Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:52:43 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

I'd not apply defolient with a pressure washer, that would be very
wasteful, most would end up on the ground... apply with a hand
operated squirt bottle to the cut stems only... I have a battery
operated spray bottle (two AA cells) that works very well,

This is very useful information, which, coupled with the suggestion by
others to spray in the first five minutes after cutting, is a good
one:two punch.

I had never realized there are battery-operated sprayers.

Mine is the classic hand pump operated as shown in this pictu
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11945136.jpg

The great part about the idea of spraying after cutting as opposed to
spraying without cutting, is that the poison oak covers an area far
greater than can be covered with spray - but- cutting it - by
necessity - is such that the cut plants are ALWAYS within spraying
distance!

But, cut plants are not going to take in the spray. Most sprays enter through
the leaves during high growth periods. Spraying at other times will mostly just
waste the spray. The only part of the cuttings that will take in the spray is
the very end of the remaining live wood of the cut plant. Hand treating the
major plants right where they are cut coming out of the ground with a
concentrated solution would be the only effective way to kill the root masses.
Treat only the outside edge of the cut, near the bark. Otherwise, wait untill
the leaf growth is going crazy, then spray the leaves. (with RoundUp, anyway)


So, oddly, from a practical standpoint, hand spraying can't work
without cutting - yet - it works great if done within 5 minutes of
cutting.

OR, it won't work at all after cutting. Spraying the cut branches is useless.


One 'problem' I just found out about with cutting though is that the
urushiol in the roots and vines is ten to 100 times as potent as that
in the leaves, so, cutting is inherently more dangerous overall.

However, the other side of this 'problem', is that spraying leaves the
dead vines where they are, which is still a potent hazard for 5 years
(wet environment) to ten years (dry environment) as the soil bacteria
and elements break down the catechols in the sap.

How about spraying the cuttings with chlorine, alcohol solution as discussed for
skin treatment? Will that break it down? Time for a science experiment?

Or, run the cuttings through a chipper and bag them for disposal? Don't stand
too close.


It's very interesting to learn about thine enemy!

You could probably rent a trailer sprayer to zap them all during growth, for
$100 or so. Then go in and clean them out after they die. Do not cut them until
they are really dead, because that will stop more spray from getting to the
roots. You may have to spray more than once to kill it all.

Danny D. wrote:
Surprisingly, this Amazon review of Zanfel contains very useful
information as to HOW the nonoxyl9 actually works:
http://www.amazon.com/Zanfel-Poison-...oduct-reviews/
B000GCPWUU?pageNumber=2
But the key takeaway is that it is a fundamental ingredient that we
need to reproduce in our own home remedies.

Isn't that an advertised ingrediant of pimple cream?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:41:20 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Treat only the outside edge of the cut, near the bark.

This is the plan!

Notice in this picture how the sap is ONLY on the outside ring!
(Just as you said.)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11947484.jpg

Otherwise, wait until the leaf growth is going crazy,
then spray the leaves. (with RoundUp, anyway)

This is good advice for most people - but - for me - it
won't work as well ONLY because the poison oak is so thick
that I can't get roundup (glyphosate) to the plant except
at the edges - but the plant is 40 to 50 feet deep in places.

