On 2/9/2015 8:30 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html



Hi Frank,

This may be the worst scandal in scientific history, but unfortunately
not the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

"Lysenkoism is used metaphorically to describe the manipulation
or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a
predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias,
often related to social or political objectives"

Anyone that disagreed with Lysenko simply disappeared. With
this scandal, you just get public ridicule and lose your job.

Politics needs to butt out of science.

-T

Exactly.

Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

Frank

Fran Farmer wrote:
songbird wrote:

perhaps Frank feels lonely now that Billy isn't around
to kick his butt once in a while?

Have you heard from Billy? I was just wondering what happened to him a
few days ago.

no, i've not heard anything from Billy in a long
time. i suspect he has gone to the great wild beyond.
i hope otherwise.


Fran, you have far more patience than i would ever
have in dealing with this sort of thing.

I worked for government for 40 years in one capacity or another and I
spent a lot of that time fighting bullshit and propaganda of one sort or
another. All governments try to spread it as does every money making
commercial enterprise. It goes by the name of 'policy' for government
and 'advertising' from commerce.

once you have a tax and spend system in place it
is very hard to get rid of it and everything else
gets plugged into it for the same reason. it is
as close to a self-perpetuating machine that we'll
ever see...


Before our Public Service took on the politicised form favoured by the
US, it was the duty of people such as myself to provide advice "without
fear or favour". That meant we were there to protect the interests of
the citizens of this country and not there just to serve government whim.

it isn't favored by most of us here. my
own version would be quite different if i had
my way (if i were king ).


The perpetuation of bullshit, and especially bullshit based on ignorance
or self interest, gets right up my left nostril. Climate Change denial
is bullshit.

yeah, and every delay in changing policy builds more
compound effects into the system. the skeptics may
complain about the costs of making changes but they
don't ever seem to notice how much it will cost to
move or replace the many trillions of dollars of
infrastructure and the lost and damaged land that will
come from even more sea level increases.

they are arguing about three peanuts in a truckload
not understanding that the truckload is coming down
upon their heads (delusional or magical thinking won't
stop it).


songbird

On 11/02/2015 12:55 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2015 8:30 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html




Hi Frank,

This may be the worst scandal in scientific history, but unfortunately
not the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

"Lysenkoism is used metaphorically to describe the manipulation
or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a
predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias,
often related to social or political objectives"

Anyone that disagreed with Lysenko simply disappeared. With
this scandal, you just get public ridicule and lose your job.

Politics needs to butt out of science.

-T

Exactly.

Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

More slurs and insinuations.

Do you have any (even halfway) reputable cites to support your slurs in
relation to the cupidity of scientists? And since we've been discussing
climate science, I'd be particularly interested to see some cites that
can stand up to even a cursory scrutiny on the culpability of climate
scientists.

On 2/10/2015 9:13 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 11/02/2015 12:55 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2015 8:30 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html





Hi Frank,

This may be the worst scandal in scientific history, but unfortunately
not the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

"Lysenkoism is used metaphorically to describe the manipulation
or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a
predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias,
often related to social or political objectives"

Anyone that disagreed with Lysenko simply disappeared. With
this scandal, you just get public ridicule and lose your job.

Politics needs to butt out of science.

-T

Exactly.

Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

More slurs and insinuations.

Do you have any (even halfway) reputable cites to support your slurs in
relation to the cupidity of scientists? And since we've been discussing
climate science, I'd be particularly interested to see some cites that
can stand up to even a cursory scrutiny on the culpability of climate
scientists.


I see no sense in arguing with an obvious religious/political zealot.

Frank wrote:
....
I see no sense in arguing with an obvious religious/political zealot.

when you posted that story what did you expect
to come from it that hasn't already been said?


songbird

In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in which
I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.


--
Drew Lawson I had planned to be dead by now, but
the schedule slipped, they do that.
-- Casady

On 11/02/2015 2:19 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/10/2015 9:13 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 11/02/2015 12:55 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2015 8:30 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html






Hi Frank,

This may be the worst scandal in scientific history, but unfortunately
not the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

"Lysenkoism is used metaphorically to describe the manipulation
or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a
predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias,
often related to social or political objectives"

Anyone that disagreed with Lysenko simply disappeared. With
this scandal, you just get public ridicule and lose your job.

Politics needs to butt out of science.

-T

Exactly.

Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

More slurs and insinuations.

Do you have any (even halfway) reputable cites to support your slurs in
relation to the cupidity of scientists? And since we've been discussing
climate science, I'd be particularly interested to see some cites that
can stand up to even a cursory scrutiny on the culpability of climate
scientists.


