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Scientists lie?
On 12/02/2015 1:43 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:55:37 +1100, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 2:02 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:32 -0800, T wrote: Did you notice that the source you cited got character assassinated? This is what happens when political correctness rules science (Lysenkoism). Your source was called out for his well-known agenda, his repeated denial of basic scientific facts and his overall lack of credibility. That "journalist" really is lacking in credibility but then if we go on to the links back to Homewood, The Tele source, at least it can be said that he put more effort into his hoodwinking than the "journalist". You've got to hand it to Homewood, he's got a nice little hoodwink line going on there. People such as the Telegraph "journalist" and others who go to his site must just believe him without going on to check his sources. They must be either lazy or stupid or will buy cheap sea side land that only gets wet twice a day. If they did check the links Homewood gives, it becomes very clear, very quickly, that Homewood also is not the least bit credible. Indeed. Most folks will not take the extra step that is needed these days to verify what they see online. Sigh. I used to think that full access to knowledge and verifiable facts online would create in informed citizenry. It depresses me if I think about it for too long. The Age of Enlightenment might never have happened given what I see of all of dumbing down that goes. Boy was I wrong. All it has done is give a stage to fools, liars and snake-oil purveyors. Well there is some great stuff too but the problem is that too many people don't seem capable of differentiating the crap from the superlative (or at least the acceptable). |
Scientists lie?
In article
Boron Elgar writes: Indeed. Most folks will not take the extra step that is needed these days to verify what they see online. It is sometimes easy to assume that the author is fairly representing the referenced work. Listing the reference is almost a bluff. I got slightly taken by a less loony example of this recently. I caught an article talking about how Forbes magazine had trashed Boehner about some recent events. I had the intended reaction -- "Forbes leans so far to the right that it only tans on one side, and *they* bashed Boehner?" Then I read the actual Forbes piece. Instead of Forbes staff, it was written by an occasional contributor who is sort of a token liberal. ("Liberal Bashes Boehner" is pretty much a "Dog Bites Man" story.) And the alleged crushing was (to me) pretty mild, and only appeared in the last third of the piece. But 90+% of the people who read the first article I saw probably believed that something amazing had happened. Sigh. I used to think that full access to knowledge and verifiable facts online would create in informed citizenry. Boy was I wrong. All it has done is give a stage to fools, liars and snake-oil purveyors. The same prediction was made for cable TV, and television in general before that. It may have even been made for radio. Unfortunately, we keep letting human nature in. -- Drew Lawson | If dreams were thunder, | and lightning was desire, | This old house would have burnt down | a long time ago |
Scientists lie?
On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 6:13:03 AM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 12/02/2015 1:43 PM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:55:37 +1100, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 2:02 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:32 -0800, T wrote: Did you notice that the source you cited got character assassinated? This is what happens when political correctness rules science (Lysenkoism). Your source was called out for his well-known agenda, his repeated denial of basic scientific facts and his overall lack of credibility. That "journalist" really is lacking in credibility but then if we go on to the links back to Homewood, The Tele source, at least it can be said that he put more effort into his hoodwinking than the "journalist". You've got to hand it to Homewood, he's got a nice little hoodwink line going on there. People such as the Telegraph "journalist" and others who go to his site must just believe him without going on to check his sources. They must be either lazy or stupid or will buy cheap sea side land that only gets wet twice a day. If they did check the links Homewood gives, it becomes very clear, very quickly, that Homewood also is not the least bit credible. Indeed. Most folks will not take the extra step that is needed these days to verify what they see online. Sigh. I used to think that full access to knowledge and verifiable facts online would create in informed citizenry. It depresses me if I think about it for too long. The Age of Enlightenment might never have happened given what I see of all of dumbing down that goes. Boy was I wrong. All it has done is give a stage to fools, liars and snake-oil purveyors. Well there is some great stuff too but the problem is that too many people don't seem capable of differentiating the crap from the superlative (or at least the acceptable). They could if they would bother acquiring the rudiments of critical thinking. But our whole capitalist-driven social structure (and I am a card-carrying capitalist but with a human heart!) is directed at creating an educational system [chuckle] whose aim is to turn out consumers of [often bad] products people don't really need, and [almost always bad] ideas that profit only Our Corporate Masters and their whore-lackeys in Congress. With the greatest respect for NG members who try to engage climate change deniers, save your electrons. Deniers NEED this belief system! to give it up would damage their selves. Incidentally, do people realize there still exists a Flat Earth Society? HB |
Scientists lie?