So far, I'm planing on reading all the patents below, for information:
4,002,737 Prevention and/or treatment of poison ivy dermatitis
4,032,662 Method for the treatment of contact allergic dermatitis
4,199,575 Method of treating dermatitis venenata
4,259,318 Poison ivy relief composition
4,472,507 Method for detecting exposure to poison ivy and the like
4,499,086 Medication for treatment of poison oak irritation and
inflammation
4,594,239 Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
4,663,151 Aluminum chlorhydrate as a prophylatic treatment for poison
oak, poison ivy and poison sumac dermatitis
4,692,462 Compositions and method of controlling transdermal penetration
of topical and systemic agents
4,803,047 Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
4,834,901 Skunk odor shampoo
4,883,608 Polymeric decontamination composition
4,885,327 Swelled polymeric decontamination composition
4,902,441 Self moistening composition for deactivating toxic substances
and method of use
4,949,641 Method of safely detoxifying mustard gases
4,990,334 Glycerol-chlorine matrix
5,011,689 Composition of matter and method for treating poison ivy
5,080,707 Life-prolonging agent for cut flower and method for treatment
of cut flower
5,162,745 Multichannel sine synthesizer
5,192,498 Elimination of sulfide odor in thiocarbamate herbicides
5,240,699 Deodorant and filter using same, as well as method of producing
the deodorant
5,369,108 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of use
thereof
5,409,908 Complexing urushiols
5,443,847 Specific detoxification of urushiol with manganese salts
5,540,964 Moisture transport cast lining material for use beneath an
orthopedic cast, being in the form of a fabric and consisting essentially
of synthetic hydrophobic fibers or a blend of synthetic hydrophobic
fibers and a second different fiber
5,620,527 Cleansing and disinfecting method
5,686,074 Poison ivy treatment composition and method of use
5,700,811 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and method of use
thereof
5,707,546 Generation and storage of chlorine dioxide in a non-aqueous
medium
5,767,109 Complexing urushiols
5,811,113 Method and composition for deactivating HIV infected blood and
for deactivating and decolorizing anticancer drugs
5,859,066 Method for the treatment of itching
5,888,515 Rhus dermatitis treatment composition and method
5,932,616 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of use
thereof
5,985,302 Method for deactivating a contaminant
6,022,565 Rhus dermatitis treatment composition and method
6,087,367 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of use
thereof
6,296,841 Odor control composition and process
6,423,746 Urushiol induced contact dermatitis and method of use
6,436,445 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions containing an
oxidizing species
6,511,990 Class of cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase
inhibitors, and methods of use thereof
6,534,075 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions and treatments for
food surfaces
6,584,633 Automated fragrance application apparatus and method
6,599,432 Methods for disinfecting small diameter water lines
6,613,729 Wet wipes containing cationic fatty acid surfactants
6,718,914 Method for neutralizing offensive chemical odors
6,800,305 Pharmaceutical composition that contains eucalyptus and orange
oil
6,830,764 Method for denaturing allergens
6,855,328 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions containing an
oxidizing species
6,936,580 Hard surface cleaning pre-moistened wipes
6,994,890 Cleaning and multifunctional coating composition containing an
organosilane quaternary compound and hydrogen peroxide
7,008,963 Urushiol induced contact dermatitis solution
7,033,511 Sustained water treatment in dental equipment
7,087,253 Pharmaceutical composition, comprising eucalyptus oil and
orange oil
7,126,001 Class of cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase
inhibitors, and methods of use thereof
7,199,134 Hydroxamic acid compounds and methods of use thereof
7,288,527 Inhibition of allergic contact dermatitis by N-L-alpha-aspartyl-
L-phenylalanine 1-methyl ester
7,345,174 Cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase inhibitors,
and methods of use thereof
7,351,747 Skin treatment for relief of itch
7,510,137 Dispenser for sheet material
7,589,054 Clathrates of an organosilane quaternary ammonium compound and
urea and methods of use
7,618,616 Skin-protective compositions effective against vesicants and
percutaneous chemical agents
7,666,829 Compositions for elastogenesis and connective tissue treatment
7,716,956 Attachment means
7,741,089 Laccases, nucleic acids encoding them and methods for making
and using them
7,754,004 Thickened surfactant-free cleansing and multifunctional liquid
coating compositions containing nonreactive abrasive solid particles and
an organosilane quaternary compound and methods of using
7,799,803 Hydroxamic acid compounds and methods of use thereof
7,816,327 Inhibition of allergic contact dermatitis by N-L-alpha-aspartyl-
L-phenylalanine 1-methyl ester
7,858,570 Compositions and methods for removing urushiol and treating the
resulting skin condition
7,906,149 Method for treating allergic dermatitis
7,971,457 Devices for dispensing a laundry agent and methods for doing
same
8,022,054 Liquid ganaxolone formulations and methods for use thereof
8,067,358 Triple-action remedy for removing toxic oils from skin
8,097,442 Laccases, nucleic acids encoding them and methods for making
and using them
8,105,787 Applications of nucleic acid fragments
8,114,829 Elastin protective polyphenolics and methods of using the same
8,188,029 Hydrophilic polyurethane foam articles comprising an
antimicrobial compound
8,257,780 Therapeutic composition containing an organosilane quaternary
compound and hydrogen peroxide for treating skin disorders and methods of
using
RE38,506 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of use
thereof

When I'm done reading, I'll summarize for all to benefit.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:59:58 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Isn't that an advertised ingredient of pimple cream?

The glycol ether is supposedly a biocide, so, it might be.

It's the most important component of the detox solution because
it will do two jobs deep in the dermis at the Langerhans layer.
1. It binds to the urushiol receptor
2. It swaps places with urushiol already bound to the receptor

So, it behooves me to find a good source for the glycol ether.

