hi all,
i am designing and creating a greenhouse for my A2 DT coursework, and wanted to get peoples views on anything that is irritating or unhelpful about current greenhouse models, and any additional features that could be added to greenhouses to make them easier to use, or to make flora growth or more efficient, or more inclusive.
the greenhouse is for a flat garden, with less than a 3 metre squared base area, however the greenhouse is going to fold together, similar to an airiing device for clothing, so that the space could be used for other activities rather than a permanent greenhouse. if anyone has any tips or thoughts about this, and any specific views or tips about gardening in small spaces, then comments would be much appreciated.

tomwhipps wrote:
hi all,
i am designing and creating a greenhouse for my A2 DT coursework, and
wanted to get peoples views on anything that is irritating or
unhelpful about current greenhouse models, and any additional
features that could be added to greenhouses to make them easier to
use, or to make flora growth or more efficient, or more inclusive.

This is slightly mysterious, I take it A2DT isn't an intelligent robot
shaped like a garbage tin so never mind but what it is that will be more
inclusive and why this is a good thing escapes me.

The main problem I see with current greenhouses is cost. Cheap ones don't
last and those that last are expensive. I begin to suspect that you will
not make this any better but in fact your collapsible version will be more
expensive than the same size that is fixed. Is that the case?

the greenhouse is for a flat garden, with less than a 3 metre squared
base area,

Do you mean 3 square metres or 3 metres square (ie 9 square metres)? Why
this size?

however the greenhouse is going to fold together, similar
to an airiing device for clothing,

I know several ways that airing frames fold up so this doesn't help much.
But it is collapsible, OK.

How big will it be folded and what will it weigh? How many people will it
take to fold/unfold/carry it? Will it have racks or benches inside? Will
these also collapse? Where will all the pots or trays full of earth go when
it is collapsed? Given the storage requirements for the components how much
space will actually be saved by collapsing it? I assume it will be covered
with flexible transparent polymer sheet, what will be the effect of
collapsing or erecting the structure on that sort of plastic over a period
of years?

so that the space could be used for
other activities rather than a permanent greenhouse.

Why would you go to this much trouble? When do you imagine it would be
folded and when unfolded? What climate would it be suitable for?

if anyone has any
tips or thoughts about this, and any specific views or tips about
gardening in small spaces, then comments would be much appreciated.

The trick is to garden in 3 dimensions which requires stands or shelves, or
trellises. Are such involved in your plan?

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

tomwhipps wrote:
hi all,
i am designing and creating a greenhouse for my A2 DT coursework, and
wanted to get peoples views on anything that is irritating or
unhelpful about current greenhouse models, and any additional
features that could be added to greenhouses to make them easier to
use, or to make flora growth or more efficient, or more inclusive.

This is slightly mysterious, I take it A2DT isn't an intelligent robot
shaped like a garbage tin so never mind but what it is that will be more
inclusive and why this is a good thing escapes me.

The main problem I see with current greenhouses is cost. Cheap ones don't
last and those that last are expensive. I begin to suspect that you will
not make this any better but in fact your collapsible version will be more
expensive than the same size that is fixed. Is that the case?

the greenhouse is for a flat garden, with less than a 3 metre squared
base area,

Do you mean 3 square metres or 3 metres square (ie 9 square metres)? Why
this size?

however the greenhouse is going to fold together, similar
to an airiing device for clothing,

I know several ways that airing frames fold up so this doesn't help much.
But it is collapsible, OK.

How big will it be folded and what will it weigh? How many people will it
take to fold/unfold/carry it? Will it have racks or benches inside? Will
these also collapse? Where will all the pots or trays full of earth go when
it is collapsed? Given the storage requirements for the components how much
space will actually be saved by collapsing it? I assume it will be covered
with flexible transparent polymer sheet, what will be the effect of
collapsing or erecting the structure on that sort of plastic over a period
of years?

so that the space could be used for
other activities rather than a permanent greenhouse.

