Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach, salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all. We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it out and are no further forward at all.

Thanks

Helen Middlemas wrote:

Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we
spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to
find that there is grass every where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a
brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding
it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and
will do the job.

Concrete pavement.

Helen Middlemas writes:

Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we
spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to
find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a
brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding
it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.
We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all
due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a
huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and
will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it
out and are no further forward at all.

Roundup.

Salt is not a good idea.

--
Dan Espen

On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, mlcwa wrote:
Helen Middlemas writes:



Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we

spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to

find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,

salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.



The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a

brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding

it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.



The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In

the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.



Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need

something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.

We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all

due to obviously remaining roots.



It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a

huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.



Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and

will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it

out and are no further forward at all.



Roundup.



Salt is not a good idea.



--

Dan Espen

I was just about to suggest the infamous Roundup. Sometimes one has to take a detour around one's principles g

If you use it, be sure to follow directions. Important is to water well before applying.

Definitely, salt is a no-no. Look back in history at how conquerers sowed the land of their defeated enemies with salt.

What is a "membrane"? Is that a UK term? Don't remember hearing it Over Here.

Good luck.

HB

Higgs Boson writes:

On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, mlcwa wrote:
Helen Middlemas writes:

I was just about to suggest the infamous Roundup. Sometimes one has to take a detour around one's principles g
If you use it, be sure to follow directions. Important is to water well before applying.
Definitely, salt is a no-no. Look back in history at how conquerers sowed the land of their defeated enemies with salt.
What is a "membrane"? Is that a UK term? Don't remember hearing it Over Here.

Damn, some fool used GG and double spaced the entire thread.
I've fixed the little part I'm replying too.
Anyway, give us a break and DUMP GG.

Yeah, I hesitated to mention Roundup.
We have some posters here that get irrational.
Nothing at all wrong with it when used for the right way.
When a pro comes in to give you a new lawn, they kill the old lawn/weeds
with Roundup. A little later they put in seeds, and new then nice new lawn.
New grass grows, right after the terrible Roundup.
Go figure.

A membrane has to be something like landscape cloth.

--
Dan Espen

In article
(Dan.Espen) writes:

Yeah, I hesitated to mention Roundup.
We have some posters here that get irrational.
Nothing at all wrong with it when used for the right way.
When a pro comes in to give you a new lawn, they kill the old lawn/weeds
with Roundup. A little later they put in seeds, and new then nice new lawn.
New grass grows, right after the terrible Roundup.
Go figure.

Roundup is taken up by green leaves and (as I recall) no longer
works once dry. So by the time the old lawn is dead, so is the
Killer Power. I mostly reserve it for poison ivy.

A membrane has to be something like landscape cloth.

That was my take. Otherwise I'd suggest a flame weeder. If the
area is soaked well first, a flame weeder may still work. It works
wonders at clearing my back fence (chain link), where the neighbors
let everything grow up. (I think they'd rather look at tall weeds
than my sloppy gardens.)


--
Drew Lawson So risk all or don't risk anything
You can lose all the same

On 3/24/2014 6:42 AM, Helen Middlemas wrote:

Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we
spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to
find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a
brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding
it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.
We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all
due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a
huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and
will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it
out and are no further forward at all.

Thanks

In the U.S., grass-specific herbicides are available. I use
Gress-Getter, which has the same active ingredient as Poast. The
instructions inidcate mixing Grass-Getter with agricultural oil (a very
light oil) as a wetting agent; but I use liquid soap instead. This is
very effective where grass and non-grass plants grow together and I only
want to kill the grass.

The active ingredient is Sethoxydim: 2-[1-(ethoxyimino)
butyl]-5-[2-(ethylthio)propyl]-3-hydroxy-2-cyclohexen-1-one

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

lid (Drew Lawson) writes:

In article
(Dan.Espen) writes:

Yeah, I hesitated to mention Roundup.
We have some posters here that get irrational.
Nothing at all wrong with it when used for the right way.
When a pro comes in to give you a new lawn, they kill the old lawn/weeds
with Roundup. A little later they put in seeds, and new then nice new lawn.
New grass grows, right after the terrible Roundup.
Go figure.

Roundup is taken up by green leaves and (as I recall) no longer
works once dry. So by the time the old lawn is dead, so is the
Killer Power. I mostly reserve it for poison ivy.

