Best ground cover to walk on?
 

We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is now
4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along the curb
there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be better
than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:01:27 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is now
4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along the curb
there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be better
than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.


In NYC unless you first enclose that space with a heavy gauge wrought
iron fence you're wasting your time.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On 7/14/11 7:01 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is now
4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along the curb
there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be better
than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

I think the preferred term is "tree well", not "tree pit".

Any ground cover will freeze in the winter. Walking on it then will
leave dead patches the size and shape of shoe prints.

Consider a tree grate. This would be two open-work steel or iron panels
that lie flat on the ground over the tree well. Where they meet, they
form a hole for the trunk of the tree.

Tree grates are not fastened into place. They can be lifted to work on
underground utilities running in the area. They might need replacement
as the tree outgrows the hole for the trunk.

With a tree grate, you have two choices:
* You can fill the spaces in the grate with coarse sand, bringing the
soil surface to the height of the top of the grate. This prevents
someone walking over the tree well from tripping. But it is not
attractive.
* You can plant a ground cover in the spaces. The grate will protect
the bottom inch or so of each plant from damage when someone walks there
in the winter. But this is quite a hazard for a woman in high heels.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

this site is very useful for me...

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:18:07 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

In NYC unless you first enclose that space with a heavy gauge wrought
iron fence you're wasting your time.

Iron hoops were installed on three sides by the neighbor I share the pit
with. There are none on the street side, allowing doors to open.

Don http://foragingpictures.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011, "David E. Ross" wrote:

I think the preferred term is "tree well", not "tree pit".

Never heard tree well used around here. It is not lower then the sidewalk.
Often they are slightly higher.

Any ground cover will freeze in the winter. Walking on it then will
leave dead patches the size and shape of shoe prints.

Well, if there is a lot of snow there will be snow banks along the side and
people will have to get out the other side of the car. We could
intentionally pile a lot of snow into the pit to discourage stepping into
it. As long as the honey locust and any plants underneath don't mind wet
feet.

And with global warming we will have less time when it is below freezing at
the times people would be using their cars.

Consider a tree grate.

Thanks for the suggestion, but no. Remember I have nine feet along the
curb. The new large size is to capture more rain water and have less run
into the sewers.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:36:36 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:18:07 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

In NYC unless you first enclose that space with a heavy gauge wrought
iron fence you're wasting your time.

Iron hoops were installed on three sides by the neighbor I share the pit
with. There are none on the street side, allowing doors to open.

If car doors open onto that area so people can disembark and step
there then just how long do you think anything you plant there will
last? Perhaps you need to consider planting pavers.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

Don Wiss wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

I think the preferred term is "tree well", not "tree pit".

Never heard tree well used around here. It is not lower then the sidewalk.
Often they are slightly higher.

If it's not lower than the sidewalk then why do you keep refering to
that area as a "pit"? I think you need to post a photograph depicting
the entire area so everyone can see what you're talking about. I
lived in NYC for many years and I know that every curbside planting
area presents a different situation. You haven't really given a
description, you've not mentioned whether it's a business or
residential situation, or who is responsible for its care... you
haven't even said if it's in full sun, part shade, or full shade, and
what kind of soil, which are very important considerations for
suggesting a ground cover planting.

We could intentionally pile a lot of snow into the _pit_
to discourage stepping into it.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is
now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along
the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be
better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that will look
good all year round and many that will never look very good. Pave it.

David

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On 7/14/11 3:00 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is
now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along
the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be
better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that will look
good all year round and many that will never look very good. Pave it.

David


Don't pave it. Eventually, the tree will outgrow its hole in the
paving. Furthermore, rain and snow will run off and not irrigate the
tree; and tree roots might suffer from a lack of oxygen in the soil.

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the area or
from ensnaring someone's shoes.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/11 3:00 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is
now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along
the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me
that myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which
would be better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the
curb.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that will
look good all year round and many that will never look very good.
Pave it.

David


Don't pave it. Eventually, the tree will outgrow its hole in the
paving. Furthermore, rain and snow will run off and not irrigate the
tree; and tree roots might suffer from a lack of oxygen in the soil.

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the area
or from ensnaring someone's shoes.

Better.

D

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is
now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along
the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me
that myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which
would be better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the
curb.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that will
look good all year round and many that will never look very good.
Pave it.

Don't pave it. Eventually, the tree will outgrow its hole in the
paving. Furthermore, rain and snow will run off and not irrigate the
tree; and tree roots might suffer from a lack of oxygen in the soil.

