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Old 19-11-2015, 07:42 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

As of 1 November, the 12 "key reservoirs" in California held only 23% of
their combined capacity. The average content as of that date is 56% of
capacity.

At this time of year, the reservoirs are normally low, waiting for the
spring and summer snow-melt to refill them. However, they currently
hold less than half the amount of water that they would normally hold.

Precipitation in the first month of the current rain-year -- which
started 1 October -- was below average at 16 weather stations. Two
stations were above average. Yosemite had 3.21 inches in October, 60%
above average; this should help the water supply for San Francisco.
Death Valley had 1.08 inches in October, more than 15 times the average
for the month.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:34 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

David E. Ross wrote:
As of 1 November, the 12 "key reservoirs" in California held only 23% of
their combined capacity. The average content as of that date is 56% of
capacity.

At this time of year, the reservoirs are normally low, waiting for the
spring and summer snow-melt to refill them. However, they currently
hold less than half the amount of water that they would normally hold.

Precipitation in the first month of the current rain-year -- which
started 1 October -- was below average at 16 weather stations. Two
stations were above average. Yosemite had 3.21 inches in October, 60%
above average; this should help the water supply for San Francisco.
Death Valley had 1.08 inches in October, more than 15 times the average
for the month.


i keep following the news and radars as the whole
system and situation are interesting.

the few recent storms that have gone through have
left the snow pack in the mountains above average and
they've opens ski resorts in some places early. this
is good and a welcome start to what may be a very
interesting time.

i also notice any mentions of rain water capture
projects that are being funded and put into place,
but really the entire state should be out en mass
putting in swales, seeps and sinks to capture rains
as much as possible. sure beats sitting around and
feeling like little can be done... some farmers
are ahead of the game and have already changed
their fields to act as ground water sinks if the
El Nino comes through.

if you need the inspiration go looking for John
Liu's movies about China's Loess Plateau and other
movies about wide scale landscape restoration
efforts around the world. they work if the people
will get out and do it.


songbird
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Old 19-11-2015, 10:10 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 11/19/2015 12:34 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:

[snipped]

i also notice any mentions of rain water capture
projects that are being funded and put into place,
but really the entire state should be out en mass
putting in swales, seeps and sinks to capture rains
as much as possible. sure beats sitting around and
feeling like little can be done... some farmers
are ahead of the game and have already changed
their fields to act as ground water sinks if the
El Nino comes through.


Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 20-11-2015, 06:00 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

David E. Ross wrote:
....rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.


that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird
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Old 20-11-2015, 07:23 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 11/20/2015 9:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.


that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird


I recently had my roof's rain gutters cleaned. The gunk removed would
likely be harmless to my garden but would definitely not be potable.
There were several years of ash fallout from brush fires and Italian
cypress needles from my neighbor's trees. I often hear squirrels
running across my roof, so I would not be surprised if the gunk included
squirrel droppings.

After a long period without rain, the public is advised to avoid Pacific
beaches near storm drain outlets. For the same reason, the first rain
on my roof -- even after having my gutters cleaned -- is not very good.

In the fall, I use large amounts of gypsum to make my clay soil more
porous. I also mechanically aerate "lawn" areas, which are NOT grass
but a drought-tolerant ground cover. All this is an attempt to capture
rainfall to irrigate my garden.

In 2005 during an exceptionally heavy rain storm, the hill in my back
yard failed. In repairing it, two concrete V-ditches were built. One
runs across the top of the slope and feeds into another that runs down
the middle to a catch box at the bottom. Additionally, drain lines were
buried at four levels across the slope. I questioned the fact that
three separate lines were to be installed to covey water from the slope
to cutouts in the curb at the street in front of my house: one from the
catch box and one each from the drain lines on the left side and right
side of the slope. I was told the county (from which I needed a grading
permit) would not approve allowing the water to flow into my garden. By
the way, the damage is not insurable; the cost of repairing my hill
amounted to four times what I paid to buy my house.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary


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Old 24-11-2015, 09:53 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 10:23:15 AM UTC-8, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/20/2015 9:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.


that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird


I recently had my roof's rain gutters cleaned. The gunk removed would
likely be harmless to my garden but would definitely not be potable.
There were several years of ash fallout from brush fires and Italian
cypress needles from my neighbor's trees. I often hear squirrels
running across my roof, so I would not be surprised if the gunk included
squirrel droppings.

After a long period without rain, the public is advised to avoid Pacific
beaches near storm drain outlets. For the same reason, the first rain
on my roof -- even after having my gutters cleaned -- is not very good.


What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?

HB

[...]

