few leaks each
spring but fittings are very cheap and patching is nothing but a
hacksaw and tube of glue. Currently using pieces of that same pipe
for another 'temporary' line to bypass a busted frost free hydrant
(can't replace without digging through a mass of tree roots). That
lien is also above ground and only needed one patch this spring
(usually there are several). Line has been in place over 10 years.

Harry K

On 6/30/2011 11:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.



it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose.



OR you could use a larger garden hose. duh.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, SMS
wrote:

On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to
accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause
lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by
machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells
tubing in spools of several hundred feet. You can buy 300' rolls of
1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...ef=pd_sim_ol_2

Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:43:15 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length
and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop,
usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length.
500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot
hose.

Prove it.

You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure
and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when
there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases...
fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every
sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were
you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when
unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure...
all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.

The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of
water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the
water and the pressure will decrease.

The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the
head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the
head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as
the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change.

Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can
"increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks
and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant
and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the
pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive.

My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not
increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on
the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore
pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed
at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to
maintain that pressure for really long runs.

One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for
yourself.

You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells,
not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with
a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well
maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains
pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you
remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what
you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not
the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if
you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning
eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures
affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand
creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter
tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping
length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this
exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a
pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the
end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed
far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to
irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have
two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers
12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops
delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only
occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I
sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever
else requires large volumes of water.

True only if the tail is lower than the head. For gravity fed drip
irrigation what you say is true. However, most cases the person will be
standing at the end of the line two or three feet higher to water the
plants. I have run the water hoses for long distances and it can be done.
However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise
the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does
lack pressure.

Raising a few feet, say 12' to an upstairs toilet, there'll be no
noticable difference but when running pipe outdoors, depending on
terrain, lift can easily change 50', 100' and more... that can make a
big difference on what kind of pump is needed... pumps are rated by
lift... even those old fahioned hand pumps are typically rated at like
20' lift. This one will raise water 23' max:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...duct_5846_5846

With electric and gas/diesel engine pumps price raises drastically as
water lift raises... my friend in Idaho learned this the hard way, he
laid over a mile of piping all over his property before ever checking
out pumps... naturally his pond was at the lowest point. As I said,
in the end he abandoned his pumping idea and followed my
recommendation to haul water. He alkready had a small tractor and
cart. At first he didn't take my recomendation to use buckets so he
bought a 250 gallon poly tank, the largest he could fit in his cart.
He didn't consider the weight of water and nearly ruined his cart the
first time he started to fill that tank... a gallon of water is about
8 pounds, you do the math.

The Original Poster wanted Taps at the end for watering plants. But like
many Posters the OP rarely responds back for feedback.

Will likely never hear from that poster again... lots of new large
property owners think exactly the same thing, they are going to pipe
their irrigation water... just won't work unless one spends a LOT of
bucks. Originally I thought I would pipe water but fortunately all I
did was buy ten 100' lengths of 5/8" Swan garden hose... first time I
charged just three lenghts and tried to drag it about I knew I ****ed
up, could give ya a hernia. But that hose was on sale at Lowe's for
$10 each and ten years later I'm still using that hose, some is on my
hose reels, so no loss. I even have two lengths still unused. Each
length came with one of those multi-spray nozzles, cheapo plastic, all
are shit canned... ever you buy a nozzle be sure it's metal.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 19:31:53 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of
fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths,
and the tubing is relatively rigid.

White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried.


The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may
work, but not sure how UV resistant it is.

Most Pex is easily damaged by UV.


They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit,
which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for
outdoor water.

It's not rated for that.

Which brings us back to black poly pipe.

Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has
been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some
other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black
polypipe hadn't made it to US.

Plenty black poly in the US, used for about every automatic sprinkler
system... but in most all cases it's completely buried so UV is not a
problem.

On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 06:10:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote:
"Bob wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So,
what you use should be UV resistant.

White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of
fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths,
and the tubing is relatively rigid.

White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried.


The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may
work, but not sure how UV resistant it is.

Most Pex is easily damaged by UV.


They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit,
which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for
outdoor water.

It's not rated for that.

Which brings us back to black poly pipe.

Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has
been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some
other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black
polypipe hadn't made it to US.



Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what
my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the
water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried
pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move
when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub
a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a
plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the
pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible.

I never heard of buried poly moving from being pressurized... perhaps
your system was prone to air locks, which is easy to eliminate by
installing a simple device that cushions the system. Anyone
installing an irrigation system from their domestic water needs to
install an anti backflow valve or they are looking for big trouble.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jun 30, 9:12*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

Why not? *Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter
matters.

Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch.

A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature?
Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in
typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation
tubing. Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause
turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the
very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting
a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters
would use something else. I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to
water their garden. However gals like fire fighters watering their
gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and
high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage
in their drawers. LOL-LOL

In article ,
"James Nipper" wrote:

I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, two acres
of which are cleared and developed. I have areas away from the house area
in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. Ideally, I
would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400
feet away from the house.

I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of "T's" add
several branches (hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas.
But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it all
seems so "temporary."

I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about
500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the
current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main
line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use,
I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could
get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something.

Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to
accomplish what I am trying to do ?

thanks !!

James

Use drip irrigation!

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug