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Watering young fruit trees
This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx HB |
Watering young fruit trees
On 8/29/2014 3:47 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx HB With the drought, there is likely NO ground water for your trees. Create a basin around each tree with an inner berm about 1-2 feet from the trunk and an outer berm aligned with the outermost branch ends. Flood the basin to a depth of about 2-3 inches about once each week; this should likely fall within your allowance for water usage. The suckers on your apricot might indicate extreme stress on the tree. Suckers should be removed completely, not cut away but pulled off at the point where they sprout from the roots or rootstock. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Watering young fruit trees
On Friday, August 29, 2014 5:48:59 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 8/29/2014 3:47 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx HB With the drought, there is likely NO ground water for your trees. Could it -- lack of ground water -- possibly extend that deep???? Create a basin around each tree with an inner berm about 1-2 feet from the trunk and an outer berm aligned with the outermost branch ends. Ewww...that's going to call for some realignment of other beds. But true, absorption happens at the periphery.. Flood the basin to a depth of about 2-3 inches about once each week; this should likely fall within your allowance for water usage. They haven't formalized allowances as yet, but plenty of people who have been very conscientious,just out of social responsibility, are mightily ticked off that THEY might be subject to % reduction just like the wasteful ones. I hope it doesn't come to that -- the authorities should look at the record before putting it to the good guys! The suckers on your apricot might indicate extreme stress on the tree. Oddly enough, they proliferated almost from when I put thr apricot in -- way before the drought. Never at the plum, about 10 feet away! As I observed over the years, I kept thinking the apricot is just not as healthy -- something we can observe in other plants. Ex: I had a cucumber that roared ahead of the others in the same row. I mean HUGE. Damn thing produced one little cucumber & then died! Suckers should be removed completely, not cut away but pulled off at the point where they sprout from the roots or rootstock. Yep. Tx HB |
Watering young fruit trees
On 30/08/2014 11:59 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Friday, August 29, 2014 5:48:59 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote: On 8/29/2014 3:47 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx HB With the drought, there is likely NO ground water for your trees. Could it -- lack of ground water -- possibly extend that deep???? Yes. |
Watering young fruit trees
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? |
Watering young fruit trees
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". HB |
Watering young fruit trees
On 8/30/2014 8:01 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". HB Newsgroups are not Twitter. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon
wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". Oh. A neat method for watering trees in arid climes is with 4" diameter perforated PVC pipe. With a post hole digger or auger make post holes aboout 30" deep about the tree drip line 120º apart. Insert a length of perforated pipe into each hole with about 2" above grade. Then each day or as needed fill each pipe with water, can fertilze too. Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 10:03:37 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote: On 8/30/2014 8:01 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". HB Newsgroups are not Twitter. The closest I've ever been to tweeting is feeding birds... I don't text either... I don't use a cell phone. There are very few pay phones nowadays so I broke down and got a Tracfone for emergencies when I'm not home but in the past year I used it once for less than a minute. I never turn it on unless I intend to use it, no one has the number, I don't even know the number unless I check the bit of paper it's written on in my case, I paid more than three times as much for the case as I did for the under $10 Tracfone. I have a land line at home but I rarely use it, mostly for calling businesses, like local stores to check if they have something. I see no reason to waste my time with inane chatting like I overhear... like WTF do I need to phone someone to tell them I'm on my way, I'll be there in five minutes, I'm in your drivewy, I'm ringing your bell, do you hear me now? LOL Most of the conversations I overhear are definitely psychotic. The only real use for cell phones is for cheating on ones SO. I grew up with one rotary phone in the kitchen, there were no private phone calls, my parents remained happily married for more than 50 years... nowadays the divorce rate is directly proportional to ones cell phone minutes. |
Watering young fruit trees
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 10:03:37 AM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 8/30/2014 8:01 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". HB Newsgroups are not Twitter. "Tx" is not Twitter (I don't have it or any social groups). Tx, along with FWIW, POS, FOAD, AFAIK, and a few others in common use, are perfectly ordinary Internet discourse. HB |
Watering young fruit trees
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:29:14 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". Oh. A neat method for watering trees in arid climes is with 4" diameter perforated PVC pipe. With a post hole digger or auger make post holes aboout 30" deep about the tree drip line 120� apart. Insert a length of perforated pipe into each hole with about 2" above grade. Then each day or as needed fill each pipe with water, can fertilze too. Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. Tx. Sounds like a plan. I had been letting a slow hose run for a long time too near the trunk; shoulda known to put it near drip line. Do I assume correctly that the PVC pipe is BLOCKED at both ends, such that the only water that goes IN is through the 2" entry and the only water that comes OUT is through the underground perforations? HB |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon
wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:29:14 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. Went on-line but nothing relevant to my question. They discuss baby trees but don't talk about watering 4-5 years old. This is So Calif coastal. Anybody Up Here or Down There offer any wisdom? Tx If you're in CA why do you sign Tx? That's computerese short for "thanks". Oh. A neat method for watering trees in arid climes is with 4" diameter perforated PVC pipe. With a post hole digger or auger make post holes aboout 30" deep about the tree drip line 120? apart. Insert a length of perforated pipe into each hole with about 2" above grade. Then each day or as needed fill each pipe with water, can fertilze too. Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. Tx. Sounds like a plan. I had been letting a slow hose run for a long time too near the trunk; shoulda known to put it near drip line. Do I assume correctly that the PVC pipe is BLOCKED at both ends, such that the only water that goes IN is through the 2" entry and the only water that comes OUT is through the underground perforations? HB I'd leave the ends open.... if you think too much water is seeping at the bottom you can attach a wooden disk to a dowel to push into the pipe. Also a good layer of mulch will slow water loss. A lot depends on the condition of the soil you used to fill the hole when you planted. Also keep in mind that stone fruit really doesn't do well in So Cal. |
Watering young fruit trees
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:29:14 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote [in part]:
Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. While feeder roots might be near the soil surface, roots taking up water can be much deeper. Walnut trees can send their roots down 20 feet. Oaks can send their roots even deeper seeking water. Roots only 2 feet deep could not support a giant redwood or a "Blue Gum" eucalyptus; the first moderate wind would topple such trees. Even tomato plants can send their roots down 10 feet. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Watering young fruit trees
Hypatia Nachshon writes:
"Tx" is not Twitter (I don't have it or any social groups). Tx, along with FWIW, POS, FOAD, AFAIK, and a few others in common use, are perfectly ordinary Internet discourse. MAYBE some of the above are common on Usenet, but "Tx" certainly isn't. I certainly don't interact with people that use a few of those. Most people on Usenet try to write complete, correct sentences with correct spelling. Show a little pride and write like you're going to be graded. -- Dan Espen |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:49:29 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:29:14 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote [in part]: Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. While feeder roots might be near the soil surface, roots taking up water can be much deeper. Walnut trees can send their roots down 20 feet. Oaks can send their roots even deeper seeking water. Roots only 2 feet deep could not support a giant redwood or a "Blue Gum" eucalyptus; the first moderate wind would topple such trees. Even tomato plants can send their roots down 10 feet. Um, I said most, and here we're talking small fruit trees... sycamore trees are huge yet are shallow rooted and they don't easily topple |
Watering young fruit trees
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 1:30:12 PM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:29:14 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:33:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: This is about a Santa Rosa plum and a Blenheim Apricot. Planted same time; about 4-5 years ago. I assumed that at that age they would be living on ground water, but gardener told me contrary today! Horrified! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa! Is he right?! Plum is healthy-looking; well leafed-out. Apricot no; looks puny; suckers galore. I remove; they return. [...] A neat method for watering trees in arid climes is with 4" diameter perforated PVC pipe. With a post hole digger or auger make post holes aboout 30" deep about the tree drip line 120? apart. Insert a length of perforated pipe into each hole with about 2" above grade. Then each day or as needed fill each pipe with water, can fertilze too. Most tree roots don't go more than two feet deep and most feeder roots are just below the surface. Tx. Sounds like a plan. I had been letting a slow hose run for a long time too near the trunk; shoulda known to put it near drip line. Do I assume correctly that the PVC pipe is BLOCKED at both ends, such that the only water that goes IN is through the 2" entry and the only water that comes OUT is through the underground perforations? I'd leave the ends open.... if you think too much water is seeping at the bottom you can attach a wooden disk to a dowel to push into the pipe. Also a good layer of mulch will slow water loss. A lot depends on the condition of the soil you used to fill the hole when you planted. Also keep in mind that stone fruit really doesn't do well in So Cal. I'm honestly not getting it. Never was good at spatial stuff g Do you mean the 4" buried pipe is perforated only at the water entry point? Open at both ends? I was visualizing buried pipe blocked at both ends, with a 2" vertical "filler" pipe inserted into it. Water would then exit underground 4" pipe via several perforations rather than sudden gush. Is this design overkill? HB |
Watering young fruit trees