It matters which one I choose because the shorter chain glycol
ethers are known to cause testicular degeneration (whatever that
is - but it doesn't sound good).

I haven't chosen which glycol ether yet, as my choice is either
the nonyl phenyl ethoxylate commonly known as nonoxyl-9, or the
longer-chain butyl variant (111-76-2) known as 2-Butoxyethanol.

I'm still reading up on this so that's why I haven't chosen
which glycol ether to use yet.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:55:17 -0800, Bob F wrote:

For the abrasive, maybe toothpaste will work as it has sand in it.

Or, add a little lava hand soap?

I was thinking about ajax - but that seems too abrasive.
Pumice would obviously work.
As would the polyethylene granules.

An abrasive is important because we're assuming the urushiol
sap has been on the skin for a day or two, so we need to
get deep down to the Langerhans's dendritic cell layer
where the now-activated quinone is bound to the receptor.

We then need to pull that quinone OFF the receptor, and
replace it with the glycol ether, along with blocking
all the other receptors with glycol ether.

Then we need to wash it all away, so that it doesn't infect
further.

Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:41:20 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Treat only the outside edge of the cut, near the bark.

This is the plan!

Notice in this picture how the sap is ONLY on the outside ring!
(Just as you said.)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11947484.jpg

Otherwise, wait until the leaf growth is going crazy,
then spray the leaves. (with RoundUp, anyway)

This is good advice for most people - but - for me - it
won't work as well ONLY because the poison oak is so thick
that I can't get roundup (glyphosate) to the plant except
at the edges - but the plant is 40 to 50 feet deep in places.

A pro sprayer would have no problem with that. Thay can easily spray the top of
100' trees.