Why would you go to this much trouble? When do you imagine it would be
folded and when unfolded? What climate would it be suitable for?

if anyone has any
tips or thoughts about this, and any specific views or tips about
gardening in small spaces, then comments would be much appreciated.

The trick is to garden in 3 dimensions which requires stands or shelves, or
trellises. Are such involved in your plan?

David

Then if it doesn't require benches or tables, perhaps you will be
planting into the ground, in which case you don't need a greenhouse, you
need a cold frame. If you don't know what you're going to grow, then you
don't know what you need. Four 10 ft. 2 X 12s, and a plastic sheet may
be sufficient.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

On Sep 2, 4:24*am, tomwhipps
wrote:

This is pretty much a sickle and hoe, digging in the dirt group, not
a lot of new age think here.

But some nu-tech automation ideas on a larger scale that could be
easily scaled to size: :
http://www.cityfarmer.info/2009/12/

http://homedesigndecorates.com/beaut...la-hynes-ideas

http://www.valcent.eu/documents/ValcentBrochure2010.pdf

also Google hydroponic, aquaponic, vertical integrated gardening, etc

A slick approach for a multi use building concept:
http://www.quadror.com/applications/...elief-housing/

Quadror has many more ideas on this concept but you can get the jest
with the temp shelter link.

good luck

Down here in Cornwall we even have substantial, well constructed greenhouses that just 'blow away' in gales from time to time, so I cant see how a folding version could ever be strong enough ? If you make it light enough to be folded, it would never be strong enough to stand much wind.
Incidentally, you might find it interesting to note that most damage to these structures comes from the downwind side from the 'vacuum effect' literally sucking the glass into the air ? which is why the ground fixing must be both very secure and also heavy enough to combat this effect.
I have replaced literally hundreds of these damaged greenhouses and am always amazed by how differently they have been damaged depending on the placement and siting of adjacent buildings etc and how these buildings create strange and often very violent turbulence !
You must also know that most structures, whilst initially sound and of good strong construction become very weak if flying debris breaks any glass allowing the wind inside.
I fear that whilst you may think you have a sensible and sound idea, in practice personally, I dont think its a feasible propsition !
Lannerman.

Green house is really wonderful for planting trees. And it really help in growing of plants. In my opinion with green house sheltering their should present proper air passages for the plants.

A2 DT is the year 13 course title for design technology, just to clear that up,

and i have considered using perspex, which although is brittle is cheap, and with simple structural changes to the greenhouse would be theoretically strong and lasting.

[color=blue][i]
I begin to suspect that you will
not make this any better but in fact your collapsible version will be more
expensive than the same size that is fixed. Is that the case?
[color=blue][i]

i would have to create a folding mechanism, however my ideas incorperate less, or the same amount of material as a fixed greenhouse of the same size, due to the wway the greenhouse would fold.

[color=blue][i]
Do you mean 3 square metres or 3 metres square (ie 9 square metres)? Why
this size?
[color=blue][i]

i meant nine square metres, and my greenhouse is designed for flat gardens,
ie. apartment, or balcony gardens, as my original post wasn't very clear, and the dimensions are based on research on apartments and flats in my area, and the average size of their garden, which is around 3m2, or 9sm

[color=blue][i]
How big will it be folded and what will it weigh?
[color=blue][i]

it will be folded flat abainst the wall, to 2.5 metres high, and about 5cm thick, and will be incredibly lightweight, using only perspex, and metal bolts and screws/nuts.

[color=blue][i]
How many people will it take to fold/unfold/carry it?
[color=blue][i]

it will only take one person to unfold or carry it, as the folding mechanism will be smooth, and one action will make each part fold separately, simply by using the force of the initial movement of the user.

[color=blue][i]
Will it have racks or benches inside? Will
these also collapse? Where will all the pots or trays full of earth go when
it is collapsed? Given the storage requirements for the components how much
space will actually be saved by collapsing it?
[color=blue][i]

i haven't decided all the interior components, but shelving is possible, and wouldn't takeup any extra space, however pots would have to be from the user, and i would only be able to include a space for pots, and they would have to be removed when the greenhouse is folded. i have thought of some ways in including extra features such as rain collection, which would be easy to include, would this be a useful feature?, and the greehouse would fold down to 5cm depth, meaning an extra 2.95m would be given.

