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Old 15-08-2011, 10:24 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

I'd like to try and see it CAN be done, but looking for advice from someone who has done it.

I have a nice 400w HPS and MH lamp and a great place to grow -- would like to try some tomatoes indoors this winter.

Specifically, what I'd really like to know are the easiest varieties for these these conditions -- something medium size, not timy tim's or any cherry tomatoes.

Any help? Thank you.
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Old 15-08-2011, 11:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

mkr5000 wrote:
I'd like to try and see it CAN be done, but looking for advice from
someone who has done it.

I have a nice 400w HPS and MH lamp and a great place to grow --
would like to try some tomatoes indoors this winter.

Specifically, what I'd really like to know are the easiest
varieties for these these conditions -- something medium size, not
timy tim's or any cherry tomatoes.

Any help? Thank you.



Look for a variety called "Patio". Good luck, you'll need it. :-)

-Bob
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Old 16-08-2011, 08:40 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

Thanks Bob -- that bad huh?
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Old 17-08-2011, 12:02 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

mkr5000 wrote:
Thanks Bob -- that bad huh?


The environment inside a house in winter is very much different compared to
outside in the summer. Humans adapt by adding/shedding clothes and your
eyes adapt to the light conditions. You have to get the temperature high
enough as well as getting enough light. Also many bugs, fungi and other
pests thrive indoors. It is going to be a challenge if you want good fruit
and probably consume quite a bit of electricity.

D


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Old 17-08-2011, 07:08 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

mkr5000 wrote:
I'd like to try and see it CAN be done, but looking for advice from
someone who has done it.

I have a nice 400w HPS and MH lamp and a great place to grow -- would
like to try some tomatoes indoors this winter.

Specifically, what I'd really like to know are the easiest varieties for
these these conditions -- something medium size, not timy tim's or any cherry tomatoes.

Any help? Thank you.


I tried bringing plants in from outside, hot peppers, disaster, the bugs
also came in.

Greg


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Old 17-08-2011, 07:08 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

mkr5000 wrote:
I'd like to try and see it CAN be done, but looking for advice from
someone who has done it.

I have a nice 400w HPS and MH lamp and a great place to grow -- would
like to try some tomatoes indoors this winter.

Specifically, what I'd really like to know are the easiest varieties for
these these conditions -- something medium size, not timy tim's or any cherry tomatoes.

Any help? Thank you.


I know somebody who grew hydroponic tomatoes in basement. Was going to do
it commercially, but never did. Some spices and herbs might be more
profitable.
CFLsI will work on most plants, with the lamps near the plants.

Greg
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Old 17-08-2011, 08:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)


"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
mkr5000 wrote:
Thanks Bob -- that bad huh?


The environment inside a house in winter is very much different compared
to outside in the summer. Humans adapt by adding/shedding clothes and
your eyes adapt to the light conditions. You have to get the temperature
high enough as well as getting enough light. Also many bugs, fungi and
other pests thrive indoors. It is going to be a challenge if you want
good fruit and probably consume quite a bit of electricity.

D


Grow some marijuana to go with it. It is much more profitable, and even if
the tomatos don't turn out right, you won't care. ;-) Lots of states are
allowing now for home growers. And if you already have the stuff
......................

PS: The secret is getting good seeds. Or so I have been
told...............

Steve


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Old 17-08-2011, 10:09 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

Let me ask something else then.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to build a greenhouse this fall, something small but it will get plenty of light.

You said Patio is a good variety for indoors -- what are varieties that are well suited for a greenhouse?
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Old 18-08-2011, 04:17 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

On Aug 15, 1:24 pm, mkr5000 wrote:
I'd like to try and see it CAN be done, but looking for advice from someone who has done it.

I have a nice 400w HPS and MH lamp and a great place to grow -- would like to try some tomatoes indoors this winter.

Specifically, what I'd really like to know are the easiest varieties for these these conditions -- something medium size, not timy tim's or any cherry tomatoes.