In article
Hypatia Nachshon writes: But our whole capitalist-driven social structure (and I am a card-carrying capitalist but with a human heart!) is directed at creating an educational system [chuckle] whose aim is to turn out consumers of [often bad] products people don't really need, and [almost always bad] ideas that profit only Our Corporate Masters and their whore-lackeys in Congress. I read Brave New World somewhere around 1983. I recall finding the component about obligatory consumption to be silly hyperbole. I now think that Huxley's presentation was understated. -- Drew Lawson ". . . And I never give a reason" -- God, as channeled by Seven Nations |
Scientists lie?
On 02/12/2015 04:32 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
climate change deniers ... Deniers NEED this belief system Hi Higgs, You are a nice person. Why do you use religious extremists terms to refer to those you don't agree with? Why do you go to insults instead of keeping it in the arena of ideas? You are better than that. -T By the way, the proper term is "skeptic". No belief system involved. Religion and politics need to butt out of science. |
Scientists lie?
Fran Farmer wrote:
Just look at all the name calling on this group towards those that dissent. The problem with those who dissent here, which IIRC has only been expressed by you and Frank, is that neither of you have given cites that can withstand any scrutiny to support your claims that climate change is 'bunk'. For example, that newspaper article cited by Frank can be demolished in about 60 seconds flat using the most simple of google searches. Funny how the righties always accuse their opponents of have exactly their own worst faults. |
Scientists lie?
On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 6:42:39 AM UTC-8, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article Hypatia Nachshon writes: But our whole capitalist-driven social structure (and I am a card-carrying capitalist but with a human heart!) is directed at creating an educational system [chuckle] whose aim is to turn out consumers of [often bad] products people don't really need, and [almost always bad] ideas that profit only Our Corporate Masters and their whore-lackeys in Congress. I read Brave New World somewhere around 1983. I recall finding the component about obligatory consumption to be silly hyperbole. I've re-read it every few year since [censored date] and it gets scarier every time, as technology and above all VALLUES catch up to prescient prediction.(Can one say that?) Same, incidentally, with "1984", which I read first as a university student way back when. I did not sleep well for a week. Next time I tried to read it, I was too scared to finish. It took years till I could approach it again. Meantime, technology is rapidly catching up to Big Brother... I now think that Huxley's presentation was understated. Amen! HB -- Drew Lawson ". . . And I never give a reason" -- God, as channeled by Seven Nations |
Scientists lie?
On 13/02/2015 11:32 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 6:13:03 AM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 1:43 PM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:55:37 +1100, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 2:02 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:32 -0800, T wrote: Did you notice that the source you cited got character assassinated? This is what happens when political correctness rules science (Lysenkoism). Your source was called out for his well-known agenda, his repeated denial of basic scientific facts and his overall lack of credibility. That "journalist" really is lacking in credibility but then if we go on to the links back to Homewood, The Tele source, at least it can be said that he put more effort into his hoodwinking than the "journalist". You've got to hand it to Homewood, he's got a nice little hoodwink line going on there. People such as the Telegraph "journalist" and others who go to his site must just believe him without going on to check his sources. They must be either lazy or stupid or will buy cheap sea side land that only gets wet twice a day. If they did check the links Homewood gives, it becomes very clear, very quickly, that Homewood also is not the least bit credible. Indeed. Most folks will not take the extra step that is needed these days to verify what they see online. Sigh. I used to think that full access to knowledge and verifiable facts online would create in informed citizenry. It depresses me if I think about it for too long. The Age of Enlightenment might never have happened given what I see of all of dumbing down that goes. Boy was I wrong. All it has done is give a stage to fools, liars and snake-oil purveyors. Well there is some great stuff too but the problem is that too many people don't seem capable of differentiating the crap from the superlative (or at least the acceptable). They could if they would bother acquiring the rudiments of critical thinking. I have always thought that some degree of critical thinking was such a basic life skill that everyone had it to some degree. "will I cross the road now with that car coming towards me at speed or will a wait a few seconds and cross when it has gone by?", "That person in Nigeria who is asking me for money in that email wants my bank details so what would they need them for and how would they use those details?", "It's still frosty each morning, will I plant my tomatoes outside?" Admittedly none of those are a challenge but for issues such as, say climate change or say, when the war in Iraq was mooted, then it often seems that any degree of sensible thinking goes out the window. But our whole capitalist-driven social structure (and I am a card-carrying capitalist but with a human heart!) is directed at creating an educational system [chuckle] whose aim is to turn out consumers of [often bad] products people don't really need, and [almost always bad] ideas that profit only Our Corporate Masters and their whore-lackeys in Congress. I also approve in general terms of Capitalism, but not of the sort of rampant greed and extreme consumption that some Capitalists think is OK. We are very well off in our retirement and that is due to the Capitalist system but we could certainly survive very happily on a lot less than we have coming in. With the greatest respect for NG members who try to engage climate change deniers, save your electrons. Deniers NEED this belief system! to give it up would damage their selves. Incidentally, do people realize there still exists a Flat Earth Society? LOL. You are probably right about both, but I suspect the Flat Earthers probably belong to that group with their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks. |
Scientists lie?
On 02/13/2015 08:59 PM, Bob F wrote:
Funny how the righties always accuse their opponents of have exactly their own worst faults. Rules for Radicals is your side's thing |
Scientists lie?
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 2:56:35 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/02/2015 11:32 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 6:13:03 AM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 1:43 PM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:55:37 +1100, Fran Farmer wrote: On 12/02/2015 2:02 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:32 -0800, T wrote: Did you notice that the source you cited got character assassinated? This is what happens when political correctness rules science (Lysenkoism). Your source was called out for his well-known agenda, his repeated denial of basic scientific facts and his overall lack of credibility. That "journalist" really is lacking in credibility but then if we go on to the links back to Homewood, The Tele source, at least it can be said that he put more effort into his hoodwinking than the "journalist". You've got to hand it to Homewood, he's got a nice little hoodwink line going on there. People such as the Telegraph "journalist" and others who go to his site must just believe him without going on to check his sources. They must be either lazy or stupid or will buy cheap sea side land that only gets wet twice a day. If they did check the links Homewood gives, it becomes very clear, very quickly, that Homewood also is not the least bit credible. Indeed. Most folks will not take the extra step that is needed these days to verify what they see online. Sigh. I used to think that full access to knowledge and verifiable facts online would create in informed citizenry. It depresses me if I think about it for too long. The Age of Enlightenment might never have happened given what I see of all of dumbing down that goes. Boy was I wrong. All it has done is give a stage to fools, liars and snake-oil purveyors. Well there is some great stuff too but the problem is that too many people don't seem capable of differentiating the crap from the superlative (or at least the acceptable). They could if they would bother acquiring the rudiments of critical thinking. I have always thought that some degree of critical thinking was such a basic life skill that everyone had it to some degree. "will I cross the road now with that car coming towards me at speed or will a wait a few seconds and cross when it has gone by?", "That person in Nigeria who is asking me for money in that email wants my bank details so what would they need them for and how would they use those details?", "It's still frosty each morning, will I plant my tomatoes outside?" Admittedly none of those are a challenge but for issues such as, say climate change or say, when the war in Iraq was mooted, then it often seems that any degree of sensible thinking goes out the window. But our whole capitalist-driven social structure (and I am a card-carrying capitalist but with a human heart!) is directed at creating an educational system [chuckle] whose aim is to turn out consumers of [often bad] products people don't really need, and [almost always bad] ideas that profit only Our Corporate Masters and their whore-lackeys in Congress. I also approve in general terms of Capitalism, but not of the sort of rampant greed and extreme consumption that some Capitalists think is OK. Guess we're on the same page. In theory, socialism is the ideal set-up -- just ask Karl Marx ("From each according to his ability, to each according to his need")-- but in practice the worst in human nature quickly emerges, leading to either collapse of the experiment* or its take-over by strong, dictatorial elements or personalities (Lenin et seq "the dictatorship of the proletariat") *History records numerous small socialist experiments in the US,, mostly ISTR in New England?, but they did not last. A fascinating field of study. We are very well off in our retirement and that is due to the Capitalist system but we could certainly survive very happily on a lot less than we have coming in. Is there a non sequitur in there? Straight question. With the greatest respect for NG members who try to engage climate change deniers, save your electrons. Deniers NEED this belief system! to give it up would damage their selves. Incidentally, do people realize there still exists a Flat Earth Society? LOL. You are probably right about both, but I suspect the Flat Earthers probably belong to that group with their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks. 'Fraid not. If you want a break from reality and/or a few laffs & tears, visit http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/ and click on their links (including maps!) Inter alia, Wikipedia has an article on the history of the movement. HB |
Scientists lie?