So far, I'm planing on reading all the patents below, for information:
4,002,737 Prevention and/or treatment of poison ivy dermatitis
4,032,662 Method for the treatment of contact allergic dermatitis
4,199,575 Method of treating dermatitis venenata
4,259,318 Poison ivy relief composition
4,472,507 Method for detecting exposure to poison ivy and the like
4,499,086 Medication for treatment of poison oak irritation and
inflammation
4,594,239 Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
4,663,151 Aluminum chlorhydrate as a prophylatic treatment for poison
oak, poison ivy and poison sumac dermatitis
4,692,462 Compositions and method of controlling transdermal
penetration of topical and systemic agents
4,803,047 Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
4,834,901 Skunk odor shampoo
4,883,608 Polymeric decontamination composition
4,885,327 Swelled polymeric decontamination composition
4,902,441 Self moistening composition for deactivating toxic
substances and method of use
4,949,641 Method of safely detoxifying mustard gases
4,990,334 Glycerol-chlorine matrix
5,011,689 Composition of matter and method for treating poison ivy
5,080,707 Life-prolonging agent for cut flower and method for
treatment of cut flower
5,162,745 Multichannel sine synthesizer
5,192,498 Elimination of sulfide odor in thiocarbamate herbicides
5,240,699 Deodorant and filter using same, as well as method of
producing the deodorant
5,369,108 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of
use thereof
5,409,908 Complexing urushiols
5,443,847 Specific detoxification of urushiol with manganese salts
5,540,964 Moisture transport cast lining material for use beneath an
orthopedic cast, being in the form of a fabric and consisting
essentially of synthetic hydrophobic fibers or a blend of synthetic
hydrophobic fibers and a second different fiber
5,620,527 Cleansing and disinfecting method
5,686,074 Poison ivy treatment composition and method of use
5,700,811 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and method of
use thereof
5,707,546 Generation and storage of chlorine dioxide in a non-aqueous
medium
5,767,109 Complexing urushiols
5,811,113 Method and composition for deactivating HIV infected blood
and for deactivating and decolorizing anticancer drugs
5,859,066 Method for the treatment of itching
5,888,515 Rhus dermatitis treatment composition and method
5,932,616 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of
use thereof
5,985,302 Method for deactivating a contaminant
6,022,565 Rhus dermatitis treatment composition and method
6,087,367 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of
use thereof
6,296,841 Odor control composition and process
6,423,746 Urushiol induced contact dermatitis and method of use
6,436,445 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions containing an
oxidizing species
6,511,990 Class of cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase
inhibitors, and methods of use thereof
6,534,075 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions and treatments for
food surfaces
6,584,633 Automated fragrance application apparatus and method
6,599,432 Methods for disinfecting small diameter water lines
6,613,729 Wet wipes containing cationic fatty acid surfactants
6,718,914 Method for neutralizing offensive chemical odors
6,800,305 Pharmaceutical composition that contains eucalyptus and
orange oil
6,830,764 Method for denaturing allergens
6,855,328 Antimicrobial and antiviral compositions containing an
oxidizing species
6,936,580 Hard surface cleaning pre-moistened wipes
6,994,890 Cleaning and multifunctional coating composition containing
an organosilane quaternary compound and hydrogen peroxide
7,008,963 Urushiol induced contact dermatitis solution
7,033,511 Sustained water treatment in dental equipment
7,087,253 Pharmaceutical composition, comprising eucalyptus oil and
orange oil
7,126,001 Class of cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase
inhibitors, and methods of use thereof
7,199,134 Hydroxamic acid compounds and methods of use thereof
7,288,527 Inhibition of allergic contact dermatitis by
N-L-alpha-aspartyl- L-phenylalanine 1-methyl ester
7,345,174 Cytodifferentiating agents and histone deacetylase
inhibitors, and methods of use thereof
7,351,747 Skin treatment for relief of itch
7,510,137 Dispenser for sheet material
7,589,054 Clathrates of an organosilane quaternary ammonium compound
and urea and methods of use
7,618,616 Skin-protective compositions effective against vesicants and
percutaneous chemical agents
7,666,829 Compositions for elastogenesis and connective tissue
treatment 7,716,956 Attachment means
7,741,089 Laccases, nucleic acids encoding them and methods for making
and using them
7,754,004 Thickened surfactant-free cleansing and multifunctional
liquid coating compositions containing nonreactive abrasive solid
particles and an organosilane quaternary compound and methods of using
7,799,803 Hydroxamic acid compounds and methods of use thereof
7,816,327 Inhibition of allergic contact dermatitis by
N-L-alpha-aspartyl- L-phenylalanine 1-methyl ester
7,858,570 Compositions and methods for removing urushiol and treating
the resulting skin condition
7,906,149 Method for treating allergic dermatitis
7,971,457 Devices for dispensing a laundry agent and methods for doing
same
8,022,054 Liquid ganaxolone formulations and methods for use thereof
8,067,358 Triple-action remedy for removing toxic oils from skin
8,097,442 Laccases, nucleic acids encoding them and methods for making
and using them
8,105,787 Applications of nucleic acid fragments
8,114,829 Elastin protective polyphenolics and methods of using the
same 8,188,029 Hydrophilic polyurethane foam articles comprising an
antimicrobial compound
8,257,780 Therapeutic composition containing an organosilane
quaternary compound and hydrogen peroxide for treating skin disorders
and methods of using
RE38,506 Potent inducers of terminal differentiation and methods of
use thereof

When I'm done reading, I'll summarize for all to benefit.

You forgot to research fuel-air bombs.

I suspect your best bet is to hire or rent a good truck/trailer sprayer, and
kill it off during the growth stage(s).

I would also suspect that a 400' garden hose might not leave you much pressure
at the end, either for a garden hose end sprayer, or maybe even for a pressure
washer.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:22:28 -0800, Bob F wrote:

I would also suspect that a 400' garden hose might not leave you much
pressure at the end, either for a garden hose end sprayer, or maybe even
for a pressure washer.

Good point!

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:26:28 -0800, TimR wrote:

Instead, cut tunnels and spray from your tunnels.
Each year widen the tunnels and add connecting passages

This is actually a VERY GOOD attack plan!

It would work. And, it doesn't require a huge spraying effort.

I think that's what I'll do.

The beauty of the tunnels is that these are VINES.

The weak link on a huge vine is merely to slice it near
the bottom.

If I cut a path, that kills a LOT of cross-connecting vines!

If I cut a cross, that kills ALMOST ALL the vines at one point.

Nice idea!

Then, as you said, widening is easy, year by year.

I have the time to kill the vine!

I love innovative ideas that make sense! This one makes sense!

Hoses expand a bit. Might have to spray for a few seconds, and then let the
pressure come back up. The pressure builds back up, and the hoses swell up a
little.

I've worked at the end of 300 feet of hose, cleaning a roof top AC at a
mall, and it wasn't too awful bad. I was pleasantly surprised. Larger 3/4
good quality braided nylon hose will perform a lot better than kinked 1/2
vinyl, as you'd expect.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:22:28 -0800, Bob F wrote:

I would also suspect that a 400' garden hose might not leave you much
pressure at the end, either for a garden hose end sprayer, or maybe even
for a pressure washer.