Any help? Thank you.


There are some very interesting comments so far but no, growing
indoors under lights is not difficult. Bit more involved than
sticking a plant in the ground and watering it. Actually much easier
when you have actually run a crop or two under the system and
understand the requirements. You have to know your plant and the
environment. In a previous post I recommended Dr H. Resh, he has
some good starter books on Hydro Toms that covers lighting. Much more
is available on the Internet. Take most w/ a grain of salt like you
would here, much is pure myth or growing Toms is often code for the
Pot Culture.

Look up the law of inverse square, 1/distance sq. It is important
for you to know and understand this. your 400 is good for an area ~
4x4ft @ a good plant height ~ 1 to 3 ft above your plant as it grows.
You need about 25w per sq ft where it will actually counts yet If the
back of your hand at plant height is hot… your too close. Move it upas
it grows. Best to try determinate vice indeterminate and have a good
support system.

Know watts, lumens & footcandles, They are the best we can equate
to plant needs for now. Pruning is good to get light to the inner
plant.

A GOOD fertilizer plan is also important, especially for an indoor
grow , You can certainly use "organoferts" ( inside joke there) but w/
some the smell is a bit much. Regardless, do think about what and how
to use a nutrient schedule. Its ignorant sense to pile up a bunch of
crap in a pot and hope all the essential elements will be available
for the plant to use when it need them.

As for dragging outside dirt inside? I never, never recommend it. If
soil is used at all find a good soil mix you can be reasonably
assured is pest free. Soilless is much better but a bit more than
most gardeners can wrap their head around or want to.

Ensure you have ventilation to dump waste heat and a fan to
strengthen the plant.

Of the two types you have, the HPS ( red spectrum) is the better, and
you really should use it when flowering. I've seen plants grow full
cycle just using the HPS. Watch for spindly plants w/ MH and again,
ensure you fertilize well but not excessive.

Understand the terms; day short, day neutral and day long, Go with
Day long (~ 12-16 hrs a day)light when the plants start to come up to
a good height.


Cfl for flowering plants? Can be done, just not very well with the
little toy CFLs you buy at the local WalMart store. get around 85 w
( 300 equal)… then your talking. You have the Horsepower, use it.
yet

any other ???s....ask I will get back to ya with a real answer.
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Old 18-08-2011, 03:12 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

Wow -- thanks very much. I'm re-encouraged to try indoors -- besides, the learning process is a big part of it.

I'll get that book right away.



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Old 18-08-2011, 03:16 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

What about the pollinating part? Do some varieties (Patio for example) self pollinate?

Can a gentle fan breeze help pollination or do the trick?
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Old 18-08-2011, 03:35 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

Gunner wrote:
....
any other ???s....ask I will get back to ya with a real answer.


yes, how much do those tomatoes cost per pound.


songbird
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Old 18-08-2011, 11:50 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

mkr5000 wrote:
What about the pollinating part? Do some varieties (Patio for
example) self pollinate?

Can a gentle fan breeze help pollination or do the trick?


Tomatos are wind pollinated, you may need to shake the plants.

D
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Old 19-08-2011, 08:08 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

On Aug 18, 6:35 am, songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:

...

any other ???s....ask I will get back to ya with a real answer.


yes, how much do those tomatoes cost per pound.

songbird


I don’t know… how many fingers am I holding up, Bird? Still trying to
make a billy salad with all those apples and oranges you guys have
left over.

I wouldn’t know how much it will cost him to grow his tomatoes, now
would I? I am not the clairvoyant Shamanista. Now we both know this
is the same propaganda trick billy uses all the time. it’s almost
like your birds of a feather . Now I don’t think you’re really
wanting an answer but let’s run with this for a bit and see where it
goes.

If you are looking for the cost of electricity for a 400w light, my
monthly cost for a 400w @ 14 hrs a day is ~ $18 a month. If you want
to cost lighting for a specific project and you know what your
paying :try http://www.sunlightsupply.com/t-faq.aspx or www.sunlightsupply..com
.... quest. 8.