With the greatest respect for NG members who try to engage climate
change deniers, save your electrons. Deniers NEED this belief system! to give it up would damage their selves. Incidentally, do people realize there still exists a Flat Earth Society? LOL. You are probably right about both, but I suspect the Flat Earthers probably belong to that group with their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks. 'Fraid not. If you want a break from reality and/or a few laffs & tears, visit http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/ and click on their links (including maps!) Inter alia, Wikipedia has an article on the history of the movement. HB We are way OT now but just one more titbit before I behave myself. Some books for those who want to know mo "Merchants of Doubt" Oreskes & Conway, The lobby for tobacco and against climate change. "The Republican War of Science" Mooney, When politics controls not just opinions but data. "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 2:17:08 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
With the greatest respect for NG members who try to engage climate change deniers, save your electrons. Deniers NEED this belief system! to give it up would damage their selves. Incidentally, do people realize there still exists a Flat Earth Society? LOL. You are probably right about both, but I suspect the Flat Earthers probably belong to that group with their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks. 'Fraid not. If you want a break from reality and/or a few laffs & tears, visit http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/ and click on their links (including maps!) Inter alia, Wikipedia has an article on the history of the movement. HB We are way OT now but just one more titbit before I behave myself. Some books for those who want to know mo "Merchants of Doubt" Oreskes & Conway, The lobby for tobacco and against climate change. THE gold standard! Have read & re-read, and followed them on Frontline and other media. They not only have serious academic cred, but present information in digestible form which is what's required to get the attention of hoi polloi. As an early leader in the battle for non-smokers' rights back in the REALLY bad old days, I am very glad their work has received wide attention. "The Republican War of Science" Mooney, When politics controls not just opinions but data. Chris Mooney writes voluminously on environment. Not having read him myself, I can't say where he is on the (chuckle) political spectrum. "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
"This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. |
Scientists lie?
On 16/02/2015 6:29 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 2:56:35 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote: We are very well off in our retirement and that is due to the Capitalist system but we could certainly survive very happily on a lot less than we have coming in. Is there a non sequitur in there? Straight question. I'll reword it and let you be the judge. We live on private retirement income earned from our own efforts within a capitalist arrangement. If we relied on the Old Aged Pension, that, it could be argued would be form a socialist arrangement since it is paid to old people by the State. Our income comes as a result of paying into funds for our working lives, we also have income from investments. If got significantly less of the amount of money coming in that we currently do, we could still survive well with all our needs catered for. We would be happy and content in both circumstances but I doubt that we would be happy if we had to survive on the Old Age Pension. That is way too little money for comfort. |
Scientists lie?