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the area
or from ensnaring someone's shoes.

Better.

WTF are you... Mr. Good Houskeeping... how presumptuous that you think
anyone needs your seal of approval. What a pompous pontificating know
nothing.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is
now 4-1/2 x 9 feet.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be
better than pachysandra.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that will look
good all year round and many that will never look very good. Pave it.

People will not be often walking on it. If they were, I would not have been
asking about a ground cover. People are taking this way beyond my question.

I can't pave it. As I wrote there is a standard tree pit size and I can't
reduce it.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:06:22 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

If it's not lower than the sidewalk then why do you keep refering to
that area as a "pit"?

Because that it what they are called around here. See the official
instructions on caring for it:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_..._pit_care.html

I think you need to post a photograph depicting
the entire area so everyone can see what you're talking about.

Okay. Here it is: http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/treepit.jpg

The hoops are new. Right now the soil is compacted from the people walking
on it pre-hoops. I need to loosen it up. And I have a bag of Sweet Peet
that I will add.

I
lived in NYC for many years and I know that every curbside planting
area presents a different situation. You haven't really given a
description, you've not mentioned whether it's a business or
residential situation,

Residential with low parking turnover. And on the car's passenger side.

or who is responsible for its care...

That's between me and the neighbor that I share the pit with. We both have
hoses out front and we both garden. But I am usually home and they are
usually not.

you
haven't even said if it's in full sun, part shade, or full shade, and
what kind of soil, which are very important considerations for
suggesting a ground cover planting.

It gets morning sun. Sometimes filtered through a honey locust tree.

Don. http://paleofood.com/kitchen-equipment.htm (e-mail at page bottom).

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

"Don Wiss" wrote in message
...
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size is now
4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet along the curb
there will be people getting out of cars and into the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me that
myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which would be better
than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the curb.

Not knowing the lcimate of NYC, I wonder if various thymes (golden normal
old domestic, lemon etc) might work? Makes a nice scent when stepped on, is
fairly tough IME and won't catch feet ankles like periwinkle or ivy would.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011, "David E. Ross" wrote:

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the area or
from ensnaring someone's shoes.

What might make sense is some stepping stones. Most of the people parking
here live around here, and they aren't going to deliberately want to trash
a pretty tree pit.

Don. http://www.donwiss.com/pictures/ (e-mail link at page bottoms).

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 06:49:56 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:06:22 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

If it's not lower than the sidewalk then why do you keep refering to
that area as a "pit"?

Because that it what they are called around here. See the official
instructions on caring for it:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_..._pit_care.html

I think you need to post a photograph depicting
the entire area so everyone can see what you're talking about.

Okay. Here it is: http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/treepit.jpg

The hoops are new. Right now the soil is compacted from the people walking
on it pre-hoops. I need to loosen it up. And I have a bag of Sweet Peet
that I will add.

I
lived in NYC for many years and I know that every curbside planting
area presents a different situation. You haven't really given a
description, you've not mentioned whether it's a business or
residential situation,

Residential with low parking turnover. And on the car's passenger side.

or who is responsible for its care...

That's between me and the neighbor that I share the pit with. We both have
hoses out front and we both garden. But I am usually home and they are
usually not.

you
haven't even said if it's in full sun, part shade, or full shade, and
what kind of soil, which are very important considerations for
suggesting a ground cover planting.

It gets morning sun. Sometimes filtered through a honey locust tree.

If you have those hoops on three sides I honestly don't see the point
in not having the hoops at the curb as well... anyone opening a car
door will exit and then have to step over to exit the area anyway, and
anything planted there will get trampled regardless... and anyone
stepping over those hoops will have a good chance of tripping,
falling, and getting seriously hurt... there will be a law suit...
it's NYC ya know.

I know that you have something else in mind but I'd fill in that
entire area with paving block (making sure it's flat and even with the
concrete so no one trips) leaving a good sized opening for that
sapling to grow and filling it with mulch if desired... blocks can be
removed to enlarge the opening at a later date as the tree grows. I
would also set in a wrought iron tree guard or that puny tree won't
stand a chance... have an iron shop make one about six feet tall with
spikes on top so that it's not climbable (it's NYC). I'd find a
couple of heavy concrete planters to set out on the blocks and fill
them with annuals each spring and remove them to storage prior to each
winter. I would definitely get rid of those hoops (NOW) or someone is
going to own you... I'm surprised the City of NY hasn't directed you
to remove those hoops and cited you for creating a dangerous nuisance.
Even pedestrians just strolling on the sidewalk are apt not to see
those fercocktah hoops, especially at night.

http://www.wroughtironconcept.com/wr...w=three_guards

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

Don Wiss wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate.