BTW don’t know of many folks using lights in the summer , but for the
other 9 1/2 months of my growing season, it’s a small cost of having
a 12 month season or even for a season stretcher of 2-3 months and its
priceless. I use an 85 w. 6500k CFL or a pair of 10$ shop lights w/
some cool whites depending on the crop for starters, stagger them out
so there is a small cost there to stagger. Pumps are low energy, now
I do use a few air pumps @ 3-10 w ea. , a 100w aquarium heater for
one of the systems (much easier than heating the house) and 2 x 20”
box fans. Say 25-30$US a month in energy. but my energy cost is very
reasonable. Now my labor is less in my CEA than in dirt gardening.
so tit for tat. Your mileage however, may vary. If they are piping
in sunlight along with your electricity, your cost per unit could be
expensive and this would not be for you, especially for those unable
to get outside the billy et al mind set of one size fits all. Oh yea
my water costs are very low also, yet I don’t need but perhaps a 10th
of what you will waste. And it very good water, almost a neutral pH.
Real easy on a hydro system. But we are on the subject of lighting and
not hydro. Yet if you want to ask a specific question on hydroponics,
I will answer those ???s also

Don’t know what your supply costs are nor your labor, water, tools,
fertilizers, etc. Probably should include the gardens as a portion
of the mortgage? what do you figure is your cost per unit is, bird?
Throw out your figures and I will compare apples to apples w/ ya. As
a side interest how fast can you produce a crop? a quick little hydro
propaganda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhvnJpJu18c
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Old 20-08-2011, 12:58 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default Indoor Tomatoes (grow lights)

Gunner wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:

...

any other ???s....ask I will get back to ya with a real answer.


yes, how much do those tomatoes cost per pound.


I don’t know… how many fingers am I holding up, Bird? Still trying to
make a billy salad with all those apples and oranges you guys have
left over.


i'm holding up ten over the keyboard.


I wouldn’t know how much it will cost him to grow his tomatoes, now
would I? I am not the clairvoyant Shamanista. Now we both know this
is the same propaganda trick billy uses all the time. it’s almost
like your birds of a feather . Now I don’t think you’re really
wanting an answer but let’s run with this for a bit and see where it
goes.


no, i really do want an answer.

rough guessing, my costs for raising tomatoes this
year is about $0.10/lb, after considering the other
expenses and costs of canning i'd guess it at about
$0.20/lb.


If you are looking for the cost of electricity for a 400w light, my
monthly cost for a 400w @ 14 hrs a day is ~ $18 a month. If you want
to cost lighting for a specific project and you know what your
paying :try http://www.sunlightsupply.com/t-faq.aspx or www.sunlightsupply.com
... quest. 8.

BTW don’t know of many folks using lights in the summer , but for the
other 9 1/2 months of my growing season, it’s a small cost of having
a 12 month season or even for a season stretcher of 2-3 months and its
priceless. I use an 85 w. 6500k CFL or a pair of 10$ shop lights w/
some cool whites depending on the crop for starters, stagger them out
so there is a small cost there to stagger.


sure, some people use lights to start their crops early
and they use heating pads to keep the temperature good for
growing and they use fans to keep the air circulating and
they have to have extra heat if the space isn't normally
heated.

all of this adds to the costs of raising the crop and
all of this adds to the electrical demand that has to be
met somehow.

each of the lights and lightbulbs have to be manufactured
and then later disposed of. same with the fan, heating pads,
trays, etc.

if you are using a greenhouse that is a possible large
expense, if you are using a spare room in the house then
that means you have a larger house that you are building,
keeping up, paying for, etc.

so even more demand made upon the world's resources of
which some are renewable and others are not.

still i think it is a rather high cost compared to
having seeds and putting them in the ground at the
right time and then taking care of them.

the taste isn't comparable. so getting a worse
result for a higher price. that's making a lot
of sense (for the sellers of lights, greenhouses,
pumps, electricity, bigger houses, etc).