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
I'm honestly not getting it. Never was good at spatial stuff g Do you mean the 4" buried pipe is perforated only at the water entry point? Open at both ends? I was visualizing buried pipe blocked at both ends, with a 2" vertical "filler" pipe inserted into it. Water would then exit underground 4" pipe via several perforations rather than sudden gush. Is this design overkill? You obviously don't know what perforated PVC pipe is... there are various types, check your local big box hardware store. It's relatively inexpensive, about a buck a foot in 10' lenghts. Cuts fairly easily with a hack saw. Dig the post holes and insert lenghts of pipe vertically and back fill... I think now you should get it. http://perforatedpvcpipe.com/perfora...s-properf.html http://www.lowes.com/pd_24141-1814-P...ductId=3362194 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Advanced-...0010/203298773 Some people prefer to buy solid PVC pipe (costs a bit less) and drill their own holes to a size and pattern they prefer... just more labor. Also a plumbing supply emporium will have more choices. If you're not fussy about aesthetics another tree watering method is with 5 gallon contractor buckets; drill a couple of 1/4" holes in the bottom set around the tree and fill with water... far less labor (no digging). But I think the perforated pipe method is a lot more efficient for deep watering. Once the tree is well established you can choose to remove the pipes. There are many other tree watering products: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oasis-8-i...-202101553-_-x |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sunday, August 31, 2014 8:04:45 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote: I'm honestly not getting it. Never was good at spatial stuff g Do you mean the 4" buried pipe is perforated only at the water entry point? Open at both ends? I was visualizing buried pipe blocked at both ends, with a 2" vertical "filler" pipe inserted into it. Water would then exit underground 4" pipe via several perforations rather than sudden gush. Is this design overkill? You obviously don't know what perforated PVC pipe is... there are various types, check your local big box hardware store. It's relatively inexpensive, about a buck a foot in 10' lenghts. Cuts fairly easily with a hack saw. Dig the post holes and insert lenghts of pipe vertically and back fill... I think now you should get it. http://perforatedpvcpipe.com/perfora...s-properf.html http://www.lowes.com/pd_24141-1814-P...ductId=3362194 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Advanced-...0010/203298773 Some people prefer to buy solid PVC pipe (costs a bit less) and drill their own holes to a size and pattern they prefer... just more labor. Also a plumbing supply emporium will have more choices. If you're not fussy about aesthetics another tree watering method is with 5 gallon contractor buckets; drill a couple of 1/4" holes in the bottom set around the tree and fill with water... far less labor (no digging). But I think the perforated pipe method is a lot more efficient for deep watering. Once the tree is well established you can choose to remove the pipes. There are many other tree watering products: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oasis-8-i...-202101553-_-x Gracias for mimi-tutorial - much appreciated. I HAVE been perforating my own PCV pipes (smalldiam) which serve nicely for watering beds (instead of soaker hoses). So I might go that way with buried pipes, depending how many holes the commercial variety has; I assume not as many as with my watering-bed pipes. If many holes required I'll let them do it g. Pls address my q. re; blocking ends of pipe. I still can't visualize pouring a whole bunch of water down the intake, and having it all gush out at once. TIA HB |
Watering young fruit trees
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
Pls address my q. re; blocking ends of pipe. I still can't visualize pouring a whole bunch of water down the intake, and having it all gush out at once. No water gushes out the bottom, it's down in the ground, water will slowly perk into the ground, and that's what you want for deep watering... unless you have an underground spring directly below those trees any excess water you add that the ground can't absorb will evaporate at the surface, same as it does when over watering a lawn. Were there an underground spring you wouldn't be asking about watering, the ground would always be moist. If you're unsure do one test pipe first to see how your ground perks, You can always place a stopper into a pipe later, drop an empty steel can into the pipe, pop a hole in it so it won't float, and you can always retrieve it with a magnet. If your ground is very porous it won't matter how much you water. |
Watering young fruit trees
On Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:27:32 PM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote: Pls address my q. re; blocking ends of pipe. I still can't visualize pouring a whole bunch of water down the intake, and having it all gush out at once. No water gushes out the bottom, it's down in the ground, water will slowly perk into the ground, and that's what you want for deep watering... unless you have an underground spring directly below those trees any excess water you add that the ground can't absorb will evaporate at the surface, same as it does when over watering a lawn. Were there an underground spring you wouldn't be asking about watering, the ground would always be moist. If you're unsure do one test pipe first to see how your ground perks, You can always place a stopper into a pipe later, drop an empty steel can into the pipe, pop a hole in it so it won't float, and you can always retrieve it with a magnet. If your ground is very porous it won't matter how much you water. OK, next time I'm at Home Despot I'll check out the pipes. Muchas gracias HB |
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