On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 8:04:16 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. 1. My comment was not a "book review", useful or otherwise. 2. You are assuming I have not read it. 3. There is so much useful, FACT-BASED research out there on [topic] that I see no reason to reward by my recommendation a writer on Subject A who has taken sickeningly immoral positions on Subject B. People are all of a piece. A links to B. HB -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 1:44:45 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 16/02/2015 6:29 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 2:56:35 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote: We are very well off in our retirement and that is due to the Capitalist system but we could certainly survive very happily on a lot less than we have coming in. Is there a non sequitur in there? Straight question. I'll reword it and let you be the judge. We live on private retirement income earned from our own efforts within a capitalist arrangement. If we relied on the Old Aged Pension, that, it could be argued would be form a socialist arrangement since it is paid to old people by the State. Our income comes as a result of paying into funds for our working lives, we also have income from investments. If got significantly less of the amount of money coming in that we currently do, we could still survive well with all our needs catered for. We would be happy and content in both circumstances but I doubt that we would be happy if we had to survive on the Old Age Pension. That is way too little money for comfort. I hope you understand I wasn't prying!!!! Congratulations on a well-deserved retirement. HB |
Scientists lie?
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 8:04:16 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. 1. My comment was not a "book review", useful or otherwise. True 2. You are assuming I have not read it. Well have you read it or not? If so what did you think of it? Not the author, the book. 3. There is so much useful, FACT-BASED research out there on [topic] that I see no reason to reward by my recommendation a writer on Subject A who has taken sickeningly immoral positions on Subject B. People are all of a piece. A links to B. HB Nonsense. You are stuck in the groove that you don't like the author's position on some things therefore nothing they say is any value. Complete non sequitur. There is no link at all between A and B. In what way were her reflections on climate change not fact based? -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
Frank wrote:
On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On 2/17/2015 6:29 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Frank wrote: On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? Not did I read any of them, but why should I read any of them. |
Scientists lie?
Frank wrote:
On 2/17/2015 6:29 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? Not did I read any of them, but why should I read any of them. Only to be able to judge whether the conclusions were justified by the evidence presented, clearly not something you are too concerned about. You prefer to make snarky comments about them based on ignorance - which is of course your right. -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On 2/18/2015 8:05 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Frank wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:29 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? Not did I read any of them, but why should I read any of them. Only to be able to judge whether the conclusions were justified by the evidence presented, clearly not something you are too concerned about. You prefer to make snarky comments about them based on ignorance - which is of course your right. If this annoys you, it is fine by me. |
Scientists lie?
Frank wrote:
If this annoys you, it is fine by me. plonk -- David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Corporate propaganda is their protection against democracy |
Scientists lie?
On 19/02/2015 12:18 PM, Frank wrote:
On 2/18/2015 8:05 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:29 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? Not did I read any of them, but why should I read any of them. Only to be able to judge whether the conclusions were justified by the evidence presented, clearly not something you are too concerned about. You prefer to make snarky comments about them based on ignorance - which is of course your right. If this annoys you, it is fine by me. That snark was a good illustration of the very point that David was making. |
Scientists lie?
On 2/19/2015 5:49 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 19/02/2015 12:18 PM, Frank wrote: On 2/18/2015 8:05 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:29 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Frank wrote: On 2/15/2015 11:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote: Hypatia Nachshon wrote: "This Changes Everything" Klein, The relationship between growth, capitalism and climate denial. Klein is a vicious ideological opponent of Israel; inter alia, she is a proponent of the infamous BDS movement. She belongs to the lunatic far-far-Left fringe. There is a great deal of healthy writing out there to educate us without ingesting the ejaculations of this ideological "merchant of hate" HB I don't accept every word in any of the books I listed but I recommend them as presenting some good facts and some good ideas worth thinking about I am more interested in the ideas Klein presents on the specific topic than her general demeanour or its perception, or what she thinks of Israel. People we dislike can say good things and those we like can say bad things. The great Linus Pauling (the only person to get two Nobel Prizes in his own right) said a lot of crap about vitamin C. Expressing your loathing of the author of a book you haven't read is not a useful book review. Anyway back to radishes. I looked over your list of books and it is obvious from the titles what the conclusions are. #1 not obvious but you could probably make a fair guess. #2 really obvious #3 you must be a mind reader But aside from the facile observations that the content of many books has a relationship to their titles did you read any of them? Do you have any observations about whether they supported their conclusions or not, or do you make it a point to only read books that support your politics and pre-conceived ideas? Not did I read any of them, but why should I read any of them. Only to be able to judge whether the conclusions were justified by the evidence presented, clearly not something you are too concerned about. You prefer to make snarky comments about them based on ignorance - which is of course your right. If this annoys you, it is fine by me. That snark was a good illustration of the very point that David was making. Snark to u 2 |
Scientists lie?