Pumps are low energy, now
I do use a few air pumps @ 3-10 w ea. , a 100w aquarium heater for
one of the systems (much easier than heating the house) and 2 x 20”
box fans. Say 25-30$US a month in energy. but my energy cost is very
reasonable.


lucky for you, but those costs are not accurate as
they are not covering accumulated environmental damage
(mercury poisoning, CO2, mining costs, habitat loss,
species extinctions, etc) or the coming effects of
losing 20something meters or more as the sea levels
rise (all around the world). that's millions of people
to move, all that infrastructure that will have to be
rebuilt or expanded. all that land that will no
longer be available for farming... trillions of
dollars wasted. people don't think of it that way
do they? all those highways built that will be
useless. all the subways flooded. cities lost.
buildings eroded away. it makes me shake my head
at the stupidity of it all.


Now my labor is less in my CEA than in dirt gardening.
so tit for tat. Your mileage however, may vary.


sure does. my labor for the tomato patches is very
minimal. five minutes of weeding a week, thirty
minutes to water when the rains aren't coming, a few
minutes a day scanning for worms, lately we are spending
more time picking than anything else.


If they are piping
in sunlight along with your electricity, your cost per unit could be
expensive and this would not be for you, especially for those unable
to get outside the billy et al mind set of one size fits all.


one size doesn't fit all, but my concern isn't about
size fitting but about environmental cost per unit
raised. that is the ultimate evaluation that must be
made. i'm not burning any extra electricity to get
this crop to harvest, i'm using locally generated
composts or materials that i'm getting for free or
growing green manures and using them on the gardens
so i'm not contributing to CO2 buildup for the crop
either.


Oh yea
my water costs are very low also, yet I don’t need but perhaps a 10th
of what you will waste. And it very good water, almost a neutral pH.
Real easy on a hydro system. But we are on the subject of lighting and
not hydro. Yet if you want to ask a specific question on hydroponics,
I will answer those ???s also


we have pretty good water here too. if i
ever get a chance to set up a rainwater catch
and gravity feed i'll do that too as it is
even better for the gardens and wouldn't need
any pumping.


Don’t know what your supply costs are nor your labor, water, tools,
fertilizers, etc.


no cost for fertilizer, labor is free as is my
time, water costs minimal, tools not much for those
most the time, i tend to buy the heavy duty kind
so something like my pruning sheers or the shovel
lasts ten or more years. the rest of various
costs are included in my estimate below.


Probably should include the gardens as a portion
of the mortgage? what do you figure is your cost per unit is, bird?
Throw out your figures and I will compare apples to apples w/ ya. As
a side interest how fast can you produce a crop? a quick little hydro
propaganda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhvnJpJu18c


i gave mine up top: $0.20/lb after canning.

the mortgage is not too bad, taxes suck but
it could be a lot worse, the house is small
so we don't have much for heat or cooling
expenses.

87120sq ft (2 acres), of which 600 is
tomatoes. we'll get anywhere from 200-600lbs
of tomatoes by the looks of it this season
(being conservative at the low end because
we've already picked over 100lbs already and
there is plenty more out there).

doing the quick math i come up with $55.09
including mortgage, taxes, electricity and
heat for the year. so to divy it up by
lb of tomato that comes in between $0.28
and $0.09 per lb. (which is pretty funny
considering my first guess of $0.20/lb was
a very quick guess). i could reduce that
instantly by 2/5 but i keep getting over-
ruled (i want to pay off the mortgage and
she doesn't ).

crop goes from planting to first harvest
in about 60-70 days and then will continue
producing for another 25-40 days -- of
course tapering off as the weather cools.
the last harvest will be green if i can
pick them before the frost damages them
(but i didn't include that amount in the
above total estimate anyways because they
need additional processing or ingredients
to put them up).

so i think that about covers it. long
day, bedtime...


songbird
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