[color=blue][i]
I assume it will be covered with flexible transparent polymer sheet, what will be the effect of collapsing or erecting the structure on that sort of plastic over a period of years?
[color=blue][i]

i am not going to use any flexible plastic, as i believe it looks incredibly ugly, and untraditional, and it would stretch and wouldn't retain its shape, and the perspex would't be stretched, or damaged by any amount of folding, as no friction between the surfaces should happen.

[color=blue][i]
Why would you go to this much trouble? When do you imagine it would be
folded and when unfolded? What climate would it be suitable for?
[color=blue][i]

it would be for first time flat buyers, generally, and for those that live in houses/flats with small gardens that wish to garden. it would be folded down during the colder months, when the plants simply cannot survive without heating, or when the user wishes to use the outside space, eg when they are socialising they may wish to go outdoors, and with a permenant greenhouse the space isn't useable, however with a foldable greenhouse the space can be used. the greenhouse should be suitable for UK weather, as that is what it is designer for, however i haven't created a prototype yet, so the insulating capabilities are still unknown to me.

[color=blue][i]
The trick is to garden in 3 dimensions which requires stands or shelves, or
trellises. Are such involved in your plan?
[color=blue][i]

all of which i could incorporate, however am only in the first stages of the project currently, and i will have to test different features when i have created some prototypes.

thanks for your feedback.

[color=blue][i]
Then if it doesn't require benches or tables, perhaps you will be
planting into the ground, in which case you don't need a greenhouse, you
need a cold frame. If you don't know what you're going to grow, then you
don't know what you need. Four 10 ft. 2 X 12s, and a plastic sheet may
be sufficient.
[color=blue][i]


it will be for potted plants of some variety, i have no specific species of flora, however veg would be my first thought for the type of plants, as grow-your-owwn-food is incredibly popular, and i dont know what i need at the moment, but am researching the types of plants that are popular with first time flat buyers and predict that small potted plants, such as small cacti, or orchids will be very popular, as well as vegetables, however this is very generic and i will have to do more research until i have a clearer idea of what plants i am going to be designing for.

thanks for the feedback,
to combat intense winds, which would be common if the flat was high up such as on estates, i am going to either fasten the greenhouse to the wall, or to the floor, i will need to do more testing and some questionaires and further research to see which way would work the best. the folding mechanism itself will mean that if the greenhouse was empty and open, then the greenhouse would simply fold closed if the wind was strong, but i need to think of ways in which it could be reinforced so it could withstand the wind.

tomwhipps wrote:[color=blue][i]
A2 DT is the year 13 course title for design technology, just to clear
that up,

and i have considered using perspex, which although is brittle is
cheap, and with simple structural changes to the greenhouse would be
theoretically strong and lasting.

[color=blue][i]
I begin to suspect that you will
not make this any better but in fact your collapsible version will be
more
expensive than the same size that is fixed. Is that the case?


i would have to create a folding mechanism, however my ideas
incorperate less, or the same amount of material as a fixed
greenhouse of the same size, due to the wway the greenhouse would
fold.


Good luck with making a folding version weigh less than the fixed
equivalent, I don't think it's going to work. You skipped over the cost,
greenhouses are expensive as it is, yours will be more expensive.
[color=blue][i]
[color=blue][i]
Do you mean 3 square metres or 3 metres square (ie 9 square metres)?
Why
this size?
[color=blue][i]

i meant nine square metres, and my greenhouse is designed for flat
gardens,
ie. apartment, or balcony gardens, as my original post wasn't very
clear, and the dimensions are based on research on apartments and
flats in my area, and the average size of their garden, which is
around 3m2, or 9sm

[color=blue][i]
How big will it be folded and what will it weigh?


it will be folded flat abainst the wall, to 2.5 metres high, and about
5cm thick, and will be incredibly lightweight, using only perspex, and
metal bolts and screws/nuts.