I see no sense in arguing with an obvious religious/political zealot.


No, you wouldn't see any sense in doing that because you can't. Slurs
and insinuations are your game but you don't even make sense when you
use them.

You and T have just been ranting on about 'keeping politics out of it'
and you even state that lies are used to please bosses. Shame that you
throw those comments in without being capable of applying that to your
own cite.

YOU posted the link to the Telegraph UK article and one simple google
search shows up both the politics behind that article (right wing,
conservative and Conservative Party) and the "please the bosses by
telling lies" role of the journalist.

YOU show all the signs of being a religious/political zealot. You
aren't prepared to investigate your beliefs nor to analyse what you do
post or to defend your stance based on evidence.

On 11/02/2015 8:17 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in which
I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.

T is Todd? Damn. I've been caught out by him nymshifting if that is
who he is. I'd stopped reading him because I decided he was a troll and
not a particularly smart one either.

Fran Farmer wrote:
On 11/02/2015 8:17 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in
which I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.

T is Todd? Damn. I've been caught out by him nymshifting if that is
who he is. I'd stopped reading him because I decided he was a troll
and not a particularly smart one either.

I was caught out too. Back in the bozo bin you go Todd. We established you
have nothing months ago and I won't waste the time of the group with you any
more.

--
David

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A better world requires a daily struggle
against those who would mislead us.

On 02/10/2015 05:53 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in which
I've seen him post. See his sig. line in this post above and in any of
the other posts he has made in the group.

Hi Fran,

I referred to "David Hare-Scott" and "Dave" as a
sign of familiarity. It was a compliment.

As far as debating you, I have done so in the past.
You can find all the cites you want on your own. Then
you can assassinate their characters all on your own
as well. Call them liars, etc.. Have fun.

My intention when writing "Dave" was to have a fun
conversation with someone with a different viewpoint.

-T

On 02/10/2015 01:17 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in which
I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.

Hi Drew,

I had a huge snafu with how I connect to the newgroups
that I will not go into. I chose "T" because I
thought everyone would recognize me as I always
sign off as "-T".

As far as killfiles go, again, I tried to make myself
easy to recognize. And quite frankly, I have lost
track of who does and doesn't like me. I did not
think it necessary to write them (if I even knew
who they were) and warn them to edit my name.

-T (A.K.A. Todd)

Religion and politics need to butt out of science.

On 02/10/2015 02:32 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 11/02/2015 8:17 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in which
I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.

T is Todd? Damn. I've been caught out by him nymshifting if that is
who he is. I'd stopped reading him because I decided he was a troll and
not a particularly smart one either.


Wow. I though everyone would figure it out instantly. Go
figure.

You should add me back to your kill file if you think that
of me.

On 02/10/2015 04:21 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
On 11/02/2015 8:17 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 10/02/2015 6:35 PM, T wrote:

Hi Dave,

He's never signed himself as "Dave" in this or any other forum in
which I've seen him post.

Changing names seems to be Todd's thing now.

As soon as I saw his changed handle, I wondered how many killfiles
he was trying to crawl out of.

T is Todd? Damn. I've been caught out by him nymshifting if that is
who he is. I'd stopped reading him because I decided he was a troll
and not a particularly smart one either.

I was caught out too. Back in the bozo bin you go Todd. We established
you have nothing months ago and I won't waste the time of the group with
you any more.


We have some fun with the gardening. But it is up to you
if differing opinions offend you.

On 02/10/2015 05:55 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2015 8:30 PM, T wrote:
On 02/08/2015 09:43 AM, Frank wrote:
Who would have thunk it?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html




Hi Frank,

This may be the worst scandal in scientific history, but unfortunately
not the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

"Lysenkoism is used metaphorically to describe the manipulation
or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a
predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias,
often related to social or political objectives"

Anyone that disagreed with Lysenko simply disappeared. With
this scandal, you just get public ridicule and lose your job.

Politics needs to butt out of science.

-T

Exactly.

Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

Frank

Hi Frank,

You and I are going to catch hell from the ideologues.
It is like discussing religion. Religion and politics
need to butt out of science.

Did you notice that the source you cited got character
assassinated? This is what happens when political correctness
rules science (Lysenkoism).

-T (A.K.A. Todd)

On 02/10/2015 06:13 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
Also having worked most of my life in R&D I can tell you that scientists
will lie to give their bosses the results they want and advance their
own careers.

More slurs and insinuations.

Hi Fran,

No "slurs and insinuations". I have seen this too. The
perpetrators call it the "Gravy Train". Anyone who rocks the
boat catches hell.

Instead of insulting him, why don't you ask him about
his experience. Then maybe share some of yours?

-T