I use it on my brick path ways, and patio.
I'll hand pull, but the Roundup makes most weeds go away for
a longer time.
I tried painting it on poison ivy with no obvious effect.

Todd's suggestion to use vinegar (acetic acid), gets some endorsement
online. I'm not 100% convinced, it's an acid, wouldn't that mess with
the soil PH?

I have roof moss and Roundup just doesn't seem right, maybe I'll
try the vinegar there. I tried dilute bleach and got a subdued
reaction from the moss.

Is there always something in the soil to break it down to neutral?
It is CH3COOH which seems pretty innocuous, just carbon, hydrogen,
oxygen.

The safety information for vinegar should have the Roundup naysayers
running for cover:

Concentrated acetic acid is corrosive to skin and must, therefore, be
handled with appropriate care, since it can cause skin burns,
permanent eye damage, and irritation to the mucous membranes.[57][58]
These burns or blisters may not appear until hours after
exposure. Latex gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant
gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber, are worn when handling
the compound. Concentrated acetic acid can be ignited with difficulty
in the laboratory. It becomes a flammable risk if the ambient
temperature exceeds 39 °C (102 °F), and can form explosive mixtures
with air above this temperature (explosive limits: 5.4–16%). Acetic
acid is a strong eye, skin, and mucous membrane irritant. Prolonged
skin contact with glacial acetic acid may result in tissue
destruction. Inhalation exposure (8 hours) to acetic acid vapours at
10 ppm could produce some irritation of eyes, nose, and throat; at 100
ppm marked lung irritation and possible damage to lungs, eyes, and
skin might result. Vapour concentrations of 1,000 ppm cause marked
irritation of eyes, nose and upper respiratory tract and cannot be
tolerated. These predictions were based on animal experiments and
industrial exposure. Skin sensitization to acetic acid is rare, but
has occurred. It has been reported that, 12 workers exposed for two or
more years to an estimated mean acetic acid airborne concentration of
51 ppm, there were symptoms of conjunctive irritation, upper
respiratory tract irritation, and hyperkeratotic dermatitis. Exposure
to 50 ppm or more is intolerable to most persons and results in
intensive lacrimation and irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat,
with pharyngeal oedema and chronic bronchitis. Un acclimatized humans
experience extreme eye and nasal irritation at concentrations in
excess of 25 ppm, and conjunctivitis from concentrations below 10 ppm
has been reported. In a study of 5 workers exposed for 7 to 12 years
to concentrations of 80 to 200 ppm at peaks, the principal findings
were blackening and hyperkeratosis of the skin of the hands,
conjunctivitis (but no corneal damage), bronchitis and pharyngitis,
and erosion of the exposed teeth (incisors and canines).[59]

Nasty stuff.

(Yeah I know, diluted, you can eat it.)

Just a little satire.


--
Dan Espen

Helen Middlemas wrote:
Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area
we spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only
to find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to
seed a brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were
reseeding it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for
all. We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it
at all due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't
have, a huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly
dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong
and will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money
sorting it out and are no further forward at all.

Thanks

As others have said use glyphosate. Roundup is the trade name of the
original and (often) the most expensive version. Follow the directions for
use and safety instructions carefully. The point about using it effectively
is to use it when the plant is growing strongly so that firstly it is
absorbed through the leaves and secondly it is carried down to the roots
through the plant's system. Some people use it when the plant is dormant
thinking when the plant is weaker it is vulnerable: wrong. Avoid spraying
when rain is coming or before using a sprinkler as if you wash it off before
it is absorbed it won't work, contact in itself does nothing.

D

On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, mlcwa wrote:
Helen Middlemas writes:



Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we

spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to

find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,

salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.



The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a

brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding

it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.



The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In

the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.



Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need

something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.

We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all

due to obviously remaining roots.



It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a

huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.



Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and

will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it

out and are no further forward at all.



Roundup.



Salt is not a good idea.



--

Dan Espen

In my experience Roundup is not strong enough. Find something that says it will Kill All.
MJ

Dan.Espen wrote:

I have roof moss and Roundup just doesn't seem right, maybe I'll
try the vinegar there. I tried dilute bleach and got a subdued
reaction from the moss.

It's very easy to get rid of roof moss, remove whatever is shading the
roof, then spray with bathroom tile mildew remover... if you do not
remove whatever is shading the area the moss will come right back...
I'd not wait too long before rectifying your problem either, moss
indicates a moisture problem, your roof will soon be leaking as the
roofing and sheathing beneath will be ruined, and home owner insurance
will not cover your neglect.