If it is so lightweight with no metal structural members I doubt that it
will be strong enough to stand much wind, it may not even be rigid enough to
stand on its own. The wind load on such structures can be considerable and
they can be literally blown away if not fastened down well.
[color=blue][i]
[color=blue][i]
How many people will it take to fold/unfold/carry it?


it will only take one person to unfold or carry it, as the folding
mechanism will be smooth, and one action will make each part fold
separately, simply by using the force of the initial movement of the
user.


One person to carry it! Have you done any sums to estimate the weight?
It's time you did. For a structure that sized to be rigid, durable,
transparent but light enough for one person to carry you don't need perspex
you need unobtainium.
[color=blue][i]
[color=blue][i]
Will it have racks or benches inside? Will
these also collapse? Where will all the pots or trays full of earth
go when
it is collapsed? Given the storage requirements for the components
how much
space will actually be saved by collapsing it?


i haven't decided all the interior components, but shelving is
possible, and wouldn't takeup any extra space, however pots would
have to be from the user, and i would only be able to include a space
for pots, and they would have to be removed when the greenhouse is
folded. i have thought of some ways in including extra features such
as rain collection, which would be easy to include, would this be a
useful feature?, and the greehouse would fold down to 5cm depth,
meaning an extra 2.95m would be given.


You seem to have missed the point. If you don't have all the trellises,
racks, tubs etc (whether you supply them or not) you don't have a
functioning greenhouse. If you do have them the space saved when the
structure is collapsed may be trivial or non existent.
[color=blue][i]
[color=blue][i]
I assume it will be covered with flexible transparent polymer sheet,
what will be the effect of collapsing or erecting the structure on
that sort of plastic over a period of years?


i am not going to use any flexible plastic, as i believe it looks
incredibly ugly, and untraditional, and it would stretch and wouldn't
retain its shape, and the perspex would't be stretched, or damaged by
any amount of folding, as no friction between the surfaces should
happen.


Without any metal structural members the perspex will bend all over the
place, it will be like trying to fold a wet paper bag without tearing the
paper.
[color=blue][i]
[color=blue][i]
Why would you go to this much trouble? When do you imagine it would
be

folded and when unfolded? What climate would it be suitable for?


it would be for first time flat buyers, generally, and for those that
live in houses/flats with small gardens that wish to garden. it would
be folded down during the colder months, when the plants simply cannot
survive without heating, or when the user wishes to use the outside
space, eg when they are socialising they may wish to go outdoors, and
with a permenant greenhouse the space isn't useable,

Really? I can see an empty greenhouse may be foldable in a few minutes and
give extra space but what do they do with the contents, the rather heavy
contents? This doesn't sound like something you will do in 10 minutes
because people are coming round for drinks this afternoon.

however with a[color=blue][i]
foldable greenhouse the space can be used. the greenhouse should be
suitable for UK weather, as that is what it is designer for, however i
haven't created a prototype yet, so the insulating capabilities are
still unknown to me.

[color=blue][i]
The trick is to garden in 3 dimensions which requires stands or
shelves, or
trellises. Are such involved in your plan?


all of which i could incorporate, however am only in the first stages
of the project currently, and i will have to test different features
when i have created some prototypes.

thanks for your feedback.

Have you checked municipal authorities to find out if such structures must
accord to a building standard or if they require building permission?

Have you got a back up plan in case this project proves to be impossible?

David

i want to upload a photo of the finished prototype, can someone help me as i am unsure of how photo uploads work on this forum,
thanks

I have replaced literally hundreds of these damaged greenhouses and am always amazed by how differently they have been damaged depending on the placement and siting of adjacent buildings etc and how these buildings create strange and often very violent turbulence !You must also know that most structures, whilst initially sound and of good strong construction become very weak if flying debris breaks any glass allowing the wind inside.

????????? So ???