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. |
Scientists lie?
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:04:47 -0800, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. Mornier's sources reject his claims. http://www.skepticalscience.com/Nils...evel-rise.html |
Scientists lie?
On 2/20/2015 8:04 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. Whether warming, cooling or neither, the science has been highly politicized mainly by those that are government control freaks, i.e. progressives/liberals. Just trying to point out that it is not beyond scientists to cherry pick data or even lie for their own advancement or for their political views. Having worked most of my life in R&D I found the majority of scientists bent to the left as if they had never left the university. |
Scientists lie?
On 02/20/2015 06:01 PM, Frank wrote:
On 2/20/2015 8:04 PM, T wrote: On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. Whether warming, cooling or neither, the science has been highly politicized mainly by those that are government control freaks, i.e. progressives/liberals. Just trying to point out that it is not beyond scientists to cherry pick data or even lie for their own advancement or for their political views. Having worked most of my life in R&D I found the majority of scientists bent to the left as if they had never left the university. The cherry picking drives me nuts. |
Scientists lie?
On 02/20/2015 06:01 PM, Frank wrote:
On 2/20/2015 8:04 PM, T wrote: On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. Whether warming, cooling or neither, the science has been highly politicized mainly by those that are government control freaks, i.e. progressives/liberals. Just trying to point out that it is not beyond scientists to cherry pick data or even lie for their own advancement or for their political views. Seen that myself. Having worked most of my life in R&D I found the majority of scientists bent to the left as if they had never left the university. Hi Frank, There was a study about 20 years ago that set to prove that countries that had low fat diets had less heart disease. He left out all the considerable data on counties where the had high fat diets and low heart disease. He even went so far as to make his test in Crete during Orthodox Lent, when the eat little meat, to prove his point. I don't remember the exact name of the study. We are still suffering from his fraud to this day. Global Warming has been around for long enough that the models have had time to pan out. They couldn't predict if the sun was to rise tomorrow they are so bad. But, as long as the endless funding continues ... Which Communist said that they would never try to take our freedom by force again, but rather they would convince us to give it to them willingly? Sounds like he is in full swing. -T |
Scientists lie?
On 02/20/2015 05:32 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:04:47 -0800, T wrote: On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html Hi Frank, Here is a fun read from the non-idealogical (non-religious) side of climate studies. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...not_rising.pdf "The President of Tuvalu continues to claim that his islands are being flooded. Yet the tide-gauge data provide clear indications of stability over the last 30 years (Mörner, 2007ac, 2010b; Murphy, 2007). In Vanuatu, the tide gauge indicates a stable sea level over the last 14 years (Mörner, 2007c) Great telemetry too That is only a tiny tid bit of the article. It sounds like Tuvalu has their hand out for money! -T Can't wait for Professor Nils-Axel Mörner to be called a known liar by the Lysenkoists, yada, yada, yada . (Then they will discover that -- surprise -- "-T" is actually "Todd!" Duh!!!) Religion and politics need to butt out of science. Mornier's sources reject his claims. http://www.skepticalscience.com/Nils...evel-rise.html That is to be expected. |
Scientists lie?
Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html And then, yhere's reality. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...icated-temper/ |
Scientists lie?