In article
(Dan.Espen) writes:
(Drew Lawson) writes:

Roundup is taken up by green leaves and (as I recall) no longer
works once dry. So by the time the old lawn is dead, so is the
Killer Power. I mostly reserve it for poison ivy.

I use it on my brick path ways, and patio.
I'll hand pull, but the Roundup makes most weeds go away for
a longer time.
I tried painting it on poison ivy with no obvious effect.

Poison ivy is tough, especially if it has managed to get established.
The problem with RoundUp on it (and other perennials) is that RoundUp
does not kill plants. It inhibits an enzyme the roots need. If
the plant has food stores, it can just go dormant, wait out the
RoundUp and come back a little weaker. That (as far as I can tell)
happens with poison ivy. My impression from many years back is
that dandelions do the same.

Unfortunately, I react strongly to poison ivy, so digging it out
is often not an option (especially if it is rooted on the neighbor's
side of the fence).

Todd's suggestion to use vinegar (acetic acid), gets some endorsement
online. I'm not 100% convinced, it's an acid, wouldn't that mess with
the soil PH?

I've never tried the vinegar method. The suggestions I've seen
usually are for surface application (or pouring in hollow stems).
That might not change the soil much. I don't know.

I have roof moss and Roundup just doesn't seem right, maybe I'll
try the vinegar there. I tried dilute bleach and got a subdued
reaction from the moss.

I don't know whether RoundUp works on moss. My botany is too weak
to say whether moss uses roots the same way.


Is there always something in the soil to break it down to neutral?
It is CH3COOH which seems pretty innocuous, just carbon, hydrogen,
oxygen.


--
Drew Lawson | What is an "Oprah"?
| -- Teal'c
|

Brooklyn1 writes:

Dan.Espen wrote:

I have roof moss and Roundup just doesn't seem right, maybe I'll
try the vinegar there. I tried dilute bleach and got a subdued
reaction from the moss.

It's very easy to get rid of roof moss, remove whatever is shading the
roof, then spray with bathroom tile mildew remover... if you do not
remove whatever is shading the area the moss will come right back...
I'd not wait too long before rectifying your problem either, moss
indicates a moisture problem, your roof will soon be leaking as the
roofing and sheathing beneath will be ruined, and home owner insurance
will not cover your neglect.

Well, the shade can't be cured. Neighbors huge trees.
I know they won't remove them. It's pretty shady anyway, as the house
faces directly south and theses are in the back.

If find it odd that you think a fungicide will work on moss.
Not really the same thing.

Thanks for the pointers on the urgency. I know I have to do something.

--
Dan Espen

On 3/24/2014 10:26 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Helen Middlemas wrote:
Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area
we spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only
to find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to
seed a brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were
reseeding it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for
all. We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it
at all due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't
have, a huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly
dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong
and will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money
sorting it out and are no further forward at all.

Thanks

As others have said use glyphosate. Roundup is the trade name of the
original and (often) the most expensive version. Follow the directions for
use and safety instructions carefully. The point about using it effectively
is to use it when the plant is growing strongly so that firstly it is
absorbed through the leaves and secondly it is carried down to the roots
through the plant's system. Some people use it when the plant is dormant
thinking when the plant is weaker it is vulnerable: wrong. Avoid spraying
when rain is coming or before using a sprinkler as if you wash it off before
it is absorbed it won't work, contact in itself does nothing.

I once read that, for vigorous perennial weeds, mix RoundUp slightly
less strong than the label instructions. It does damage the entire
plant not just the roots. By making it a bit weak, you ensure that it
does indeed reach the roots instead of killing the path to the roots.

For any spray or brush-on chemical, I always add liquid soap as a
wetting agent.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 3/24/2014 12:15 PM, Dan.Espen wrote:
Helen Middlemas writes:

Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we
spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to
find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach,
salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.

The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a
brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding
it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.

The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In
the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.

Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need
something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all.
We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all
due to obviously remaining roots.

It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a
huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.

Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and
will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it
out and are no further forward at all.

Roundup.

Salt is not a good idea.


Salt and strong acids can do a job on concrete. I suspect strong acetic
acid and even vinegar would do it to. Tried and true methods like
flame, Roundup and even covering completely from sun light would work.