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Old 24-11-2015, 04:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
....
What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?


many rain capture systems include some sort of
arrangement for rejecting the first number of
gallons of water so that contamination (from
dust, bird droppings, etc.) is reduced. when
using the water for a garden most of what is
there isn't harmful anyways so i'd not worry.
the concern is more geared towards those in areas
of harmful dust fallout and those who are using
the water for drinking, cooking or other house-
hold uses.


songbird
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Old 24-11-2015, 05:02 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 11/24/2015 12:53 AM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 10:23:15 AM UTC-8, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/20/2015 9:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.

that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird


I recently had my roof's rain gutters cleaned. The gunk removed would
likely be harmless to my garden but would definitely not be potable.
There were several years of ash fallout from brush fires and Italian
cypress needles from my neighbor's trees. I often hear squirrels
running across my roof, so I would not be surprised if the gunk included
squirrel droppings.

After a long period without rain, the public is advised to avoid Pacific
beaches near storm drain outlets. For the same reason, the first rain
on my roof -- even after having my gutters cleaned -- is not very good.


What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?

HB

[...]


If there were recent brush fires dropping ash in your area, the first
rains will be quite alkaline. Our southern California soils are
generally too alkaline already. I am always using sulfur around many
plants in my garden to make the soil more acid.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 21/11/2015 5:23 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/20/2015 9:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.


that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird


I recently had my roof's rain gutters cleaned. The gunk removed would
likely be harmless to my garden but would definitely not be potable.
There were several years of ash fallout from brush fires and Italian
cypress needles from my neighbor's trees. I often hear squirrels
running across my roof, so I would not be surprised if the gunk included
squirrel droppings.


Hmmmm. I doubt whether any of that would be of concern to Australian
rural dwellers such as myself. We collect rain water from our roof and
although I have no idea what a squrrel poop looks like, bird poop is not
a problem and possum poo (not opossum) being from a marsupial is not
seen as a problem. Our roof water is used in our house (unfiltered and
untreated) for all the usual sorts of domestic activities.

After a long period without rain, the public is advised to avoid Pacific
beaches near storm drain outlets. For the same reason, the first rain
on my roof -- even after having my gutters cleaned -- is not very good.

In the fall, I use large amounts of gypsum to make my clay soil more
porous. I also mechanically aerate "lawn" areas, which are NOT grass
but a drought-tolerant ground cover. All this is an attempt to capture
rainfall to irrigate my garden.

In 2005 during an exceptionally heavy rain storm, the hill in my back
yard failed. In repairing it, two concrete V-ditches were built. One
runs across the top of the slope and feeds into another that runs down
the middle to a catch box at the bottom. Additionally, drain lines were
buried at four levels across the slope. I questioned the fact that
three separate lines were to be installed to covey water from the slope
to cutouts in the curb at the street in front of my house: one from the
catch box and one each from the drain lines on the left side and right
side of the slope. I was told the county (from which I needed a grading
permit) would not approve allowing the water to flow into my garden. By
the way, the damage is not insurable; the cost of repairing my hill
amounted to four times what I paid to buy my house.


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Old 25-11-2015, 10:43 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 25/11/2015 2:38 AM, songbird wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
...
What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?


many rain capture systems include some sort of
arrangement for rejecting the first number of
gallons of water so that contamination (from
dust, bird droppings, etc.) is reduced. when
using the water for a garden most of what is
there isn't harmful anyways so i'd not worry.
the concern is more geared towards those in areas
of harmful dust fallout and those who are using
the water for drinking, cooking or other house-
hold uses.


A friend of ours used to have a first flush diverter on his household
rainwater tank (cistern in USian) but took it off after a year or so
because he found it flushed away too much water and a short passing
shower would result in his not getting any water into his tank
(cistern). And dust or crap settles to the bottom of the tank in a very
short time and is not a worry until it becomes time to desludge the
tank. the tank (cistern) was to supply water for all his household use
so the loss of any water was a problem.



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Old 25-11-2015, 11:58 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

On 11/25/2015 4:38 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 21/11/2015 5:23 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/20/2015 9:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...rainwater capture, swales, seeps, soaks, etc...
Where I live, the soils are so mineralized that any ground water
(including captured rain) is unfit for agricultural use, let alone
domestic use. We do have seeps and springs in the area. During a
drought about 30 years ago, however, a study determined that mixing only
one part of ground water with nine parts of California Water Project
water would yield something that would be illegally tainted.

that sounds rather extreme, but i'd assume
the native plants manage.

rainwater capture in barrels and lined ponds would
be another option for such an extreme case. water
right from the roof and other hard surfaces would
avoid most of the problem.


songbird


I recently had my roof's rain gutters cleaned. The gunk removed would
likely be harmless to my garden but would definitely not be potable.
There were several years of ash fallout from brush fires and Italian
cypress needles from my neighbor's trees. I often hear squirrels
running across my roof, so I would not be surprised if the gunk included
squirrel droppings.