Good point!

Must have resonated well. This is the largest number of
exclaimation points I've seen in this thread!!!!!!

I guess calling in the Air Force to practice with napalm
has been ruled out?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:26:28 -0800, TimR wrote:

Instead, cut tunnels and spray from your tunnels.
Each year widen the tunnels and add connecting passages

This is actually a VERY GOOD attack plan!

It would work. And, it doesn't require a huge spraying effort.

I think that's what I'll do.

The beauty of the tunnels is that these are VINES.

The weak link on a huge vine is merely to slice it near
the bottom.

If I cut a path, that kills a LOT of cross-connecting vines!

If I cut a cross, that kills ALMOST ALL the vines at one point.

Nice idea!

Then, as you said, widening is easy, year by year.

I have the time to kill the vine!

I love innovative ideas that make sense! This one makes sense!

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:34:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:22:28 -0800, Bob F wrote:

I would also suspect that a 400' garden hose might not leave you much
pressure at the end, either for a garden hose end sprayer, or maybe even
for a pressure washer.

Good point!

I'd worry more about having the physical strength to drag 400' of
garden hose about, on uneven ground 100' of hose filled with water is
heavy and difficult to maneuver... and you'll end up stretching the
hose causing permanent damage. I once made the mistake of buying
eight 100' lengths of 5/8" garden hose because it was on sale at
Lowe's, thought it a good way to water some young trees I planted
around my property, NOT! Even on level ground I could barely drag two
lengths. I ended up filling several 5 gallon contractor buckets and
hauling them in a wagon attached to my tractor. There's good reason
those hose reels only have a capacity of about 150'. A garden hose
filled with water is quite heavy... empty hose is even more difficult
to drag about, it twists and kinks. Those silly light weight hoses
shown on TV of late are a bad idea, dragging them in more then a 25'
length filled with water will ruin them immediately.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:14:29 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've worked at the end of 300 feet of hose, cleaning a roof top AC at a
mall, and it wasn't too awful bad.

Luckily this situation would have the pressure washer at the bottom of
the ravine a few hundred fee down the hill, which is a good hundred feet
or so vertically BELOW the hose bib at the house.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:14:46 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:14:29 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've worked at the end of 300 feet of hose, cleaning a roof top AC at a
mall, and it wasn't too awful bad.

Luckily this situation would have the pressure washer at the bottom of
the ravine a few hundred fee down the hill, which is a good hundred feet
or so vertically BELOW the hose bib at the house.

It still might work, depending on the pressure at the bib. 100' is
about 40PSI, so you should have something left at the top. It is
iffy, though. The most important thing is to make sure there is
enough volume that the washer doesn't dry up or overheat. I don't
think that takes much water.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:15:47 -0500, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:34:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:22:28 -0800, Bob F wrote:

I would also suspect that a 400' garden hose might not leave you much
pressure at the end, either for a garden hose end sprayer, or maybe even
for a pressure washer.

Good point!

I'd worry more about having the physical strength to drag 400' of
garden hose about, on uneven ground 100' of hose filled with water is
heavy and difficult to maneuver... and you'll end up stretching the
hose causing permanent damage.

Move it empty if it's too hard when it's full. I always put mine away
empty, for many reasons. That's one.

I once made the mistake of buying
eight 100' lengths of 5/8" garden hose because it was on sale at
Lowe's, thought it a good way to water some young trees I planted
around my property, NOT! Even on level ground I could barely drag two
lengths. I ended up filling several 5 gallon contractor buckets and
hauling them in a wagon attached to my tractor. There's good reason
those hose reels only have a capacity of about 150'. A garden hose
filled with water is quite heavy... empty hose is even more difficult
to drag about, it twists and kinks. Those silly light weight hoses
shown on TV of late are a bad idea, dragging them in more then a 25'
length filled with water will ruin them immediately.

Any decent hose shouln't kink, unless you force it to. Don't twist
it!

You can figure the pressure from elevation at .434 PSI per foot of
elevation, or 2.2 feet per PSI.

Sounds like the elevation will make up for the friction loss in the hose.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:14:29 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've worked at the end of 300 feet of hose, cleaning a roof top AC at a
mall, and it wasn't too awful bad.

Luckily this situation would have the pressure washer at the bottom of
the ravine a few hundred fee down the hill, which is a good hundred feet
or so vertically BELOW the hose bib at the house.