That could work okay in your backyard, but on the streets of NYC those
stones are an attractive nuisance, they're great for smashing windows.

Most of the people parking here live around here, and they aren't going to
deliberately want to trash a pretty tree pit.

How naive... you're obviously new to NYC. Just wait until a group of
boozers/druggies come staggering by at 3AM.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 06:49:56 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:06:22 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

If it's not lower than the sidewalk then why do you keep refering to
that area as a "pit"?

Because that it what they are called around here. See the official
instructions on caring for it:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_..._greenstreets/
tree_care_tips/tree_pit_care.html


Those official instructions recommend ground covers, including:
- Spotted Deadnettle Lamium maculatum (Excellent groundcover)
- Foam Flower Tiarella cordifolia(Vigorous groundcover with white
upright flowers)

Presumably these have been tested and found satisfactory in NYC tree
pits, why not go with one of them?

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

On 15 Jul 2011 19:45:00 GMT, Glen Walpert wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 06:49:56 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:06:22 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

If it's not lower than the sidewalk then why do you keep refering to
that area as a "pit"?

Because that it what they are called around here. See the official
instructions on caring for it:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_..._greenstreets/
tree_care_tips/tree_pit_care.html


Those official instructions recommend ground covers, including:
- Spotted Deadnettle Lamium maculatum (Excellent groundcover)
- Foam Flower Tiarella cordifolia(Vigorous groundcover with white
upright flowers)

Presumably these have been tested and found satisfactory in NYC tree
pits, why not go with one of them?

Oh, geeze... go know... there are official instructions. By all means
go with the oafficial instructions, why ask us dummies.

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size
is now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet
along the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into
the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me
that myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which
would be better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the
curb.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that
will look good all year round and many that will never look very
good. Pave it.

Don't pave it. Eventually, the tree will outgrow its hole in the
paving. Furthermore, rain and snow will run off and not irrigate
the tree; and tree roots might suffer from a lack of oxygen in the
soil.

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the
area or from ensnaring someone's shoes.

Better.

WTF are you... Mr. Good Houskeeping... how presumptuous that you think
anyone needs your seal of approval. What a pompous pontificating know
nothing.

What has saying to DER that I like his idea better than mine got to do with
housekeeping?

As for being a know nothing we have been head to head on several occasions
over some of your more foolish remarks and you are yet to get a score on the
board. Why don't you grow up and find some other way to get your jollies
instead of insulting people you have never met.

D

Best ground cover to walk on?
 

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
We have a new street tree in front. NYC's standard tree pit size
is now 4-1/2 x 9 feet. It is right along the curb. With nine feet
along the curb there will be people getting out of cars and into
the pit.

So what ground cover can take this the best? It would seem to me
that myrtle/perrywinkle would be better than English ivy, which
would be better than pachysandra.

Other plants (e.g. spring bulbs) could be added further from the
curb.

If people are going to walk on it often then there is none that
will look good all year round and many that will never look very
good. Pave it.

Don't pave it. Eventually, the tree will outgrow its hole in the
paving. Furthermore, rain and snow will run off and not irrigate
the tree; and tree roots might suffer from a lack of oxygen in the
soil.

Consider pea gravel, coarser gravel, or rounded river stones. These
just lie on the soil and allow water and air to penetrate. Another
alternative is unmortared bricks in a basket-weave or herringbone
pattern. All of these prevent mud from being tracked out of the
area or from ensnaring someone's shoes.

Better.

WTF are you... Mr. Good Houskeeping... how presumptuous that you think
anyone needs your seal of approval. What a pompous pontificating know
nothing.

What has saying to DER that I like his idea better than mine got to do with
housekeeping?

As for being a know nothing we have been head to head on several occasions
over some of your more foolish remarks and you are yet to get a score on the
board. Why don't you grow up and find some other way to get your jollies
instead of insulting people you have never met.

D

Good luck, David, but I'm afraid that Shelly is dumber than your smarts.
He is a self made fool, and probably a drunk, meaning that he is under
some sort of protection from the All Mighty.
--
- Billy
America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/

You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it would take. Just once.