Hmmmm. I doubt whether any of that would be of concern to Australian rural
dwellers such as myself. We collect rain water from our roof and although
I have no idea what a squrrel poop looks like, bird poop is not a problem
and possum poo (not opossum) being from a marsupial is not seen as a
problem. Our roof water is used in our house (unfiltered and untreated)
for all the usual sorts of domestic activities.

snip...

Even if there were concerns about the quality of collected water for
consumption the cost of equipment needed to clean it up, at least in
smallish quantities, is not extreme. There are pathogens in every sort of
excreta and what is there and what it will do is pretty hit-and-miss for
any individual. For the garden, I'd say that anything goes since what is
coming from the roof is exactly what would have fallen on the garden.

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Old 26-11-2015, 02:41 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Fran Farmer wrote:

Hmmmm. I doubt whether any of that would be of concern to Australian
rural dwellers such as myself. We collect rain water from our roof and
although I have no idea what a squrrel poop looks like, bird poop is not
a problem and possum poo (not opossum) being from a marsupial is not
seen as a problem. Our roof water is used in our house (unfiltered and
untreated) for all the usual sorts of domestic activities.


Is that to say the water isn't even boiled before drinking it?

bob prohaska

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Old 27-11-2015, 12:28 AM posted to rec.gardens
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On 26/11/2015 12:41 PM, User Bp wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:

Hmmmm. I doubt whether any of that would be of concern to Australian
rural dwellers such as myself. We collect rain water from our roof and
although I have no idea what a squrrel poop looks like, bird poop is not
a problem and possum poo (not opossum) being from a marsupial is not
seen as a problem. Our roof water is used in our house (unfiltered and
untreated) for all the usual sorts of domestic activities.


Is that to say the water isn't even boiled before drinking it?


No. I've lived rurally for over 50 years of my life and the vast
majority of people who live outside towns or villages collect rainwater
off the roof for use in the house. I've never heard of anyone getting
sick from it or installing any treatment system.

I have heard of local villages advising residents to boil water before
use. Those village uses ground water and it's more suspect IME than
rainwater.
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Old 27-11-2015, 07:45 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default The California Drought

Fran Farmer wrote:
....
A friend of ours used to have a first flush diverter on his household
rainwater tank (cistern in USian) but took it off after a year or so
because he found it flushed away too much water and a short passing
shower would result in his not getting any water into his tank
(cistern). And dust or crap settles to the bottom of the tank in a very
short time and is not a worry until it becomes time to desludge the
tank. the tank (cistern) was to supply water for all his household use
so the loss of any water was a problem.


that must be a fun job!

in a place where there are distinct rainy seasons it
would probably be worth letting the first rains
go with the diverter on and then after things are
rinsed off it could be turned off.

my sister had to have their cistern cleaned out as
when it was installed the contractor put it down too
deep and when they weren't around the top lip got filled
over and then a lot of stuff got in so they had to
get the gunk out and put on a taller lip and ... they're
all set up now and have actual heat and running water.
been a long road for her with the property and having
enough $ to put up a house and have it habitable. now
she finally has a place away from the city like she's
always wanted.

i don't think they have rain water collection set up
yet which will be a shame as it will be a higher likely
rainfall year with El Nino. her partner is a gardener
and also is learning how to forage and prepare native
plants. still haven't met him yet (it's a long haul
from here to there and i hate flying).


songbird
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Old 27-11-2015, 07:54 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Fran Farmer wrote:
User Bp wrote:

....
Is that to say the water isn't even boiled before drinking it?


No. I've lived rurally for over 50 years of my life and the vast
majority of people who live outside towns or villages collect rainwater
off the roof for use in the house. I've never heard of anyone getting
sick from it or installing any treatment system.

I have heard of local villages advising residents to boil water before
use. Those village uses ground water and it's more suspect IME than
rainwater.


yeah, living a long ways from larger cities the air
is likely to be much cleaner. i think i'd be ok
sometimes but other times (after high winds and a lot
of dust or times when they're spraying crops) i'd much
prefer to drink well water.

in my continued studies i'm seeing more and more
reports of septic systems not really doing much at all
and so for the longer term a better method should be
adopted. it's really a shame that so much good stuff
for plants is being wasted.


songbird
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