On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 10:45:05 PM UTC-7, Bob F wrote:
Frank wrote: Who would have thunk it? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html And then, yhere's reality. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...icated-temper/ Thanks, Bob F. for another mention of Politifact (I cited them under Subject "Pants on Fire" as one of the primo debunk sources for those not wedded to their beliefs in disregard of facts. Here's link to St. Petersburg Fl (yes, really, Florida!!!)* Pulitzer Prize** for Politifact's national reporting on, inter alia, 2008 election http://www.pulitzer.org/citation/200...onal-Reporting * FF (foreign friends) Florida is not, uh, the most "progressive" -- in the old, true, non-crazy sense -- State in the Union. **FF - you no doubt know that the Pulitzer Prize is THE honor that journalists and other of the written word aspire to. pulitzer.org Curious if your countries have something similar. HB |
Scientists lie?
On 16/03/2015 4:21 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
* FF (foreign friends) Florida is not, uh, the most "progressive" -- in the old, true, non-crazy sense -- State in the Union. Indeed. "Jeb Bush" says it all really. **FF - you no doubt know that the Pulitzer Prize is THE honor that journalists and other of the written word aspire to. Yes, we all know about that too. pulitzer.org Curious if your countries have something similar. Well our country does. It's called the Walkley Awards. There is an old saying: "When the US sneezes, the world catches a cold". In essence that means that the world watches, and reports on happenings in the US very closely. From comments I've sen over many years online, I'm not convinced that the reverse applies. To support my point, all you have to do is to read Cotton's letter to the Iranians and then read what the Iranian Foreign Minister wrote in response. One of those letters reads like it came from a smart, urbane informed person. The other letter reads like it comes from the pen of a parochial, patronising, ill informed person. |
Scientists lie?
Fran Farmer wrote:
.... To support my point, all you have to do is to read Cotton's letter to the Iranians and then read what the Iranian Foreign Minister wrote in response. One of those letters reads like it came from a smart, urbane informed person. The other letter reads like it comes from the pen of a parochial, patronising, ill informed person. i'm very convinced that the USoA could be governed much better by random selection than by what we get from mass-media driven erectoids. after 2 years there is a referendum on encumbents to continue, then if they pass that election of confirmation they have to pass a new referendum every 4 years. that way we keep the good ones, boot the bad ones, and have a truely representative government with nobody beholden to corporate campaign contributions. far more efficient, far more likely to get some decent people in office who aren't photogenic or ignorant nepotists. i'll take a random dud any time over the folks we seem to elect these days. oh, and as for pay and benefits, the longer you are in office the better your pay and health care percentages are, but you don't get a pension or anything any different than most USoAians. in other words, there's no reason the government should be paying someone's health care the rest of their life if they've only been in office a few years. instead they can contribute to an IRA or some other retirement slavings plan just like the rest of us... songbird |
Scientists lie?
On 16/03/2015 12:14 PM, songbird wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote: ... To support my point, all you have to do is to read Cotton's letter to the Iranians and then read what the Iranian Foreign Minister wrote in response. One of those letters reads like it came from a smart, urbane informed person. The other letter reads like it comes from the pen of a parochial, patronising, ill informed person. i'm very convinced that the USoA could be governed much better by random selection than by what we get from mass-media driven erectoids. after 2 years there is a referendum on encumbents to continue, then if they pass that election of confirmation they have to pass a new referendum every 4 years. that way we keep the good ones, boot the bad ones, and have a truely representative government with nobody beholden to corporate campaign contributions. far more efficient, far more likely to get some decent people in office who aren't photogenic or ignorant nepotists. i'll take a random dud any time over the folks we seem to elect these days. :-)) A friend of mine says frequently that politicians and governments are like underwear: they need to be changed often to stay fresh. I certianly see a lot of wisdom in that. oh, and as for pay and benefits, the longer you are in office the better your pay and health care percentages are, but you don't get a pension or anything any different than most USoAians. in other words, there's no reason the government should be paying someone's health care the rest of their life if they've only been in office a few years. instead they can contribute to an IRA or some other retirement slavings plan just like the rest of us... Indeed. We had a politician who 'retired' in his early 30s and he will live out the rest of his life on a very generous, fully indexed pension paid from public coffers and will never need to do another day's paid work in his life. Thankfully, there was such an outrage when his paid loungeing around at public expense became public that his former collegaues changed the pension arrangements for our Federal politicians. |
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